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  • Wayne State loss

    USD 92
    Wayne St 75

    Wayne St 82
    SDSU 65

    Making South Dakota look bad come on jacks!!! Two in a row to D-2 schools at home. All the people on the smack board talking about USD going to the GPAC maybe the SDSU mens basketball team should be thinking about going tothe GPAC

  • #2
    Re: Wayne State loss

    welcome aboard coyote fan

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    • #3
      Re: Wayne State loss

      Yes, you're exactly right, usdcoyotes. We're having a bad mens basketball season, so we should reconsider the entire DI thing. Good thinking. Somebody get in touch with the athletic director and president. They'll want to know about usdcoyotes' excellent suggestion. Thanks so much.[/sarcasm]

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      • #4
        Re: Wayne State loss

        Should be surprised by the usdcoyote post? I for one am not. When SDSU does have success with a D1 opponent, such as Tennessee state, we get this "You should have beat them, they only as good as the NAIA school called Fisk, who lost in a OT to TSU. Then if we get really wacked, then it shows we are a big failure for moving up to D1. Either way SDSU is a failure in the eyes of USD fans etc. To those in Vermillion, I suggest look home ward. I hope that Math professor wins is case and Jim Abbott has to pay out of his pocket.

        http://www.argusleader.com/news/Thursdayarticle5.shtml

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        • #5
          Re: Wayne State loss

          Originally posted by usdcoyotes
          All the people on the smack board talking about USD going to the GPAC=
          The talk about USD going to the GPAC had nothing to do with ability. It had more to do with where are you going to go after UND moves up to D-I, UNO moves over to the MIAA, St. Cloud and MSU-M move over to the NSIC. A logical choice would be for USD to follow Augie over to the GPAC. We were just trying to help.

          Go State! ;D

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          • #6
            Re: Wayne State loss

            SDSU is meeting reasonable expectations, by any objective measure. Those who mock SDSU are probably aware of this.

            Moving to D-I is not easy, but most worthwhile things are not easy. A team moving up to D-I can reasonably expect to play as an independent for a few years and to take a lot of lumps in the transition. Getting a D-I victory in the first year is frankly a bonus.

            And, in other sports, SDSU is far exceeding reasonable expectations.

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            • #7
              Re: Wayne State loss

              Funny how the Yotes fans didn't hit the board with these types of messages when the State football team cracked the top 25 in the Sports Illustrated I-AA poll. Or when the Jackrabbit women cagers went toe to toe with a top 20 program.

              Message to USD naysayers -- Don't knock it until you've tried it. Most Jacks fans are very pleased with the transition and excited as hell about the future. So, when you get to watch the Coyotes play Upper Iowa or Peru State or whoever else may be the foe on September 24, 2005, I'll be in Washington-Grizzly stadium with 23,000+ other screaming I-AA fans cheering on my alma mater. Hope you have fun, because I sure as hell will.

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              • #8
                Re: Wayne State loss

                Originally posted by SDSUFAN
                I hope that Math professor wins is case and Jim Abbott has to pay out of his pocket.

                http://www.argusleader.com/news/Thursdayarticle5.shtml
                That situation is ridiculous. Universities are supposed to be bastions of free speech and diversity of opinion. Of course we should all be aware that there is no expectation of privacy in email. But to read personal emails, and use them as a basis for terminating a tenure-track faculty member's contract subverts the whole idea of academic freedom. Shame on USD.

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                • #9
                  Re: Wayne State loss

                  Originally posted by usdcoyotes
                  USD 92
                  Wayne St 75

                  Wayne St 82
                  SDSU 65

                  Making South Dakota look bad come on jacks!!! Two in a row to D-2 schools at home. All the people on the smack board talking about USD going to the GPAC maybe the SDSU mens basketball team should be thinking about going tothe GPAC
                  We gotta take our lumps here boys. This is more than a little embarassing for SDSU. That said, a loss is a loss and no more than that. Time to get back on the horse. As they say, "A quitter never wins and a winner never quits."
                  We are here to add what we can to life, not get what we can from life. -Sir William Osler

                  We do not see things as they are, we see things as we are.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Wayne State loss

                    Originally posted by OK_Jackrabbit

                    That situation is ridiculous. Universities are supposed to be bastions of free speech and diversity of opinion. Of course we should all be aware that there is no expectation of privacy in email. But to read personal emails, and use them as a basis for terminating a tenure-track faculty member's contract subverts the whole idea of academic freedom. Shame on USD.
                    You don't know what you are talking about. You read one article on the situation. His contract was terminated because he was a poor professor, not because of his emails. I'm glad to see that USD has the guts to get rid of a bad professor, a lot of schools don't. Kudos to USD.

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                    • #11
                      Re: Wayne State loss

                      Originally posted by mrsports

                      You don't know what you are talking about. You read one article on the situation. His contract was terminated because he was a poor professor, not because of his emails. I'm glad to see that USD has the guts to get rid of a bad professor, a lot of schools don't. Kudos to USD.
                      I suspect neither of you are privy to all the information. Fact, the prof has filed a suit citing violation of his privacy. If the U did this then they have a problem regardless of his ability as a professor.

                      Are you sure you're a mr, mrsports, you seem to think more like a lad.
                      We are here to add what we can to life, not get what we can from life. -Sir William Osler

                      We do not see things as they are, we see things as we are.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Wayne State loss

                        Originally posted by mrsports

                        You don't know what you are talking about. You read one article on the situation. His contract was terminated because he was a poor professor, not because of his emails. I'm glad to see that USD has the guts to get rid of a bad professor, a lot of schools don't. Kudos to USD.
                        Clearly, you have no idea what you are talking about. First of all, I have friends who are professors at USD, and have heard quite a bit about this case. Second, I'm a professor myself, so let me explain how this system works. There is this concept called academic freedom. It's important because it keeps anyone from telling professors how to teach, what to teach, or what kinds of inquiry is off limits in their research. The tenure process is designed to give assistant professors (do I have to explain rank to you, too?) feedback constantly, and to protect them so they cannot be dismissed because students, peers, administrators or anybody else just doesn't like them. For the first six years of your work, you are constantly evaluated for three things: Teaching, research, service.

                        There is a third-year review, at which time "bad professors" tend to be let go. I note that didn't occur in this case. What makes a professor bad? Typically students' impressions (like the one you have offered) are not a major part of that determination. Students, after all, want A's, particularly in these days of grade inflation. If they dislike and rank a professor poorly, that would be reflected on each annual review, but it is only one part of a professor's performance. And often it is meaningless since it could just indicate that students are disappointed in their grades. Student evaluations are useful to professors to figure out what they're doing poorly, but they're a lousy indicator of the quality of a professor's work. And it's not just about teaching. Service and research count as much, and even more in some cases.

                        At a school like USD, teaching is about 50 percent of your evaluation. Service and research are about 25 percent each. I would bet that 90 percent or more of those who go up for tenure at USD get it. The whole point is there aren't any surprises in that sixth year when you have to go up for evaluation by your peers, by the university, by the administration, and by the Board of Regents. If you get to the sixth year, in most cases, you're going to get tenure and be promoted to associate professor.

                        From what I have heard and read, it sounds to me like there was a personality conflict between this professor and his supervising department chair (also a professor). He has filed grievances and complaints with several organizations, causing the university administration to become annoyed with him. The university siezed on the emails as evidence suggesting insubordination and basically decided he wasn't worth the trouble. Of course that's exactly in opposition to the idea of academic freedom. Why would they have decided to read his emails a decision no organization takes lightly as it scares your other employees unless they were fishing for something to 'get' him with?

                        Here's why this sort of thing matters: It is already difficult enough to get quality, Ph.D. professors to come to smaller universities with greater teaching loads (three or four courses each semester, rather than two like at larger universities). A story like this gets around in academic circles, and will make qualified people think twice about coming to USD, or staying at USD. They'll see the job announcement, ask a few people who'll tell them there's a problem at USD, and skip it. Or they'll start to wonder who's read their emails or who they have angered and will just go somewhere else.

                        That would hurt USD, but it would also hurt the other South Dakota schools, since they operate under the same Board of Regents. Quality education doesn't just happen. And universities are not businesses where you can hire or fire as you please (something Jim Abbott, with no academic background might not understand.) This is a free speech issue, an issue of academic freedom, and to me those things are worth defending against the corporate mentality that is increasingly encroaching into academe.

                        End of rant.

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                        • #13
                          Re: Wayne State loss

                          I like how professors think that once they get to their sixth year they should just be given tenure. The fact is the students all thought he sucked and so did his department chair. My son got an A in his class but he was the worst professor he ever had and many share his feelings. I don't care the reason USD got rid of him, but I am damn glad they did. Abbott makes the tough decisions that other Presidents don't have the balls to make. The Dept. Chair, Dr. Keller, is a very respectable person and someone whose opinion I value highly. She obviously shares my opinion. If other professors like him are scared off because of this then I see it as a good thing. He was far from a good professor and USD is better off without him.
                          When did it become academic freedom to complain about your boss anyway. I know if I was to complain about my boss to everybody I probably wouldn't last too long either.

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                          • #14
                            Re: Wayne State loss

                            You do seem to complain a lot, Mr. Sports.

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                            • #15
                              Re: Wayne State loss

                              Mr. Sports: take your USD internal staffing problems to your USD smack board.

                              Let's play ball.

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