Wayne State loss

[mrsports]

Re: Wayne State loss

Mr. Sports: take your USD internal staffing problems to your USD smack board.

Let's play ball.

I gladly will. Do notice that I wasn't the one who brought this topic up. I figured it would be free game to talk about whatever you guys were talking about in this thread. You had a good point that this shouldn't be talked about here, I think you just addressed it to the wrong person though. Tell the person who posted it here in the first place.

[OK_Jackrabbit]

Re: Wayne State loss

The fact is the students all thought he sucked and so did his department chair. My son got an A in his class but he was the worst professor he ever had and many share his feelings. . . .
When did it become academic freedom to complain about your boss anyway. I know if I was to complain about my boss to everybody I probably wouldn't last too long either.

Here's a quick, textbook definition of academic freedom that might help you understand why pressure from donors, the level of annoyance on the part of the cable-television-mogul/university-president or some students' assertions that a professor "sucks" might not be a good ways to determine whether a tenure-track professor stays or goes:

"Academic freedom is the opportunity for teachers and students to learn, teach, study, research, and question without censorship, coercion, or external political and other restrictive influence."

I could explain how faculties are self-governing and exist essentially as distinct units separate from the central administration of a university. I could explain how department chairs are just professors chosen to handle administrative duties and not "bosses" with hiring and firing powers. I could explain how free speech, including the freedom to criticize your supervisor or somebody else's research, or the administration of the university itself, is a basic tenet of academe.

I'll stop, though, since the First Amendment seems important to you only if it doesn't infringe on your child's enjoyment of college.

I brought this up as an aside on this thread. But I wanted to answer mrsports uninformed opinion not because I care what he thinks, but because this kind of thing can impact SDSU, and I care about that. People will pass on jobs at South Dakota universities if this sort of thing takes hold.

Let's talk sports.

[mrsports]

Re: Wayne State loss

Here's a quick, textbook definition of academic freedom that might help you understand why pressure from donors, the level of annoyance on the part of the cable-television-mogul/university-president or some students' assertions that a professor "sucks" might not be a good ways to determine whether a tenure-track professor stays or goes:

"Academic freedom is the opportunity for teachers and students to learn, teach, study, research, and question without censorship, coercion, or external political and other restrictive influence."

I could explain how faculties are self-governing and exist essentially as distinct units separate from the central administration of a university. I could explain how department chairs are just professors chosen to handle administrative duties and not "bosses" with hiring and firing powers. I could explain how free speech, including the freedom to criticize your supervisor or somebody else's research, or the administration of the university itself, is a basic tenet of academe.

I'll stop, though, since the First Amendment seems important to you only if it doesn't infringe on your child's enjoyment of college.

I brought this up as an aside on this thread. But I wanted to answer mrsports uninformed opinion not because I care what he thinks, but because this kind of thing can impact SDSU, and I care about that. People will pass on jobs at South Dakota universities if this sort of thing takes hold.

Let's talk sports.

I like how you go on another page long rant about why USD should have retained the crappy professor and then finish it up with "lets talk sports." The bottom line is USD got rid of a bad professor. You can criticize them all you want and go into your long rants about academe, but the fact of the matter is he was a bad professor and USD got rid of him. Now lets see if you can follow your own advice and talk sports.

[jackrabbit1979]

Re: Wayne State loss

How do you like those apples Mr. Sports.
My friend (OK JACK) is wicked smart.

*****The above was said with a heavy Bostonian Accent
for all you movie buffs.

[SDSUFAN]

Re: Wayne State loss

Ok Rabbit:
Thanks for your explanation of academic freedom. I dont think the professor has a frivilous law suit here at all.
I would suggest that the Board of Regents check their bank account and prepare for liquidated damages.

This happen once before when their incompetent AD(Jack Doyle) fired several women's coaches, and the BOR had to pony up liquid damages then when the fired coaches took USD to court. Go to the archives of the Yankton Press and Dakotan and you find the press on that affair.

I would rather talk sports, but I think the USD community needs a turn in the barrel, as they have had a free ride with the negative publicty that SDSU has gotten recently. ;D

[SDsportsFan]

Re: Wayne State loss

You are right, the professor might be able to win this case. Several years back a USD volleyball coach was fired from her coaching position after not winning a conference game for a couple of years. She was able to keep her job in the department of education. I remember thinking there was no way she would recover a dime, but somehow she was able to. If she was able to win her case then I have to think this professor has a chance. If you can't fire a coach for being a bad coach then the same rules might apply to professors.

[Rabbitlivinginverm]

Re: Wayne State loss

Seems this is gaining some momentum down south...

Staff editorial
USD should be careful not to appear corporate
By Editorial Board
Published: Wednesday, January 26, 2005
Article Tools: Page 1 of 1

The lawsuit filed by former physics professor Christopher Keating against the University of South Dakota will undoubtedly have a negative effect on the university. While all lawsuits can be financially and emotionally damaging, those that occur within an organization can be particularly painful.

As journalists, we have an obligation to remain objective on this matter. However, when Keating says that the University will "try to wear (him) down," it echoes a legitimate concern that many litigants who try to take on major establishments are forced to face. To sue a former employer is difficult, but when that employer has the power of a corporation at its disposal, the task becomes nearly insurmountable.

It's logical to use all of your resources when called into a legal conflict. We do not expect the university to offer a mediocre effort in an attempt to offer financial equilibrium to Keating. However, we understand and appreciate that Keating is entering the legal arena with resources that pale in comparison to the capabilities of USD.

It is up to a judge to decide what entity acted inappropriately. However, the university has an ethical responsibility to conduct themselves in an appropriate manner that allows for due process without financial domination. It is hoped that this suit will be resolved quickly. Should the university utilize their resources in an attempt to prolong the case until the point when Keating can no longer afford to continue, they will cease to appear as an educational institution and instead represent themselves as a corporate entity.

This is not an image that the University of South Dakota needs. Considering the amount of money invested to pique scholarly interest in the university, the portrayal of USD, Inc. would not only discourage prospective students and employees but cause resentment in present students while instilling a fear of the "higher-ups" within current employees.

Another article...
http://www.volanteonline.com/news/84...ml?mkey=635194

[ckeating]

Re: Wayne State loss

I'm surprised to see how much attention I got in this forum, especially considering it is supposed to be about SDSU athletics. I would like to set the record straight on a few things.

First, I was not fired for being a 'bad professor' as has been stated. My contract was non-renewed because I supposedly violated the civility clause of the collective bargaining agreement. This is a clause in faculty contracts that says everyone must be nice to each other.

My legal actions do not claim my privacy was violated. I have never made that complaint. What I am claiming are three things:

1) The civility clause is unconstitutional. The U.S. Supreme Court has been very clear about this and so-called speech codes have been routinely and regularly struck down by the courts as being unconstitutiona. In fact, I cannot find a single case where speech codes were not struck down.

2) Their action was unconstitutional because I made my comment in the privacy of my own home and on my own time on a Saturday morning. The government does not have the authority to regulate what people say in the privacy of their own homes and on their own time.

3) The true reason I was dismissed was in retaliation for a grievance I filed against Keller the previous fall (2003). I have a long list of events that began right after I filed the grievance showing retaliation. Evidence I have includes an email by Abbott where he calls for a meeting with the administration people to discuss 'how we're going to deal with Keating.'

As far as being a bad professor, this is simply not supported by the facts. Prior to my fall 2003 grievance against Keller, I was always rated as 'Exceeding Expectations'. Keller herself put in my performance evaluation that my student evaluations were among the highest of all physics professors in South Dakota. Other sources told me I was the single highest rated physics professor in South Dakota. Administration people told me several times that I was one of the most popular professors on campus. These comments came from the same people that were in the process of firing me, so they had no reason to say this if it wasn't true.

As for the 'A' student that hated me, all I can say is that I taught hundreds of students every semester. Not everyone is going to like you. On the other side of that argument are the dozens of notes and emails from students telling me I was the best professor they ever had. I would have former students come up to me while I was in town and tell me the same thing.

As for Christina Keller, I could say many things about her but I'll limit myself to what she said about herself, "The more people get to know me the less they like me." Everything I have seen confirms that she made an accurate assessment of herself.

These are the facts, whether you agree with my lawsuit or not.

Chris Keating

[MilwaukeeJacksAlum]

Re: Wayne State loss

I'm surprised to see how much attention I got in this forum, especially considering it is supposed to be about SDSU athletics.

I think it's a little odd you spent the time and energy to come on said forum to defend your lawsuit. I know nothing of the lawsuit and really don't have an opinion, but lots of things are discussed on this board beyond athletics. You happened to be one of them. File a lawsuit against one of the state's biggest universities and the subject will probably come up now and again.

[filbert]

Re: Wayne State loss

I'd suggest that if there is anything else that needs to be discussed regarding Prof. Keating's case, that a new thread be started, rather than continuing on this one. It's probably an issue that, if it needs further discussion at all, probably should not be in a smack forum.

I certainly don't begrudge Keating his post here, and am personally willing to let it be the more-or-less last word for now. On that basis I think I'll lock this thread.