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**jackrabbit1979** · 10-28-2005, 06:48 PM

Re: UND looking at D-I again

Craig and Mike ranted and raved about this subject for about half of their show today. They were dead set against UND moving up and really said some nasty stuff as to why UND would do this to the rest of the NCC. Nevermind the fact that a university has to look out for themselves if the rest of thier peers are too small minded to see what is happening in D2.

Mike went on to say UND probaly could make it in D1 and he can see them and NDSU teaming up and throwing SDSU under the bus. He didn't hesitate to take subtle jabs at SDSU and Brookings' ablility to make it at the D1 level through all the talk. Craig made a joke as to UND hiring Carr and associates to help them...which i don't quite understand because i would assume most would say NDSU and SDSU are in a better place now then they were in D2 and might like their situation a litlle better than what the rest of the NCC is now facing. All together they were worried what was going to happen to USD and their precious Augie (who along with USF's game at Nebraska Weslyan :

they seemed to feature as the football games of the weekend). I eventually quit listening as they were talking about USF and Morningside rejoining the NCC if UND moves.

I don't mean to make jabs at the show, because i do enjoy the sports banter. But they are blatantly anti-SDSU and everything that came with the D1 move. Even when they are talking positively about SDSU they get their cheapshots in. I don't really want them to change because i do respect the fact that each journalist has their opinion... maybe we need another sports talk show in SD.

**jack100** · 10-28-2005, 07:52 PM

Re: UND looking at D-I again

1570 am - Even though Lane Grindle is Mr. USD his show is very good. Much more entertaining than the 1230 am 3:00 pm show or for that matter 910 am 9:00 am sports show.

**bisonmike** · 10-29-2005, 07:57 AM

Re: UND looking at D-I again

The only reason this is being brought up is because of the new AD. He's been getting pressure from UND alumi to make this move because of the success that NDSU and SDSU are having. They'll do their study, the study will tell them that they should move up only with a conference, they won't have to balls (nor financial capability) to move up and this issue will die until more UND alumni bring it up in 5 more years. And this will be the cycle for about 10 or 15 years or until UND gets a President who genuinely has a vision for the university instead of one who constantly does things out of spite.

**jackrabit1** · 10-31-2005, 12:15 PM

Re: UND looking at D-I again

Personally, I think the entire NCC should bite the bullet and make the jump to DI. Just from reading what some of the NCC schools spend on athletics, and from the traditional strength of the conference, it would appear that they are already Division I-caliber, if not in name.

Instead of trying to recruit all over the country for new members, the NCC should "take the plunge" and make the move...come on in, the water's fine!

**Rabbit_FB_Alum** · 10-31-2005, 01:08 PM

Re: UND looking at D-I again

Originally posted by jackrabit1

Personally, I think the entire NCC should bite the bullet and make the jump to DI. Just from reading what some of the NCC schools spend on athletics, and from the traditional strength of the conference, it would appear that they are already Division I-caliber, if not in name.

Instead of trying to recruit all over the country for new members, the NCC should "take the plunge" and make the move...come on in, the water's fine!

The only problem with this is that what is left of the NCC, only UND could make the jump. The calibur of the NCC has really gone down hill in the last few years along with all D2 across the board. I mean Auggie D1??? Now that is funny!

**OK_Jackrabbit** · 10-31-2005, 01:23 PM

Re: UND looking at D-I again

Originally posted by Rabbit_FB_Alum

The only problem with this is that what is left of the NCC, only UND could make the jump. �The calibur of the NCC has really gone down hill in the last few years along with all D2 across the board. �I mean Auggie D1??? �Now that is funny!

Usually, we hear rumors that Augie is moving down a division, not up.

**Mike_H** · 10-31-2005, 03:38 PM

Re: UND looking at D-I again

79 is partially true in his post, but there needs to be a couple of qualifications. We had Jeff Kolpak on from Fargo giving us his thoughts on it, and talked about it for maybe 20 minutes.

I do not know what he is talking about when he mentions my subtle jabs at SDSU, but I understand everyone hears with their own ears and their own thoughts. I was quite complimentary of SDSU and the way they went about the move. They told everyone they were looking at it, they made the decision, and they moved. They were open and honest with the conference from the beginning of the process until the day of the announcement of the move, which in my mind is the way it should be.

UND has been swaying in the wind, and I am getting sick of it. I just don't see this as a good way to treat your business partners, which is what a conference is. I understand that things change, but have they changed so much from the last study you did less than a year ago that you feel compelled to study it again?

Regarding the comments about the possible move by UND having an effect on SDSU: can you tell me that any given conference would NOT look at UND and NDSU as a better pair to add than SDSU and NDSU? I don't know the answer, which is why I brought it up. I also added that this could be good for SDSU as it would give a conference 3 viable additions instead of 2, making this area more attractive for expansion, and maybe a conference like the Big Sky another reason to look into having an east and a west division. 79 failed to mention that.

A couple of other notes. It was a caller that brought up USF and Morningside joining the NCC, not us. Also, we are the station that USF games are broadcast on, so we talk to the pbp guy each Friday afternoon. As for Craig's Carr report comment, I didn't get that either.

**gojacksgo** · 10-31-2005, 04:23 PM

Re: UND looking at D-I again

I'm siding with Mike on this one. I listened to most of the show that day and couldn't really find anything that was a "jab" at SDSU. I had a big reply ready a couple days ago, but decided not to post it, but echoes alot of the things Mike has said now. I'm a Jacks fan, but I sure didn't hear anything bad said about them. Mike isn't for the move, but there's no need to put words in his mouth.

**89rabbit** · 10-31-2005, 09:06 PM

Re: UND looking at D-I again

Originally posted by Mike_H

Regarding the comments about the possible move by UND having an effect on SDSU: can you tell me that any given conference would NOT look at UND and NDSU as a better pair to add than SDSU and NDSU? I don't know the answer, which is why I brought it up.

Sure this one is easy.

Let's start with TV markets. By adding SDSU and NDSU you are adding the # 116 (Sioux Falls) and # 118 (Fargo) TV markets in the country. You would also be adding two States to your conference alignment. Since South Dakota only has one D-I University (in this scenario ND has two) you could very well look at adding most of the entire state of South Dakota which has a larger population base then North Dakota to begin with. To put it another way SDSU would have the most upside, between the three schools, because South Dakota's larger population would not be divided by a second D-I school. So adding UND and NDSU gives you the entire ND market but you have given up the larger SD market to do so.

Next let's talk about Basketball. At the end of the day from a Mid-Major prospective basketball is king and I don't think I need to go into any great detail as to why again SDSU has the most upside of the three Universities.

Another point is that UND is already two full years behind NDSU and SDSU in the transition process and this gap grows wider every day. So by adding SDSU and NDSU you would also have playoff eligible schools sooner then a UND/NDSU addition.

What are the advantages of adding both UND and NDSU and excluding SDSU? You get a better I-AA football pairing (although SDSU is showing much improvment on the football front) but you lose the best basketball school of the three. You lock down the ND TV market but you lose the entire South Dakota market. You do get two schools that are a little closer together (NDSU to UND 81.59 miles - NDSU to SDSU 190.12 miles), however UND is the farthest north of the three. If the Dakota are sometimes perceived as being isolated why add the combo that has the school that is the most remote? You would get a great hockey arena by adding UND, but that won't matter to many conferences.

Finally by adding the Bison and the Jackrabbits rather then the Fighting Sioux you avoid any snarls with the NCAA and mascot names.

This is by no means a comprehensive list of why a SDSU/NDSU combo is better, just a few "quick hitters" off the top of my head. Hope this helps.

Go State! ;D

**jackrabbit1979** · 10-31-2005, 10:01 PM

Re: UND looking at D-I again

Originally posted by Mike_H

79 is partially true in his post, but there needs to be a couple of qualifications. We had Jeff Kolpak on from Fargo giving us his thoughts on it, and talked about it for maybe 20 minutes.

I do not know what he is talking about when he mentions my subtle jabs at SDSU, but I understand everyone hears with their own ears and their own thoughts. I was quite complimentary of SDSU and the way they went about the move. They told everyone they were looking at it, they made the decision, and they moved. They were open and honest with the conference from the beginning of the process until the day of the announcement of the move, which in my mind is the way it should be.

UND has been swaying in the wind, and I am getting sick of it. I just don't see this as a good way to treat your business partners, which is what a conference is. I understand that things change, but have they changed so much from the last study you did less than a year ago that you feel compelled to study it again?

Regarding the comments about the possible move by UND having an effect on SDSU: can you tell me that any given conference would NOT look at UND and NDSU as a better pair to add than SDSU and NDSU? I don't know the answer, which is why I brought it up. I also added that this could be good for SDSU as it would give a conference 3 viable additions instead of 2, making this area more attractive for expansion, and maybe a conference like the Big Sky another reason to look into having an east and a west division. 79 failed to mention that.

A couple of other notes. It was a caller that brought up USF and Morningside joining the NCC, not us. Also, we are the station that USF games are broadcast on, so we talk to the pbp guy each Friday afternoon. As for Craig's Carr report comment, I didn't get that either.

I will defend my post. i do admit, and have on many occasions, that i obviously hear stuff with jackrabbit ears on as that is what most diehard fans do. However, i don't think i am far off on my recollection of the show. Maybe where i interpret the subtle jabs at SDSU is in the fact that i hear mike's true feelings and statements as he posts them on this board, and then hear his buttered up "radio show" statements on the air. maybe i can't decipher his negativety here and his milktoast commentary there.

What i don't get is how they almost never take a pro SDSU stance during any subject unless they have a SDSU administrator or coach on the show. Maybe you didn't bash SDSU when the thought of UND going D1 came up, but you sure didn't support them. You did say you could see SDSU being thrown under the bus. Maybe you can, but why fuel the fire in your home state and not support your home institution. And what don't you get about Craig's Carr report comment, it was blatent atleast in the way i and the gentleman riding in my vehicle interpreted it. Pretty much telling UND to hire Carr and Associates because they benefited SDSU and NDSU soooo much during their studies. Sarcasm added. And i only brought up the USF and Augie comments because i didn't hear anything about GSU coming to Brookings. I admit i didn't here the whole show or the rest of the week so maybe you guys did commit time to the game. If so I apoligize. I really can't make an arguement now anyway after our strong :

4500 at the game on Sat.

This is the last time i will post on the subject, i apologize if i put words in anyones mouth. As I reread my post tonight i still don't think i did. But i do understand everyone speaks with their own mouths and own thoughts. Again Mike, sorry for the harsh post. Keep on broadcasting, I will keep on listening, and life will go on. We have already commited too much time to this one radio show.

**FargoBison** · 10-31-2005, 10:03 PM

Re: UND looking at D-I again

I think UND going DI could mean some good things for NDSU and SDSU since UND will only go DI if a conference is very serious about adding them.

So my perdiction is this, sometime from 2006-20007 the Big Sky is going to get serious again about expansion and they will add NDSU, UND, and SDSU. There are already complaints about the problems that a 9 team league faces in scheduling and the Montana schools want the Dakota's.

In my opinion this is the best scenario that could have come to NDSU and SDSU because a Big Sky with the Montana schools, UNC, and UND is very appealing. Fans have drivable games, and they known about these schools(Big problem with the Mid-Con).

My other prediction is that UNO either goes to the Mid-Con/Gateway or MIAA and USD either goes to the MIAA or reforms the NCC with area D2's.

**Bison_Dan** · 11-01-2005, 06:18 AM

Re: UND looking at D-I again

Maybe SDSU and NDSU go to the Mid-Con and und is left swinging in the wind?? ;D ;D

**89rabbit** · 11-04-2005, 06:27 AM

Re: UND looking at D-I again

Highlights from a Fargo Forum story:

http://www.in-forum.com/articles/ind...Jeff%20Kolpack (sub. site but it is free)

Feasibility. Reclassification. Institution. Get ready for those three words, University of North Dakota followers.

They will be used repeatedly in the next year if the university hires a consultant � which it is expected to and which it should do � in its Division I decision. . . .

There was a popular notion in this space that the Sioux would never consider the D-I issue as long as Charles Kupchella is president. That theory is starting to dwindle for two reasons:

- Division II is getting so watered down that even the president has to admit the competition is lacking.

- Tom Buning. This is the guy who will lead UND to the next level. The first-year athletic director came to Grand Forks with no preconceived ideas on this issue. . . .

He came from a Division I institution, Army. In that regard, he�s not unlike NDSU athletic director Gene Taylor, who came from Division I Navy.

They both came to North Dakota with open minds. And that�s what you want on this issue.

UND�s decision seems like a slam dunk. This is the second time in less than a year it is looking at moving up, and this one seems more serious with Buning running the show.

Once a consultant is hired, what is there for the firm not to like about the school? It has facilities, tradition, personnel, rich alumni and a large fan base. It appears solid in its Title IX compliance.

If Carr Sports Associates gave the OK for NDSU and SDSU, it�s doubtful a consultant would find much fault with UND.

UND�s strategic plan for 2005 calls for an effort to change the NCAA�s rule on allowing more than one sport to move to Division I.

Three words: Give it up. It will never happen.

There is no way in the name of Buck Buchanan and Walter Payton that Division I-AA football programs will stand for Division II schools to play at that level. If for no other reason, their egos will get in the way.

Plus, it would create mass division confusion. Who�s playing at what level and where?

The consultant will give UND rave reviews with the exception of the conference issue. NDSU and SDSU are rolling the dice.

It�s to be determined if UND is willing to gamble, too.

Go State! ;D

**SDSUFAN** · 11-04-2005, 02:43 PM

Re: UND looking at D-I again

Originally posted by Mike_H

79 is partially true in his post, but there needs to be a couple of qualifications. We had Jeff Kolpak on from Fargo giving us his thoughts on it, and talked about it for maybe 20 minutes.

I do not know what he is talking about when he mentions my subtle jabs at SDSU, but I understand everyone hears with their own ears and their own thoughts. I was quite complimentary of SDSU and the way they went about the move. They told everyone they were looking at it, they made the decision, and they moved. They were open and honest with the conference from the beginning of the process until the day of the announcement of the move, which in my mind is the way it should be.

UND has been swaying in the wind, and I am getting sick of it. I just don't see this as a good way to treat your business partners, which is what a conference is. I understand that things change, but have they changed so much from the last study you did less than a year ago that you feel compelled to study it again?

Regarding the comments about the possible move by UND having an effect on SDSU: can you tell me that any given conference would NOT look at UND and NDSU as a better pair to add than SDSU and NDSU? I don't know the answer, which is why I brought it up. I also added that this could be good for SDSU as it would give a conference 3 viable additions instead of 2, making this area more attractive for expansion, and maybe a conference like the Big Sky another reason to look into having an east and a west division. 79 failed to mention that.

A couple of other notes. It was a caller that brought up USF and Morningside joining the NCC, not us. Also, we are the station that USF games are broadcast on, so we talk to the pbp guy each Friday afternoon. As for Craig's Carr report comment, I didn't get that either.

Mike:
I did not listen to your show the day that 79 referred too, and I think you have defended yourself properly, but the question about a conference wanting NDSU and UND over SDSU, is a little presumptious. I wonder if you �bought into Mick Gerry comments in the Sunday article about dollar size of budgets. The thing that is so misleading about Gerrys article is tha substantial portion �of UND's 9 million budget is for D1 Hockey men and women. �Mick failed to mention that point. Same is true of UNO and their 7 million budget. Most is for D1 hockey which neither NDSU or SDSU have or will want to have. �Take Hockey out of the equation and budgets are much different in compariabilty and size.

I agree UND moving up might give SDSU better options in terms of a conference. The Big Sky expansion is still an option. Also UND would be an excellent for UNC in the Great West. �

Frankly I glad SDSU has equestrian instead as it works for SDSU, but that hockey????? I not a hockey fan and granted its $$$$$$$$$$$$$ for UND, but its expensive sport with a hugh travel budget.

For either NDSU or SDSU to start to think Hockey would be cost prohibited, and I am glad SDSU has kept their swimming and diving sport. �Again UND would be a better fit for the Mid Con than NDSU in that sport which they dont have.

Who is better than who seems to be a very academic and debatable question in terms of D1 conferences.

I do think that UND should hire Carr Associates, and the fact they have not so far, makes you wonder if Kupchella is going through an excerise to please his new AD, who thinks otherwise.

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UND looking at D-I again

UND looking at D-I again

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