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  • Men's Basketball

    I was going to post this under basketball, but it is probably more appropriate here.

    Anyone who thinks Hornby, Yackley, or any of the other redshirts are going to be our saviors next year needs a reality check. Especially if you are making those assumptions based on pre-game warm-ups.

    I would say confidence is a problem for this team. From what I’ve seen and heard, when Coach Morgenthaler (sp?) was here, he was the ying to Coach Nagy’s yang. Coach Nagy would break players down, Coach Morgenthaler would build them up. Who is doing the building now? Coach Wilbur and Coach Cunningham are nice guys with a good relationship with many of the players, but as assistants, they may not carry much clout. Our players have looked like abused 5 year olds, walking into the huddle with their heads down, making no eye contact with their coaches or each other—even when we are playing well. The only player in the last 5 years who held his own with Coach Nagy was Moeller, and he left the team to join up with Mogenthaler in MN. Our outside shooting stinks, and about 80% of shooting is confidence. We are even struggling to make easy shots. Even our beloved Austin Hansen packed up and left to do his grad work with Morgenthaler. Does that say anything to you?

    To say recruiting Kleinjan was a mistake is simply ignorant. He was the best player in SD his last year of high school (ask our buddy Chris at the Argus), and we were still DII at the time. Stringing him along the last 4 years could be considered a mistake, but not recruiting him. Why not be straight with him and say "you are not good enough to play at this level, you should consider transferring." If you think Kleinjan can’t play at this level, find some former Jacks who played with him and ask them. See what they say. IMO, his playing ability has actually seemed to go backwards under Coach Nagy.

    Of course, many fans see only the box score and do not fully appreciate defense and ball control. IMO, this team could use a little more defense and ball control. I don’t care if you have 4 guys scoring 20+, when you turn the ball over and don’t play defense, you are going to get beat. If you want entertaining, high scoring basketball without defense, I think the Globe Trotters come to SF about once every year. They may even play in Swiftel once in awhile, and you're pretty much guaranteed a win.

    Not long ago, everyone here was singing Heien’s praises. How quickly that tide has turned. Someday everything which has happened with Kleinjan, Moeller, Green, Beran, Heien, Casey, and Jones might come to the light of day. I think it would leave a lot of people shaking their heads.

    I believe Casey just doesn’t know his role on this team. Can anyone shed some light on why he plays 15+ minutes one game and then doesn’t see the floor the next? That would be a hard way to perform, not knowing until you get called to the scorer’s table whether or not you are going to play that night. If he is truly so bad, why play him at all?

    As for players leaving the team, I think it is more probable that some of our young standouts or redshirts will leave before any of the seasoned vets do. Just my opinion, not starting any rumors.

    Whew!! I feel much better now.
    “I used to be with it. But then they changed what it was. Now what I’m with isn’t it, and what’s it seems scary and wierd. It’ll happen to you.” — Abe Simpson

  • #2
    Re: Men's Basketball

    Just some quick comments:

    I think Kleinjan has the talent to play at his level, he just hasn't played aggresive. I don't know if Nagy has limited his role on offense or if he is just too tenative, but the kid is athletic enough to compete.

    As far as casey goes, I think he gets his minutes when the other team has a point guard that is too quick for Heien to handle. That's when Casey comes in because he is quicker than Heien.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Men's Basketball

      SF_RABBIT_FAN'S Quote:
      " Someday everything which has happened with Kleinjan, Moeller, Green, Beran, Heien, Casey, and Jones might come to the light of day.  I think it would leave a lot of people shaking their heads."

      Its not going to leave anyones head shaking just for the fact that you are reading way to much into it perod!

      I have said it before and I will say it again.  Coach Nagy might look like he is constantly harping and down grading these men.  You have to look into the other end of this...the things he does privately with each individual in his one-on-ones.  

      Marganthaler is a great recruiter, no doubt.  But he went on to a better situation for himself and his family.  Larson is a great recruiter also, let this system work and get off of the coaches because we are not undefeated as you think we should be.

      If we were at 500 right now would you be making the same comments?  IMHO you would not.  Dont give up just as of yet, the future is bright.  If it is not, I will gladly help to get you hired here as the coach with all of your vast knowledge of recruiting, scheduling, inside know how of the program and of course your outstanding coaching ability!

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Men's Basketball

        Originally posted by Rabbitden
        SF_RABBIT_FAN'S Quote:
        " Someday everything which has happened with Kleinjan, Moeller, Green, Beran, Heien, Casey, and Jones might come to the light of day.  I think it would leave a lot of people shaking their heads."

        I have said it before and I will say it again.  Coach Nagy might look like he is constantly harping and down grading these men.  You have to look into the other end of this...the things he does privately with each individual in his one-on-ones.  

        Marganthaler is a great recruiter, no doubt.  But he went on to a better situation for himself and his family.  Larson is a great recruiter also, let this system work and get off of the coaches because we are not undefeated as you think we should be.

        If we were at 500 right now would you be making the same comments?  IMHO you would not.
        You must really enjoy the one-on-ones you have been taking part of. Are you in the room when these meetings take place? Or is this simply what Coach Nagy says happens when he talks at alumni gatherings and on the radio? I learned at a young age that actions speak louder than words. Until I see some reflection of a caring personality, I stand by my statements.

        Coach Larson's recruiting record speaks for itself. Lets take a look at some of his recruits. 5 years at SDSU, and his first year here we signed Andy Kleinjan and a walk-on from Nebraska. The following season we signed Beran, Green, and Wenig. Casey, Heien (who shouldn't really count, as he was initially turned down), and Loney. Landon Scott was another signee? And lets not forget Calvin Melaney who the coaches said would be awesome, along with Richardson, I think. Oh, and there are the acquisitions of Jose, Berte, Gilbert, Cadwell, and the redshirts (who we have not seen play). So, which out of these proves the idea that Coach Larson is a "great recruiter?"

        Out of 15 recruits who have seen playing time, 7 (or more, depending on who you talk to) have been all out busts. At least 5 have not recieved degrees from State, and many others are a long way from graduation. And this says nothing of some of the legal problems-both public and not public-some of these players have had. We have 2 current players who have good enough grades to not attend mandatory study hall. Sounds similar to the program Bob Huggins ran at Cincy, if you take away the whole winning thing.

        And you are probably right, I wouldn't be raising these concerns if we were .500, but we're not. That is the whole point of my post. We are not very good, and I haven't seen much progress (after attending or watching almost every game). On top of it all, our players are very, very, very down, and who is there to pick them up? Oh, that's right, there are high-fives and hugs a plenty behind those closed doors.

        When one chooses coaching as a profession, he/she opens their life's work to scrutiny. If a person can't handle it, they shouldn't be a coach, especially at the DI level. As in any job (unless you work for the government or a union ;D), when performance suffers, consequences are paid. That is a fact. The past two seasons, our teams have drastically underperformed.
        “I used to be with it. But then they changed what it was. Now what I’m with isn’t it, and what’s it seems scary and wierd. It’ll happen to you.” — Abe Simpson

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Men's Basketball

          Originally posted by SF_Rabbit_Fan

           I learned at a young age that actions speak louder than words.  
          Scott Nagy

          TOTALS 224-89 = 71.5% Winning percentage.

          What is your NCAA winning % the last 10 + years?


          Go Caoch Nagy!


          Go State!  ;D

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Men's Basketball

            Good grief. :
            “I used to be with it. But then they changed what it was. Now what I’m with isn’t it, and what’s it seems scary and wierd. It’ll happen to you.” — Abe Simpson

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Men's Basketball

              Originally posted by SF_Rabbit_Fan
              Good grief. :
              That is exactly what I think every time you try and run down the winningest coach in SDSU history.  :


              Go State!  ;D


              P.S. I do know that winningest is not a real word, but it is used in sports all the time.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Men's Basketball

                No comment since I am the stupid guy who watches warmups and am impressed. ;D

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Men's Basketball

                  Originally posted by SF_Rabbit_Fan
                  If you think Kleinjan can’t play at this level, find some former Jacks who played with him and ask them.  See what they say.

                  I'm sure everyone plays like world beaters in practice and pre-game warm-ups. ;D ;D

                  But what do I know, I'm just ignorant. :

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Men's Basketball

                    Originally posted by SiouxFallsJack


                    I'm sure everyone plays like world beaters in practice and pre-game warm-ups.  ;D ;D

                    But what do I know, I'm just ignorant.  :
                    Why the bitterness and preconceived notions about the red shirts? Next year at this time there might be proof that you are correct. I would like to see what Cam Hornby and the others can do, before I start slamming them, the coaches and everyone else connect to the program. Take a deep breathe and chill out. ;D You and I are just fans. Its not the end of the world.

                    I could not sleep Saturday night after watching this game where we are getting clobbered by 40 before 4300 vocal fans. Does that give me reason to question everything about the program? NO.

                     I had no problem sleeping last night and tonight will be no different.
                    The people who are being paid and are receiving a free education via scholarships are the ones who should be concerned and maybe they should be having sleep problems, but not me. No thanks, there are other things to worry about.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Men's Basketball

                      Not really bitter, just don't like being called ignorant. My post was not intended to be a slam against the redshirts as I am very much looking forward to watching them play next year.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Men's Basketball

                        Originally posted by SiouxFallsJack
                        Not really bitter, just don't like being called ignorant.  My post was not intended to be a slam against the redshirts as I am very much looking forward to watching them play next year.  
                        Sorry I got you confused with SF Rabbit Fan. Its a good thing to have so many SF fans that post here that old folks like me get confused. My sincere apologies. I need to be more careful next time. It was not my intend to call anyone ignorant. Thats not fair if we are all SDSU fans and alums.

                        I do think our red shirts will at least add to our depth that we don't have now. How good they are and how much difference they will make remains to be seen.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Men's Basketball

                          [quote author=SF_Rabbit_Fan link=board=Smack;num=1137434767;start=0#3 date=01/16/06 at 17:03:14]

                          You must really enjoy the one-on-ones you have been taking part of.  Are you in the room when these meetings take place?  
                          ************************************************** ****************************************
                          Of course I am not in the room but I am close enough to the program to understand and know what the players say about them.

                          You better take a closer look at are graduation rates while your at it.  On that note, study circles are pretty much the norm for all athletic programs nationwide.  When teams travel as much as they do this is for the good of the student athlete.

                          I understand your frustration right now but dont take it out on the staff.  Scholarship athletes are here basically being paid to go to school by playing in one sport or the other.  If they are not panning out they will be released.

                          This is not a perfect world and noone is going to be able to tell how a young student is going to react when they get away from home.  Athletes are like any other student...if they make a mistake they will pay for it.

                          Scott Nagy and staff are very caring individuals, since you know them so well you already know this.  Back off, and remember the sky is blue and the grass is green.

                          GO JACKS!

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Men's Basketball

                            There's an old saying in the football circles that there are plenty of weekday all-american, but the real players show up on Saturday. Plenty of guys have the WOW in practice, but can't perform under the real spot light. I hope that the guys that are sitting turn out to be as good as we hope, but until they are playing in a real pressure situation I would personally withhold any comments about their potential. This team is in a tough spot this year, and when momentum shifts the wrong way it's hard to stop. Hopefully there's a slump buster coming up quick that can help out.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Men's Basketball

                              Here is what I am understanding when I read what SF_Rabbit has to say.

                              #1 Andy Kleinjan might be the most talented player ever on the roster at SDSU. His numbers and game performance don't reflect that because Nagy and his coaching staff have misused him.

                              #2 Coach Nagy is too hard on his players. Kids these days don't want to hear about areas of their game that need to improve.

                              #3 Alums of the BB team who leave to help former coaches at different programs do so because they don't want to work with Coach Nagy.

                              #4 Our current roster consists of players who are only there because previous recruits turned out to be a bust (somewhat accurate) and there is no chance that any of the current redshirt freshman will contribute. More likely, some of the current players may leave because of Coach Nagy.

                              I disagree with almost every one of these points but respect his opinion to make them. I have questions about Coach Nagy and always have. He does seem tough on players during and post-game.

                              I am concerned about the current directions of men's basketball but have the patients and understanding to appreciate that things have gone just about as poorly as possible during the transition to DI. It can only get better from here.

                              As for the future, I support adding the current RSFr to the core roster next year. Cordova and Bassett may be physically ready to play as freshman but unless the current RSFr simply can't provide any minutes I would like to see them both RS next year. If Hornby and Cadwell can't manage the backcourt we will be in big trouble as we don't have anyone else apparent on the current roster or coming in who can do so.

                              These are lean, humbling years and we have just started taking our lumps. Grumbling about Andy Kleinjan just doesn't seem relevant to me.
                              We are here to add what we can to life, not get what we can from life. -Sir William Osler

                              We do not see things as they are, we see things as we are.

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