Tweet
Re: I should call my friend tonight.
Maybe you are right, I hope you are right.
Originally posted by West-River_Jack
-
-
Re: I should call my friend tonight.
I'm in Sioux City right now and the people who are here for the NAIA DII national championships love NAIA basketball. However, at the hotel, they are all watching ESPN waiting to hear which schools are making the big dance, who is headed to the NIT and who is not going to be playing. No one is talking about the DII regionals except a few USD fans and they have no clue who is in any of the other regionals. When you have never been outside of small town SD you don't really have an idea about what the rest of the US is talking about. I'll be in Des Moines later today and if you pick a random person on the street and ask them about the NCC, they have no idea.
All that said, nothing should be taken away from the athletes who compete at the lower level. Its still a great experience just not the ultimate one.We are here to add what we can to life, not get what we can from life. -Sir William Osler
We do not see things as they are, we see things as we are.Comment
-
Re: I should call my friend tonight.
Amem Jackmd, and the further east you travel, it gets more ignorant in terms to knowledge of SD and the NCC. I think this is one reason we went D1 in that D1 would widen our nationa exposure.Originally posted by jackmd
The only ones east of the Mississippi River who have knowledge of the NCC are those D2 coaches and AD's who have met NCC people at the NCAA national convention. The NCC was great while it lasted. A number of schools came and went to through the NCC over its history. One institution that was interested in joining in the early days Iin the 1920's was Michigan A & M, now Michigan State of the Big Ten. So no matter how good or how competitve a conference may be, it can not always last for ever. I think the die was cast back in 1957 when the NCAA membership opened a college and univerity divisions and again in 1973, when the membership was regrouped again as D1, D2 and D3. I might point out also that prior to 1957, all the NCC members were members of NAIA, because they could not begin to compete as NCAA members. Money has driven everything in the past and it will continue into the future.Comment
-
Re: I should call my friend tonight.
It's as simple as this. Would you rather be competing/watching teams like Northern Iowa or is Upper Iowa more your style. Similar names, but the athletic programs are not comparable. The longer we are in DI the more you will see us separate away from these DII schools, to the point that no one will "long" to return to the golden days of the NCC. Give USD 5 years, and if their fans are still talking about how much they miss the NCC, they should return back to DII.The Great West is not a great option for the Coyotes, but it is the only option. I certainly don't think it's anything to get very excited about. If we get in we will be playing teams from California, that certainly doesn't excite me very much. I have never been one to criticize State for joining that conference, because what else were you to do--it does beat the heck out of being a I-AA independent. However, I'm sure I did say things to the effect of "I can't imagine it would be more exciting to play these teams from California that you've never heard of and have no history with than to play in the NCC." Now I'm saying the same thing about USD. I much rather see USD be playing teams in the NCC than play in the Great West conference. But since we are DI now, and the NCC is no longer, I guess we are forced to join a conference like this, if they will have us that is. I'm sure as I'm watching us play these damn teams I know nothing about, I will be longing for the days of NCC past. I'm talking the days before SDSU and NDSU left. Those were great days. That's why I didn't want to see the SU's leave, not because I didn't think you could make it in DI, but because I didn't want to destroy what we had. I'm sure I'll never get the same satisfaction out of USD sports that I did at one time. If our men's bball team wins a game in the big dance one year, I guess I'll have to get on this board and eat some crow.LET'S TAKE A TRIP TO BIRDLAND! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=68-6O2mJhMwComment
-
Re: I should call my friend tonight.
I would not even begin to act like the DII regionals garner as much national attention as the Big Dance. Obviously the Big Dance gets a lot more attention from all college fans. The only thing I said in regards to notoriety was that the difference in notoriety between IAA football and DII football is very small, which is to say that the only interested parties are those that are in that classification. I doubt Cornhusker fans are watching to see who makes the IAA playoffs, just like I doubt Hawkeye fans are on the edge of their seats to see if USD wins the regionals this weekend.Originally posted by jackmd
If USD gets to the point someday where they are a bubble team for the NCAA tournament and people from all over the US are tuning in to see if we are going to get in or not, then I will be happy to see that, and I might even think to myself "I can't believe I ever doubted our decision to move to DI." If we end up like a Gonzaga, Butler, Southern Ill., Creighton, etc. then I will be happy. If we end up as a UMKC, Denver, Lamar, Tenn. St., Morgan St., Wagner, Stony Brook, Radford, High Point, etc. then I won't be too happy. These are teams that might be doing fine in DI, and maybe I wouldn't have heard of them if they were DII, but it's not like I ever think about them, and I certainly wouldn't trade places with them. But just because I don't support our decision doesn't mean I'm going to stop supporting the University, I will hope for the best, and maybe I'll be singing a different tune in 10 years.Comment
-
Re: I should call my friend tonight.
DI FCS is the right fit for SDSU and probably USD. SDSU's a land-grand institution with similar ideals as other DI institutions. We fit in way better with N. Iowa, Missouri State, Illinois State, etc, then we do with the most of the teams that are sponsoring DII football.
If USD gets to the point someday where they are a bubble team for the NCAA tournament and people from all over the US are tuning in to see if we are going to get in or not, then I will be happy to see that, and I might even think to myself "I can't believe I ever doubted our decision to move to DI." If we end up like a Gonzaga, Butler, Southern Ill., Creighton, etc. then I will be happy. If we end up as a UMKC, Denver, Lamar, Tenn. St., Morgan St., Wagner, Stony Brook, Radford, High Point, etc. then I won't be too happy. These are teams that might be doing fine in DI, and maybe I wouldn't have heard of them if they were DII, but it's not like I ever think about them, and I certainly wouldn't trade places with them. But just because I don't support our decision doesn't mean I'm going to stop supporting the University, I will hope for the best, and maybe I'll be singing a different tune in 10 years.
You and many other USD fan's fear the move, because you lack confidence in you Universities commitment to have a successful DI athletic program. You might be correct, I guess we will see.
I have no doubt that SDSU's administration is dedicated to achieve DI success. Heck, we already have with our women's basketball program. I don't see our University accepting one trip to the tournament every 30 years. Someday in the near future we will be at the top of the MidCon.
Juice, note the teams you smacked on, none of them are "flagship" State Universities. They are private schools, or secondary public universities.LET'S TAKE A TRIP TO BIRDLAND! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=68-6O2mJhMwComment
-
Re: I should call my friend tonight.
I would not even begin to act like the DII regionals garner as much national attention as the Big Dance. Obviously the Big Dance gets a lot more attention from all college fans. The only thing I said in regards to notoriety was that the difference in notoriety between IAA football and DII football is very small, which is to say that the only interested parties are those that are in that classification. I doubt Cornhusker fans are watching to see who makes the IAA playoffs, just like I doubt Hawkeye fans are on the edge of their seats to see if USD wins the regionals this weekend.Originally posted by juice
If USD gets to the point someday where they are a bubble team for the NCAA tournament and people from all over the US are tuning in to see if we are going to get in or not, then I will be happy to see that, and I might even think to myself "I can't believe I ever doubted our decision to move to DI." If we end up like a Gonzaga, Butler, Southern Ill., Creighton, etc. then I will be happy. If we end up as a UMKC, Denver, Lamar, Tenn. St., Morgan St., Wagner, Stony Brook, Radford, High Point, etc. then I won't be too happy. These are teams that might be doing fine in DI, and maybe I wouldn't have heard of them if they were DII, but it's not like I ever think about them, and I certainly wouldn't trade places with them. But just because I don't support our decision doesn't mean I'm going to stop supporting the University, I will hope for the best, and maybe I'll be singing a different tune in 10 years.[/quote]
To clarify a few things. There is no more I-A or I-AA, it is the Football Bowl Subdivision (FBS, formely I-A)and Football Championship Subdivison (FCS, formerly I-AA). Here are the differences.
D-I FBS = 85 scholarships and the postseason is comprised of bowl games
D-I FCS = 63 scholarships and the postseason is comprised of a 16 team play-off
D-II = 36 scholarships and the postseason is play-off
D-III = non-scholarship and a postseason play-off
When you look at scholarhips alone there is a bigger difference between D-II and D-I FCS than there is between the FBS and FCS. Another benefit of being in the FCS is that you have the option of a big money game against a team from a BCS conference and/or play another team from a mid-major FBS conference. This was huge for putting NDSU on the national map last season and I expect it to be for SDSU in the future.
The additional scholarships are huge. In the NCC days Stig gave out very few full rides. Most scholarships were split up. Now every scholarship player has a full ride. That is huge for recruiting. The speed of the game is much greater (you should know this from the 'yotes trip to Central Arkansas this past season). All rounds of the FCS play-offs are televised on ESPN and many regular season games are on the ESPN family of networks along with regional coverage on FSN.
The tradition and history in the FCS is another thing lacking in D-II. There are two conferences composed of Historical Black Colleges. Every seen the Battle of the Bayou on NBC every year between Southern (the first D-I team SDSU beat) and Grambling? It also contains the Ivy League. If the D-I move works out for USD, you will be very happy with what the FCS offers for football.
Go Big! Go Blue! Go Jacks!Comment
-
Re: I should call my friend tonight.
I believe, many DII conferences have agreements to offer less then the 36 schollies. DII has been diluted as of late. That's why the NCC disbanded.D-I FBS = 85 scholarships and the postseason is comprised of bowl games
D-I FCS = 63 scholarships and the postseason is comprised of a 16 team play-off
D-II = 36 scholarships and the postseason is play-off
D-III = non-scholarship and a postseason play-offLET'S TAKE A TRIP TO BIRDLAND! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=68-6O2mJhMwComment
-
Re: I should call my friend tonight.
Aren't we allowed to split our 63 scholarships with up to 85 players? (I know that ALL FBS/I-A scholarships are full scholarships.) Nevertheless, a lot of players now are on full scholarship or even 75% as opposed to the 25-50% that was standard during the D-II era.Originally posted by gatewayrabbitComment
-
Re: I should call my friend tonight.
Aren't we allowed to split our 63 scholarships with up to 85 players? (I know that ALL FBS/I-A scholarships are full scholarships.) Nevertheless, a lot of players now are on full scholarship or even 75% as opposed to the 25-50% that was standard during the D-II era.[/quote]Originally posted by NightHawk78
This is correct, we're allowed 85 counters and 63 "equivalencies.""I think we'll be OK"Comment
-
Re: I should call my friend tonight.
You are right 2002Jack. When we went Division 1 three years ago, the average number of football scholarships offered by Divsion II teams was 18. There were only two or three conferences that used the 36 scholarship limit. That is why there was an annual push at the NCAA by the smaller schools to lower the 36 scholarship limit.Originally posted by 2002jackComment
-
Re: I should call my friend tonight.
There is a HUGE misperception in this region about DII football and its importance outside of our region. Comments like juice made about the national opinion regarding DII and DI FCS are ludicrous but widely shared in our region. Its ignorant/naive and with education people are beginning to understand. USD and its fans had better understand that they are not going to be DII anymore. DI is DI and nothing less. If you aren't prepared for the increased competition then you better get prepared in a hurry. You sound foolish when you try to compare DII to DI. Facts are facts, DI FCS and BCS are much more similar than DII and either.
Now, UND can be UNI once in awhile, just like SDSU could beat the U of M once in awhile. That doesn't make us equal.We are here to add what we can to life, not get what we can from life. -Sir William Osler
We do not see things as they are, we see things as we are.Comment
-
Re: I should call my friend tonight.
I never said DII football did have a lot of importance outside of our region, except maybe by the teams that play it. What I was saying was that FCS doesn't get much more notoriety than DII. People that have schools in DII are going to be interested in DII, people that have schools in FCS are going to be fans of FCS, and then everyone is going to be fans of FBS. People that go to or are alums of FBS schools will not follow either FCS or DII schools. I was not commenting on the difference in level of play between the two divisions, I was only commenting on the notoriety and level of interest by people around the country. Like I said before, it's not like USC fans, Cornhusker fans, etc. are going to be paying attention to either FCS or DII. I have friends spread around the country, and they are big sports fans, but none of them know $hit about the FCS.Originally posted by jackmd
I agree, I don't think UND going down to UNI and beating them, and Chadron beating Montana St. and Central Wash. beating a big sky team makes the two divisions equal. Obviously with the increase in scholarship limits, you are going to see an increase in the level of play. I was only talking about the level of interest around the country. I will say this. I do believe that there is more interest and more knowledge within the FCS about FCS teams than there is among DII about DII team, and maybe that is what jackmd was talking about. I realize that last line was confusing, but I couldn't think of a better way to word it. What I meant was, I do think fans of FCS teams know more about and hear more about each other than do fans of DII teams.
Where State is really going to make their name is in DI basketball, because that is where you are competing at the highest level. Your women are already putting you on the map. They will probably be hosting a couple of WNIT games this year and could make a really good run. Once you join the midcon next year, I have a feeling you guys will be regulars in the Big Dance. I gotta think your women would have won the midcon this year. And even though your men have struggled, I don't think you are too far off from being right in the thick of things in the midcon. If I remember right you guys beat UMKC and they came very close to reaching the conf. tournament championship. I know your men's struggles aren't going to continue forever. I feel they will bring you more recognition than your FB team will ever be able to. NDSU probably had the best FCS team in the nation this year, but their one win over Wisconsin last year in basketball got them more recognition than their FB did. That was also partly due to the fact that they weren't playoff eligible this year.Comment
-
Re: I should call my friend tonight.
juice, watch ESPN. FCS gets quite a bit more attention than D-II (granted, it's still a lot less than BCS) on the newscasts and on the Ticker. The coverage of FCS on the Web is significantly higher than D-II. In fact, you're lucky to just get D-II scores on mainstream sports websites.
The more games BCS teams have against FCS teams (and a few upsets won't hurt), the more attention FCS teams will get, particularly to those college football fans who love the concept of a playoff. Hopefully, the stature of the playoff will grow (and maybe the Ivies would agree to play in the playoffs, giving more name recognition) and become a popular complement to the BCS system.Comment
-
Re: I should call my friend tonight.
The Great West is not a great option for the Coyotes, but it is the only option. I certainly don't think it's anything to get very excited about. If we get in we will be playing teams from California, that certainly doesn't excite me very much. I have never been one to criticize State for joining that conference, because what else were you to do--it does beat the heck out of being a I-AA independent. However, I'm sure I did say things to the effect of "I can't imagine it would be more exciting to play these teams from California that you've never heard of and have no history with than to play in the NCC." Now I'm saying the same thing about USD. I much rather see USD be playing teams in the NCC than play in the Great West conference. But since we are DI now, and the NCC is no longer, I guess we are forced to join a conference like this, if they will have us that is. I'm sure as I'm watching us play these damn teams I know nothing about, I will be longing for the days of NCC past. I'm talking the days before SDSU and NDSU left. Those were great days. That's why I didn't want to see the SU's leave, not because I didn't think you could make it in DI, but because I didn't want to destroy what we had. I'm sure I'll never get the same satisfaction out of USD sports that I did at one time. If our men's bball team wins a game in the big dance one year, I guess I'll have to get on this board and eat some crow.Originally posted by juice
[/quote]
I would get excited if I were you, two of the three teams in the GWFC are top 20 teams year in and year out. SUU is a up and coming programs and if you don't show up to play they will beat you. This is a newer conference but quickly became one of top conferences in the nation. I don't see why USD and UND can't help keep the GWFC one to the top in the nation. With the possiblity of adding other schools things are looking up.
With the GWFC and some other independent conferences put together in last couple years, USD has a good start at this DI thing. Sit back and just enjoy the ride.
Plus these schools are't that new: SDSU and NDSU played Cal Davis prior to the GWFC and NDSU had played Cal Poly.
CHANGE IS GOOD --- CHANGE IS NEEDED TO MOVE FORWARD AND GROW
1/22/07
Great West Finishes 2006 Season Ranked As Top FCS Conference
http://greatwestfootball.cstv.com/
The Gridiron Power Index (GPI), the index ranking for I-AA/FCS and top indicator of at-large playoff selection finished the 2006 season with the he Great West Football Conference as the top ranked conference of the year. NCAA Division I national champion Appalachian State in the top spot. The Great West, Atlantic 10, the Big Sky and the Gateway Football Conferences all had four teams in the top 25; the Southern Conference placed three; the Ivy League placed two, the Big South and the Mid-Eastern Athletic Conferences plus the Independents and the Pioneer Football League placed one each.
(more) http://greatwestfootball.cstv.com/sp...012207aaa.html
Comment
Comment