UND is Ranked?

[Hammersmith]

Re: UND is Ranked?

This thread has gone a little wonky, but here's what happened:

A little over a week ago, NDSU was ranked 6th in the coaches' poll and UND was unranked(in all 3 major polls). That weekend, NDSU had a bye week and UND played a close(but very ugly) loss at Fresno State. Come Monday, NDSU dropped 6 spots to 12th and UND was now ranked 21st(but still unranked in the other two polls). Everybody who was paying attention said "what the hell?" (there were also odd things in this poll regarding USD, SDSU & Cal Poly)

We all know the polls aren't perfect. Last year was a CF with Jackson St, Jacksonville St, and Jacksonville. A couple years ago, San Diego State was getting votes in WBB meant for you guys. So Jeff Kolpack twitters a "WTF?" Terry V responds with a "maybe some voters screwed up?" Kolpack tweets "could be." UND's SID goes nuts and starts acting like a 12 year old on an official Twitter account.*

Seriously, how is UND legitimately ranked at 21? They had a 1-2 record at that point. Their only win? Non-scholarship Drake. And they only managed to score one TD against them. Against a bad Idaho team, they collapsed almost as bad in the second half as you guys did at Montana(sorry but this is the smack forum). How does that resume equal a top-25 ranking?

So another week goes by. NDSU knocks off Minnesota and UND gets a win against NAIA Black Hills State. NDSU returns to its 6th place spot and UND falls to 23rd. One of the theories is that some voters(it would only take 5-7 in a poll with only 28 total voters) saw the UND/Fresno results, assumed it was actually NDSU(since we had a bye), and put UND on their ballets in 4th-8th place instead of NDSU. The following week, the voters who screwed up fixed their votes, but other voters saw UND at 21st the previous week and assumed others knew something they didn't and gave UND enough 20th-25th place votes to stay ranked.

Or there are a bunch of idiot SIDs and grad assistants that completely overvalue an close loss to an FBS program. Either way, the coaches' poll took a big hit in its credibility around here(but not in GF, of course).



*UND's SID's tweets after Kolpack's:

"Yup, the voters HAD TO be confused. Thats what we'll go with. No way @UNDfootball could crack that poll just on its own merit (rolls eyes)."
"If I'm Montana and Montana State, I look into this poll business immediately. Voters could've been mixing them up for years."
"Wow, these New York Jets are really looking good tonight on Monday Night Football #thingsacollegefootballpollvotermightsay #apparently" (it was the Giants playing)
"@mgraalum My issue isn't the poll. My issue is unsubstantiated (so far) conspiracy theory. Diminishes fine showing by a group of young men."
"@mgraalum But why isn't anyone finding voters to corroborate (even off the record) this before simply floating a theory? That's all I ask."
"@mgraalum Like I said, I only ask for corroboration to accompany the theory. Only seems logical. Then we could all move on, no?"

The first three tweets all came together. The next three shortly thereafter. And Kolpack hadn't written a story or anything, just a tweet that the poll looked odd and might have been a case of mistaken identity.

[SturgisJeff]

Re: UND is Ranked?

maybe the voters think its University of Notre Dame and not UND

[Prairiehaas]

Re: UND is Ranked?

That or we need to get BH and Mines on the schedule

[SDSF]

Re: UND is Ranked?

This thread has gone a little wonky, but here's what happened:

A little over a week ago, NDSU was ranked 6th in the coaches' poll and UND was unranked(in all 3 major polls). That weekend, NDSU had a bye week and UND played a close(but very ugly) loss at Fresno State. Come Monday, NDSU dropped 6 spots to 12th and UND was now ranked 21st(but still unranked in the other two polls). Everybody who was paying attention said "what the hell?" (there were also odd things in this poll regarding USD, SDSU & Cal Poly)

We all know the polls aren't perfect. Last year was a CF with Jackson St, Jacksonville St, and Jacksonville. A couple years ago, San Diego State was getting votes in WBB meant for you guys. So Jeff Kolpack twitters a "WTF?" Terry V responds with a "maybe some voters screwed up?" Kolpack tweets "could be." UND's SID goes nuts and starts acting like a 12 year old on an official Twitter account.*

Seriously, how is UND legitimately ranked at 21? They had a 1-2 record at that point. Their only win? Non-scholarship Drake. And they only managed to score one TD against them. Against a bad Idaho team, they collapsed almost as bad in the second half as you guys did at Montana(sorry but this is the smack forum). How does that resume equal a top-25 ranking?

So another week goes by. NDSU knocks off Minnesota and UND gets a win against NAIA Black Hills State. NDSU returns to its 6th place spot and UND falls to 23rd. One of the theories is that some voters(it would only take 5-7 in a poll with only 28 total voters) saw the UND/Fresno results, assumed it was actually NDSU(since we had a bye), and put UND on their ballets in 4th-8th place instead of NDSU. The following week, the voters who screwed up fixed their votes, but other voters saw UND at 21st the previous week and assumed others knew something they didn't and gave UND enough 20th-25th place votes to stay ranked.

Or there are a bunch of idiot SIDs and grad assistants that completely overvalue an close loss to an FBS program. Either way, the coaches' poll took a big hit in its credibility around here(but not in GF, of course).



*UND's SID's tweets after Kolpack's:

"Yup, the voters HAD TO be confused. Thats what we'll go with. No way @UNDfootball could crack that poll just on its own merit (rolls eyes)."
"If I'm Montana and Montana State, I look into this poll business immediately. Voters could've been mixing them up for years."
"Wow, these New York Jets are really looking good tonight on Monday Night Football #thingsacollegefootballpollvotermightsay #apparently" (it was the Giants playing)
"@mgraalum My issue isn't the poll. My issue is unsubstantiated (so far) conspiracy theory. Diminishes fine showing by a group of young men."
"@mgraalum But why isn't anyone finding voters to corroborate (even off the record) this before simply floating a theory? That's all I ask."
"@mgraalum Like I said, I only ask for corroboration to accompany the theory. Only seems logical. Then we could all move on, no?"

The first three tweets all came together. The next three shortly thereafter. And Kolpack hadn't written a story or anything, just a tweet that the poll looked odd and might have been a case of mistaken identity.

I understand this is the smack section but I believe that most of information about timeline is wrong.

Coaches Poll released around 10:00 or 11:00 AM

11:10 AM FGOSPORTSWRITERJeff Kolpack
NDSU idle, but falls from No. 6 to 12 in Sports Network FCS poll. Hmmm.

4:10 PM FGOSPORTSWRITERJeff Kolpack
@TerryVandrovec I think you're right. I think the FCS coaches who vote on the poll got UND and NDSU mixed up.
NOTE: Inforum has a sports article released in the afternoon stating that both UND and NDSU are ranked.
This is followed by a blog entry which was posted at

5:10 PM FGOSPORTSWRITERJeff Kolpack
The FCS coaches poll: which Dakota was it? | BISON Media Blog http://bisonmedia.areavoices.com/201...dakota-was-it/

At this point the SID makes two tweets in response.

5:54 PM UNDSIDJayson Hajdu
Yup, the voters HAD TO be confused. Thats what we'll go with. No way @UNDfootball could crack that poll just on its own merit (rolls eyes).

5:54 PM UNDSIDJayson Hajdu
If I'm Montana and Montana State, I look into this poll business immediately. Voters could've been mixing them up for years.

6:18 PM FGOSPORTSWRITERJeff Kolpack
I expect it from fb fans, but now I'm getting **** from an SID on a public domain.


I think arguing about who is in a poll or out of poll in the first five/six weeks is kind of silly because most teams have not played enough games. But at this point NDSU had played Lafayette (219) and St. Fran (224) and bye while UND had played Fresno St. (68) , Idaho (119) and Drake (189). It is possible that NDSU could have slid in the polls because of the weak schedule to that point or SID/Coaches mixed up UND/NDSU who knows. But, Mr. Kolpack has been running with this story if you will for more than a week via twitter, radio shows and coach's interviews. I am not saying that the UND SID was right but Kolpack has looked much worse in my opinion.

[FargoBison]

Re: UND is Ranked?

What the UND SID did was very unprofessional, Kolpack gets paid to give his opinions the UND SID doesn't.

If SOS is this all important thing, GSU has played nobody and is number with a bullet. SOS has rarely been a big factor in FCS polls, the fact that NDSU's poll position remained the same in every other poll that week and UND remained unranked does give some credibility to what Kolpack is saying. Plus the fact that the coaches poll only has 28 voters makes it vulnerable to error/clueless voters affecting the result, the poll either needs more voters or should be scrapped completely.

[HadleyCoyote]

Re: UND is Ranked?

Unfortunately, outside of the Dakotas, most people don't know the difference between North Dakota and South Dakota, let alone the Universities in those states. I'm from South Dakota, but people continually think I'm from North Dakota.

On Monday afternoon, I was listening to sports talk radio here in Detroit, 97.1 The Ticket. Host Mike Valenti told everyone that South Dakota State beat Minnesota. I wish it were true, but I had to roll my eyes.

[SDSF]

Re: UND is Ranked?

What the UND SID did was very unprofessional, Kolpack gets paid to give his opinions the UND SID doesn't.

If SOS is this all important thing, GSU has played nobody and is number with a bullet. SOS has rarely been a big factor in FCS polls, the fact that NDSU's poll position remained the same in every other poll that week and UND remained unranked does give some credibility to what Kolpack is saying. Plus the fact that the coaches poll only has 28 voters makes it vulnerable to error/clueless voters affecting the result, the poll either needs more voters or should be scrapped completely.

Not defending the Poll just giving a pausable alternative on why NDSU lost votes, I do think that UND getting votes because of UND/NDSU mix-up is more than likely. IMO Kolpack looks silly because we are talking about a FCS poll in week 3 or 4. The polls will correct by the end of the season and FCS has playoffs. Did TV comment and then blog about the poll after SDSU lost to Poly that weekend and then on Monday SDSU receives more votes than Poly in the coaches poll? No, he looked at the poll shook his head and moved on...

[Nidaros]

Re: UND is Ranked?

That or we need to get BH and Mines on the schedule

There you go

[Nidaros]

Re: UND is Ranked?

Unfortunately, outside of the Dakotas, most people don't know the difference between North Dakota and South Dakota, let alone the Universities in those states. I'm from South Dakota, but people continually think I'm from North Dakota.

On Monday afternoon, I was listening to sports talk radio here in Detroit, 97.1 The Ticket. Host Mike Valenti told everyone that South Dakota State beat Minnesota. I wish it were true, but I had to roll my eyes.

Know the feeling, Pierre North Dakota and Bismark South Dakota, I believe I got that right says your typical CBS commentator. Beating Minnesota was an almost two years ago. I am sure this Mike Valenti made the Bison happy. He should be happy that his listening area does not include Fargo. If it did his ears would literally be bleeding.

[Hammersmith]

Re: UND is Ranked?

I understand this is the smack section but I believe that most of information about timeline is wrong.

Coaches Poll released around 10:00 or 11:00 AM

11:10 AM FGOSPORTSWRITERJeff Kolpack
NDSU idle, but falls from No. 6 to 12 in Sports Network FCS poll. Hmmm.

4:10 PM FGOSPORTSWRITERJeff Kolpack
@TerryVandrovec I think you're right. I think the FCS coaches who vote on the poll got UND and NDSU mixed up.
NOTE: Inforum has a sports article released in the afternoon stating that both UND and NDSU are ranked.
This is followed by a blog entry which was posted at

5:10 PM FGOSPORTSWRITERJeff Kolpack
The FCS coaches poll: which Dakota was it? | BISON Media Blog http://bisonmedia.areavoices.com/201...dakota-was-it/

At this point the SID makes two tweets in response.

5:54 PM UNDSIDJayson Hajdu
Yup, the voters HAD TO be confused. Thats what we'll go with. No way @UNDfootball could crack that poll just on its own merit (rolls eyes).

5:54 PM UNDSIDJayson Hajdu
If I'm Montana and Montana State, I look into this poll business immediately. Voters could've been mixing them up for years.

6:18 PM FGOSPORTSWRITERJeff Kolpack
I expect it from fb fans, but now I'm getting **** from an SID on a public domain.


I think arguing about who is in a poll or out of poll in the first five/six weeks is kind of silly because most teams have not played enough games. But at this point NDSU had played Lafayette (219) and St. Fran (224) and bye while UND had played Fresno St. (68) , Idaho (119) and Drake (189). It is possible that NDSU could have slid in the polls because of the weak schedule to that point or SID/Coaches mixed up UND/NDSU who knows. But, Mr. Kolpack has been running with this story if you will for more than a week via twitter, radio shows and coach's interviews. I am not saying that the UND SID was right but Kolpack has looked much worse in my opinion.

Okay, I just gotta ask how most of the timeline I posted was wrong? I'll admit I forgot about the blog post(I was working from a 1.5 week old memory). I'll also admit I paraphrased most everything(memory again), but I thought the paraphrasing was pretty obvious and fairly accurate. The first inforum article was meaningless for the discussion because all it gave out were the basic facts and made a slight reference that it was a bit odd that a top-10 team would fall 6 spots after a bye week.

As for the blog post, that's what the blog is there for. It's a place for the Forum & WDAY sports writers to throw out tidbits of information and theories that aren't strong enough or important enough to be put in print. Even then, all Kolpack did was present a possible theory to a mysterious situation. It was UND's SID that pushed things to the next level. Kolpack's blog post was contemplative, the SID's tweets were confrontational. If the SID as a person wanted to say those things, he should have used a personal account. I wouldn't have had a problem with that. But to use an account linked to UND was unprofessional(his twitter handle is UNDSID). In fact, I would argue that it was his reaction that gave the story some legs.

As for anything after that Monday night in print, I saw very little evidence that Kolpack was pushing the mixup theory. I don't listen to sports radio, so I can't comment about that. As for getting proof either way, good luck with that. For whatever reason, the coaches' poll is anonymous. There's no way to contact the coaches(or SIDs/grad assts) to find out how they voted. That's a big reason I put this poll at the bottom of the credibility list.

[SDSF]

Re: UND is Ranked?

Okay, I just gotta ask how most of the timeline I posted was wrong? I'll admit I forgot about the blog post(I was working from a 1.5 week old memory). I'll also admit I paraphrased most everything(memory again), but I thought the paraphrasing was pretty obvious and fairly accurate. The first inforum article was meaningless for the discussion because all it gave out were the basic facts and made a slight reference that it was a bit odd that a top-10 team would fall 6 spots after a bye week.

As for the blog post, that's what the blog is there for. It's a place for the Forum & WDAY sports writers to throw out tidbits of information and theories that aren't strong enough or important enough to be put in print. Even then, all Kolpack did was present a possible theory to a mysterious situation. It was UND's SID that pushed things to the next level. Kolpack's blog post was contemplative, the SID's tweets were confrontational. If the SID as a person wanted to say those things, he should have used a personal account. I wouldn't have had a problem with that. But to use an account linked to UND was unprofessional(his twitter handle is UNDSID). In fact, I would argue that it was his reaction that gave the story some legs.

As for anything after that Monday night in print, I saw very little evidence that Kolpack was pushing the mixup theory. I don't listen to sports radio, so I can't comment about that. As for getting proof either way, good luck with that. For whatever reason, the coaches' poll is anonymous. There's no way to contact the coaches(or SIDs/grad assts) to find out how they voted. That's a big reason I put this poll at the bottom of the credibility list.

I think that the UNDSID was replying to the blog entry by Kolpack.. and it had nothing to do with Kolpack's tweets until after the blog entry. Your timeline/discussion stated that nothing was written and the UNDSID was only replying to a single tweet - simply wrong IMO. After the UNDSID tweet Kolpack replied which lead to the other tweets ... you only provided one side of the conversation... again misleading not defending the UNDSID just plain silly stuff. I feel silly for trying to correct you now because it really is not worth it.

[KUlawJack]

Re: UND is Ranked?

UND has no business being ranked. They beat a non-scholarship team and a DII team. Plus they sucked terribly last year. There is no basis for them to be ranked based on this year's performance or last year's.

[SturgisJeff]

Re: UND is Ranked?

its a secret deal worked out with the NCAA for dropping the Sioux nickname. they are going to be ranked in all major sports for two years no matter how bad the record is as a reward. they will also be given a playoff spot as an at-large and will share in the national title win or lose. get used to it people, it's the new world.

[jackmd]

Re: UND is Ranked?

its a secret deal worked out with the NCAA for dropping the Sioux nickname. they are going to be ranked in all major sports for two years no matter how bad the record is as a reward. they will also be given a playoff spot as an at-large and will share in the national title win or lose. get used to it people, it's the new world.

USD moved up to 16 or 17 in the polls. They have 3 DI wins, none of them against ranked opponents. At best they can finish with 5 DI wins. I think their presence in the polls creates deserved speculation about their relevance. It obviously isn't unique to USD.

[joeybrownerHOF]

Re: UND is Ranked?

USD moved up to 16 or 17 in the polls. They have 3 DI wins, none of them against ranked opponents. At best they can finish with 5 DI wins. I think their presence in the polls creates deserved speculation about their relevance. It obviously isn't unique to USD.

Yote Fan here but I would agree that USD is ranked a bit too high. Personally, I would put them in the 23-30 range. The biggest error might be that SDSU is receiving votes over non scholly Drake. What a farce. Even your boy Sagarin predicts a Drake victory over the Jackrabbits this year. Those darn non schollys.