Selig made the right call

[mango4]

Re: Selig made the right call

So on the day of the perfect game debacle, I was umpiring a game in Sioux City, Iowa and I messed up a call in which, on a hit and run, I called a "caught" foul tip a foul ball, therefore, due to my error, I had to send the runner back to first base. I knew I screwed up as soon as I called it, but the rules state no one can advance on a dead ball (even if it was a mistake), so I had to bite the bullet and tell the coach that I screwed up and that's the reason his runner had to go back to first. The coach was obviously not stoked about my error, but there was no way it bothered him more than it did me, because like many umpires, I take pride in calling the game correctly.

Later that night Jim Joyce made the now "infamous" call at first and I couldn't help but feel bad for the guy. My call earlier in the day forced a runner to go back to first in a lopsided game (and the batter walked within the next couple of pitches, so theoretically my error was undone) and still felt bad about missing that call at the end of the game, so I can't imagine how Jim Joyce must have felt.

I have much respect for both Gallaraga and Jim Joyce after watching how both men handled the situation.

I hated the feeling of getting a call wrong when I umpired, one of the worst feelings in the world.

[Nidaros]

Re: Selig made the right call

I hated the feeling of getting a call wrong when I umpired, one of the worst feelings in the world.

Do you suppose Jocko Johnston OR Collin Kaptiton felt this way when they officiated SDSU bb games in the NCC? I really wonder. I guess what I am saying is that to some people its just a job and when you grown up within the state, you develope prejudices that often cloud one's judgement. Mango is an exception.

[NoVaJack]

Re: Selig made the right call

Can I give a shout out to all umps on this board? Having done it I know how tough it can be and how thankless the job always is. IMHO parents are always 10 times worse than kids, though the tandem can be deady... One game in our Little League (I was not umping, thank God) a parent was banished from the baseline bleachers to behind center field for questioning ump calls. Then, when his kid dropped the F bomb on the umpire as he was returning to the field the next inning, he was thrown out of the game. Never forget the sight of that "father" running, in a full business suit, from center field to confront the ump. He was banned for life from the Little League complex after that.

[SturgisJeff]

Re: Selig made the right call

I liked reffing football but hated doing basketball and baseball.

[SF_Rabbit_Fan]

Re: Selig made the right call

I guess I disagree with most on the board.

Selig should have reversed the call. And instituted some form of expanded instant replay.

Lasers should be used to call balls and strikes.

I appreciate the umpires and referees in amateur and small time athletics. However, for professional sports where millions of dollars are on the line, to ignore existing and affordable technology to make the game more accurate is dumb.

Even with lazer umps behind home plate and instant replay, there is still plenty of room for human error (I don't know why some are so nostalgic for that) between the lines of play.

What if this had happened in a World Series Game 7 with a 1-0 score? Except the pitcher didn't retire the last batter, but they hit a walk off home run? Would anyone here change their mind?

[goon]

Re: Selig made the right call

I am with NoVaJack on this one.

By allowing video to be a part of the game now will lead MLB to keep adding to it as the years go on. What's next, having video or a computer call balls and strikes?

Umpires behind the plate influence EVERY game more than one call at first base in one game ever will. So those roughly 230 calls an umpire makes behind the plate during a game do effect the outcome of the game, just like one call at first base. I like the human element of the game.

I agree, Either use it for everything or don't use it at all. To watch it live with out replay is a close play. rarely do we see obious bad calls. The bad call did not affect the outcome of the game so I say play on.

[jackmd]

Re: Selig made the right call

I guess I disagree with most on the board.

Selig should have reversed the call. And instituted some form of expanded instant replay.

Lasers should be used to call balls and strikes.

I appreciate the umpires and referees in amateur and small time athletics. However, for professional sports where millions of dollars are on the line, to ignore existing and affordable technology to make the game more accurate is dumb.

Even with lazer umps behind home plate and instant replay, there is still plenty of room for human error (I don't know why some are so nostalgic for that) between the lines of play.

What if this had happened in a World Series Game 7 with a 1-0 score? Except the pitcher didn't retire the last batter, but they hit a walk off home run? Would anyone here change their mind?

Thank goodness we share differences of opinion, keeps things interesting. With respect to the scenario you describe, I'm not sure what I'd decide.

I am not familiar with laser umps nor do I know the logistics involved in designing equivalent camera angles and replay capability on fields that vary from place to place. The burden of replay seems much greater than other sports just on the basis of the number of games played and the number of individual plays per game. I've seen K-zone and I'm not convinced it is the answer to accuracy behind the plate.

The guy made the wrong call and cost Gallaraga a perfect game and a piece of history from that perspective. I anticipate I'll remember this 28 out perfect game longer than I'll remember the vast majority of the others.

[JamesJacks]

Re: Selig made the right call

I guess I disagree with most on the board.

Selig should have reversed the call. And instituted some form of expanded instant replay.

Lasers should be used to call balls and strikes.

I appreciate the umpires and referees in amateur and small time athletics. However, for professional sports where millions of dollars are on the line, to ignore existing and affordable technology to make the game more accurate is dumb.

Even with lazer umps behind home plate and instant replay, there is still plenty of room for human error (I don't know why some are so nostalgic for that) between the lines of play.

What if this had happened in a World Series Game 7 with a 1-0 score? Except the pitcher didn't retire the last batter, but they hit a walk off home run? Would anyone here change their mind?

Do you think we should go back through history and reverse every bad call from every sport?

I respect the fact we differ on this topic. But I have to seriously ask you what role umpires would then play for you in the game of baseball you want?

[SF_Rabbit_Fan]

Re: Selig made the right call

Thank goodness we share differences of opinion, keeps things interesting. With respect to the scenario you describe, I'm not sure what I'd decide.

I am not familiar with laser umps nor do I know the logistics involved in designing equivalent camera angles and replay capability on fields that vary from place to place. The burden of replay seems much greater than other sports just on the basis of the number of games played and the number of individual plays per game. I've seen K-zone and I'm not convinced it is the answer to accuracy behind the plate.

The guy made the wrong call and cost Gallaraga a perfect game and a piece of history from that perspective. I anticipate I'll remember this 28 out perfect game longer than I'll remember the vast majority of the others.

I can't disagree with anything you said. I'll certainly remember this one much longer than whats-his-face a few weeks prior.

[1stRowFANatic]

Re: Selig made the right call

In the most recent perfect game, a called third strike on a 3-2 count was very questionable. Very questionable. If Selig was to have changed Joyce's call, should he have taken away that perfect game?


FYI - I haven't seen the call, but two different people that I trust both said it really wasn't close to being a strike and several commentators on the radio have indicated that also. I believe it was in the 6th or 7th inning, so everyone involved was aware a perfect game was on the line. I offer this up more to delineate the difference between changing the call and instituting replay because I think they are different topics.

[NoVaJack]

Re: Selig made the right call

Personally if I never again see a behind of a ref/zebra in a replay booth for five minutes at a time I will consider it a successful life...


Life is too short to obsess on getting it EXACTLY right... Remember that cross-field hail mary pass on a kick return involving the Titans in a playoff game a few years back? That's been replayed a bazillion times and STILL the verdict is out on that one. To paraphrase Albert Belle, video ain't God, man.

Drew Pearson pushed off! It's on tape!


Also, if we're going to go back on baseball umps' calls I want that double by Joe Mauer in the playoffs against the Yankees last year - the one the ump blew and called foul - made right and the playoffs resumed from that point. That might have changed the whole darned series and changed the eventual World Series winner. Believe Joe Girardi called it "a break" when the ump blew it. I'd much rather have a World Series title than five consecutive perfect games by Twins' starters.. So I demand a replay overturn on that one.

[SF_Rabbit_Fan]

Re: Selig made the right call

Personally if I never again see a behind of a ref/zebra in a replay booth for five minutes at a time I will consider it a successful life...


Life is too short to obsess on getting it EXACTLY right... Remember that cross-field hail mary pass on a kick return involving the Titans in a playoff game a few years back? That's been replayed a bazillion times and STILL the verdict is out on that one. To paraphrase Albert Belle, video ain't God, man.

Drew Pearson pushed off! It's on tape!


Also, if we're going to go back on baseball umps' calls I want that double by Joe Mauer in the playoffs against the Yankees last year - the one the ump blew and called foul - made right and the playoffs resumed from that point. That might have changed the whole darned series and changed the eventual World Series winner. Believe Joe Girardi called it "a break" when the ump blew it. I'd much rather have a World Series title than five consecutive perfect games by Twins' starters.. So I demand a replay overturn on that one.

Why can the 1st or 3rd base ump call strikes on check swings? Isn't that basically a 1900 form of instant replay?

It shouldn't take 5 minutes, most replays could be done before the next play (especially in baseball and football when it takes forever in-between plays).

For baseball, it would be pretty simple. Have another ump watching the broadcast in a booth. He gets from the time the play ends until the next play starts to review and overturn a call on the field--other than balls and strikes. It wouldn't take much time at all.

What really bothers me is 60 year old men in baseball uniforms (why do baseball managers wear the uniforms anyway?) waddle out of the dugout to argue for 10 minutes about a call that was either blown or questionable. Surely instant replay wouldn't take as long as that.

[NoVaJack]

Re: Selig made the right call

Why can the 1st or 3rd base ump call strikes on check swings? Isn't that basically a 1900 form of instant replay?

It shouldn't take 5 minutes, most replays could be done before the next play (especially in baseball and football when it takes forever in-between plays).

For baseball, it would be pretty simple. Have another ump watching the broadcast in a booth. He gets from the time the play ends until the next play starts to review and overturn a call on the field--other than balls and strikes. It wouldn't take much time at all.

What really bothers me is 60 year old men in baseball uniforms (why do baseball managers wear the uniforms anyway?) waddle out of the dugout to argue for 10 minutes about a call that was either blown or questionable. Surely instant replay wouldn't take as long as that.

60 year old waddlers are sometimes the best entertainment at games. Seeing Jim Leyland in vein-bulging, near-stroke rage after that game will be an enduring memory. Earl Weaver kicking dirt, Lou Pinella pulling his hat backwards to get nose-to-nose - that's boring?

[1stRowFANatic]

Re: Selig made the right call

It may not be boring, but is something that is not allowed in ANY other sport and completely shoots any argument that the length of games is an issue.