Naters gonna Nate - on the NBA stage

[SF_Rabbit_Fan]

Re: Naters gonna Nate - on the NBA stage

http://stats.nba.com/playerGameLogs....rowsPerPage=25

For those that want to watch highlights of Nate.

[NebraskaJack]

Re: Naters gonna Nate - on the NBA stage

Yes he did play well last night. The first half was his best half as a pro as he went 10pts 3ast 1reb 1stl 1block in 12mins. He also threw a nice fastbreak alley-oop dunk to Giannis again. I am not worried about his 3pt shooting yet. Draymond Green really struggled with his shot until after the all star break and ended up shooting 20% or so from 3 last year. He is up to 36% from 3 and can make the open 3, so I feel that Wolters will start hitting his 3s eventually. He also started to make his midrange shots too which was nice.

Nate's midrange and short game are coming around. He seems to have gained his confidence back taking it to the rack....or at least is picking his spots better. 3pt shooting though, he has missed his last 18 and hasn't made one since November 1st. I'm sure it will come around but he is a little gun shy right now. He has made great strides from his first summer league game until now in all parts of his game.

Coach Drew made comments a few days ago about needing to find time for Nate on the court. After a few DNP's it is good to see him back out there....this time hopefully for good, although with some guys getting healthy in the next week or so Drew will have some hard decisions to make as to sit vets or rookies.

Running total for +/- for the season, Nate leads the team. He definitely keeps things under control when he is out there. They had some real blow outs this season and he has still put up a decent number, not sure why the coaches don't recognize that.

[RabbitObsessed]

Re: Naters gonna Nate - on the NBA stage

One of his 3s last night was a running shot from 35 feet at the end of the quarter. The other was a good look though. 0 for his last 18 is rather upsetting though. Guards need to be able to shoot the 3 in today's NBA.

Running total for +/- for the season, Nate leads the team. He definitely keeps things under control when he is out there. They had some real blow outs this season and he has still put up a decent number, not sure why the coaches don't recognize that.

Not sure how many more times this needs to get mentioned in this thread, but +/- is essentially meaningless in evaluating individual performance. It offers no context. Your blowout comment makes his +/- look even more meaningless. If Nate puts up good numbers in a blowout, he's putting up those numbers against the other team's second unit.

Which isn't to Nate hasn't played well, but citing a team leading +/- doesn't mean much of anything.

[HoboJack]

Re: Naters gonna Nate - on the NBA stage

Nate crosses his defender for a layup.

Found this video via twitter
https://vine.co/v/hxYLzInzBEB

I realize this was about a week ago, but the impressive thing to me in this one, was that Nate finished this drive with his left hand. For most of his college career he got away with using his right hand on drives to the bucket & using English off the glass. After watching several of his early games in the NBA, he was getting shots blocked in the lane due to the fact that he wasn't using his left hand for these shots (see the shots blocked in the first Knicks game for example). Improvements like this shows Nate's BB IQ & willingness to work on his faults.

[witness]

Re: Naters gonna Nate - on the NBA stage

Nate is easily a top 7 rookie right now. I won't be worried about his 3pt% until next year. I'm just enjoying the ride of seeing a Jack playing in the NBA and competing.

[rabidrabbit]

Re: Naters gonna Nate - on the NBA stage

If the +/- has any meaning, it is how the team's performing when that player is there. This is really probably the best measure of how Nate is doing IN RUNNING THE TEAM. We fans always felt that Nate would be great as a floor general, providing assists, steals, and generally making the other players better. The worry of his distractors were that he would be a defensive liability. This +/- information may be the best indication that he indeed is being effective in directing the offensive flow, and that while he's on the floor, in keeping opponents from building their offensive #'s.

Sure, it's not the points, assists, rebounds, steals and blocks for an individuals. It seems to be a measure of TEAM success during playing time.

Of course, I'm a truly unknowledgable fan with my blue/yellow lens watching something in green or ruddy red.

[SF_Rabbit_Fan]

Re: Naters gonna Nate - on the NBA stage

One of his 3s last night was a running shot from 35 feet at the end of the quarter. The other was a good look though. 0 for his last 18 is rather upsetting though. Guards need to be able to shoot the 3 in today's NBA.



Not sure how many more times this needs to get mentioned in this thread, but +/- is essentially meaningless in evaluating individual performance. It offers no context. Your blowout comment makes his +/- look even more meaningless. If Nate puts up good numbers in a blowout, he's putting up those numbers against the other team's second unit.

Which isn't to Nate hasn't played well, but citing a team leading +/- doesn't mean much of anything.

While I generally agree, I think you would have to admit that having the team leading +/- is certainly better than having the worst +/- on the team. Its something.

[RabbitObsessed]

Re: Naters gonna Nate - on the NBA stage

If the +/- has any meaning, it is how the team's performing when that player is there. This is really probably the best measure of how Nate is doing IN RUNNING THE TEAM. We fans always felt that Nate would be great as a floor general, providing assists, steals, and generally making the other players better. The worry of his distractors were that he would be a defensive liability. This +/- information may be the best indication that he indeed is being effective in directing the offensive flow, and that while he's on the floor, in keeping opponents from building their offensive #'s.

Sure, it's not the points, assists, rebounds, steals and blocks for an individuals. It seems to be a measure of TEAM success during playing time.

Of course, I'm a truly unknowledgable fan with my blue/yellow lens watching something in green or ruddy red.

Except it doesn't account for the ability of any other factors. It's like evaluating baseball players based on RBI. This guys is better than that guy because he has more RBI.

+/- doesn't account for teammates that are on the court with you. +/- doesn't account for the players you are playing against.

Those two things alone are enough to negate it. Sure you'd rather have a higher +/- but to say that Nate has been better than any of his teammates based on his +/- is not accurate. You could make that argument using other factors maybe, but not +/-.

[NebraskaJack]

Re: Naters gonna Nate - on the NBA stage

Except it doesn't account for the ability of any other factors. It's like evaluating baseball players based on RBI. This guys is better than that guy because he has more RBI.

+/- doesn't account for teammates that are on the court with you. +/- doesn't account for the players you are playing against.

Those two things alone are enough to negate it. Sure you'd rather have a higher +/- but to say that Nate has been better than any of his teammates based on his +/- is not accurate. You could make that argument using other factors maybe, but not +/-.

I never said that Nate is better than all of his teammates, that is strictly the argument that you are taking up on your own. My entire point is that the team seems to run better when Nate is on the floor. If Nate's entire season was on the second unit and his only game time was against second string or scrub time then your point would be very valid....but in Nate's case he has numerous starts and thanks to Coach Drew's ever shifting rotations, Nate has run with most every unit the Bucks have to offer. I do under stand that the +/- isn't the end all be all of statistics, but you can't just down play that when he is on the floor his team scores more than the other team. I can find just as many people who think that PER is a flawed measurement of performance also.

As for my blowout comments, if you will look at some of the games you will notice that in some cases he was playing with the first string yet still managed to put up a good number, yet when he came out that same group of players lost ground quickly. Nate is quite a ways from being the best player for the Bucks, but I think he has fit in pretty quickly and he honestly isn't far off from being the best point guard on the team. Does that mean he scores the most, has the most assists, has the highest PER.....nope, it means when he is in the games the team pays a more organized style of basketball.

Since you hate +/- so much, I will list where the team stands just to aggravate you a little more......


Wolters +35
Giannis -13
Raduljca -19
Sanders -27
Middleton -49
Pachulia -50
Udoh - 82
Ridnour -91
Ilyasova -92
Butler -106
Knight -111
Henson -151
Mayo -220

[RabbitObsessed]

Re: Naters gonna Nate - on the NBA stage

Edit. I don't care anymore.

[NebraskaJack]

Re: Naters gonna Nate - on the NBA stage

I ran across this the other day and thought it was kind of interesting. This website.....

http://www.mysynergysports.com/ (You have to add Nate's name and choose defense)

.....has Nate currently listed at #28 overall for defensive purposes. As RabbitObsessed correctly pointed out, some of these measurements can be flawed based on whether you are defending 1st or 2nd stringers, or who you are on the floor with so this one also may have to be taken with a grain of salt. This one measures points per shot attempt allowed and that is where Nate falls at this point in the season. The other night in the Chicago game, Nate came in at the 29 second mark in the 4th quarter for defense and came out after Milwaukee got the stop. They turned the ball over on their next offensive possession (jumpball) and Dunleavy hit the winning shot. Who would have thought at this point in his career that Nate would be an end of game sub and it would be for defense instead of offense?

[Jacks#1Fan]

Re: Naters gonna Nate - on the NBA stage

Late to the game, and I don't have an opinion one way or the other on -/+...but I do like the stats that Graham Hays (ESPN) had for Nate, which illustrated as well as is possible, how Nate's presence in the game affects the team. This was a number of games ago, but he pointed out that when Nate was in the game, the team averaged 107 points per 100 possessions, and when he was on the bench, the team averaged 87 points per 100 possessions. I believe that is a direct correlation to the fact that an effective point guard can get a team organized and lead to better scoring opportunites so that the result is better than if they all just play "street" ball. We all know that Nate has that capability, but it was also worthy of note that Coach Larry Drew made comments in a post-game interview that this was a real strength for Nate.

[bigticket1]

Re: Naters gonna Nate - on the NBA stage

Everyone who gets the Fox Sports North channel needs to be watching Saturday night at 7:30 when Nate and the Bucks take on the T-Wolves.

[SanDakotaState]

Re: Naters gonna Nate - on the NBA stage

Everyone who gets the Fox Sports North channel needs to be watching Saturday night at 7:30 when Nate and the Bucks take on the T-Wolves.

I wonder is Coach Drew will give Nate a couple more minutes than usual since its his first game as a pro in his home state. Nate got to play against KG tonight in Brooklyn. Bucks lost 93-104. Bucks are now a league worst 6-23. Nate ended with 5 points (2-5 ; 1-2 from 3) 2 assists, 2 turnovers and 1 steal in 11 minutes. Tom Brokaw was in attendance.

[SanDakotaState]

Re: Naters gonna Nate - on the NBA stage

Bill Simmons (NBA analyst) had some words about Nate defense. When I watch Nate play, it looks like he is one of the better defenders that the Bucks have. In fact, Coach Drew subs in Wolters late in games for his D.

Bill Simmons @BillSimmons3h
When you're playing a Luke Ridnour/Nate Wolters backcourt, how do you decide which guy to abuse in pick-and-roll? Rock paper scissors?