Saints and Bountygate

[MontanaRabbit]

Goodell laid the hammer down on the Saints yesterday.

What's everyone think?

I think he did the right thing. There is no place in the game for rewarding someone for hurting another human being. It's morally wrong. And coupled with the fact that Payton and some of the Saints brass were warned to quit and didn't and then tried to cover it up! C'mon man!

Take the Kurt Warner hit in the playoffs. It was a legal hit, but at the time I thought it looked like they targeted him. Turns out that was likely indeed the case. That hit was totally unnecessary and could have seriously injured Warner.

[RabbitObsessed]

Re: Saints and Bountygate

I don't like Goodell. I think it's kinda bull**** that Payton got suspended for an entire year when Bellicheck didn't even get suspended for a game after actually cheating.

Edit: And I've also read a couple of different sources that say the biggest reason for the punishment is that Williams and Payton lied during the investigation. I'm not sure how accurate that is, but it would fit in with the Goodell NFL Narrative.

[jackrabit1]

Re: Saints and Bountygate

I don't like Goodell. I think it's kinda bull**** that Payton got suspended for an entire year when Bellicheck didn't even get suspended for a game after actually cheating.

Bellicheck never encouraged his players to go out and injure or maim someone for a cash reward.

[goon]

Re: Saints and Bountygate

cheating is more an ethical issue while I see trying to hurt someone more on the moral front. Neither are good but telling your players to hurt some one, pay them and try to cover it up? not good no matter how you slice it.

[rabidrabbit]

Re: Saints and Bountygate

Down here in NOLA, the buzz is that the NFL wanted to assure that the home team doesn't make it to the SuperBowl, hence the timing of the sanctions/penalties. Be interesting to see who the head coach will be here for the Saints.

[RabbitObsessed]

Re: Saints and Bountygate

Bellicheck never encouraged his players to go out and injure or maim someone for a cash reward.

That you know of. I would be extremely surprised if the Saints were the only team in the NFL to do something like this, based on things said by former NFL players.

[jackrabit1]

Re: Saints and Bountygate

But after the punishments handed down by the NFL (so far), I'll bet that if this is going on in other programs, it'll come to stop right quick.

The difference between Bellicheck's punishment and Payton's punishment.... Bill spying on other teams didn't put opposing players' health at an unnecessary risk.

[jackrabit1]

Re: Saints and Bountygate

Put it this way... I know a guy here in Madison that was a pro wrestler for many years. Granted, pro wrestling is scripted and considered "sports entertainment", but he also said there was a code among the wrestlers. And that was that they would look out for each other in the ring. In other words, they'd make sure they weren't deliberately trying to injure or maim the other person. After all, they have to make a living and support a family, too.

Now you turn around and you see a professional football team, who is supposed to be an example of "good" sports and sportsmanship, and they're engaging in behavior that would be considered criminal in almost any other profession. Yes, injuries are going to happen in football-that's never going to be avoided. But to maintain and encourage a formal system that rewards people for injuring and maiming the opposition is beyond any means of decency.

When professional wrestlers have a more defined code of honor than the NFL players, something is definitely wrong.

[MontanaRabbit]

Re: Saints and Bountygate

Bellicheck never encouraged his players to go out and injure or maim someone for a cash reward.

Completely agree. I don't think you can compare the two.

What the Saints were doing could have had long lasting impacts on someone's health. Take the Warner hit. What if that had given him a concussion that gave Kurt complications similar to Justin Morneau? That was not a football play. He was hunted on that play.

That you know of. I would be extremely surprised if the Saints were the only team in the NFL to do something like this, based on things said by former NFL players.

I would be willing to bet this is not an isolated case, however, that doesn't make it right. They were warned to stop the program and didn't. Williams admitted this and also admitted to trying to mislead the NFL investigators. Williams might not ever hold an NFL coaching job again. These suspensions send a message.

[RabbitObsessed]

Re: Saints and Bountygate

I definitely agree that paying players to hurt other players is wrong and ****ed up. I just think the punishment should actually be for that. From what some have insinuated, the NFL made the suspensions so heavy simply because the Saints lied to the NFL about it.

In Bill Barnwell's column, he writes:

Had the two Saints coaches admitted to the bounties in 2010 and stopped the program then, the organization would have gotten away from the crimes with a slap on the wrist. Sure, they would have been fined a few hundred thousand dollars, and Williams might even have been suspended for a game or two, but there's just no precedent for imagining this sort of suspension based solely upon the on-field crimes committed by the Saints. And by handing out these suspensions (without any apparent ability for Payton to appeal to anyone besides Goodell himself), the league is sending a different sort of message to the league's teams. That message isn't "Don't have bounties." It's "Don't lie to us."

I guess I have a problem with that, if that's the reason. I encourage you to read the entire article, it's very good. If you choose not to read it, one of the author's reasons for saying that the punishment is unprecedented is James Harrsion. He is the most fined player in the NFL for illegal hits, but the NFL only punishes him by fines. When he finally did get suspended it was for only one game.

Writers and people everywhere (as evidenced by this thread) are lauding the NFL for "taking a stand" in regaurds to player safety when that isn't necissarily the case. In the article Barnwell goes onto say that if the NFL is truly serious about player safety then the fines and suspensions should be more serious for illegal hits in games, which I think, judging by everyone's sentiments on here, that we can all agree on.

[RabbitObsessed]

Re: Saints and Bountygate

I would also like to add, that while I don't agree 100% with the NFL's reasoning behind the punishment and some of the inconsistencies, it is still roughly 3 million times better than this.

Calling the New Orleans Saints football players bounty scandal “troubling” and “disturbing,” Sen. Dick Durbin, D-Ill., announced today on the Senate floor that he will hold a Judiciary Committee hearing in April about bounties in the NFL.

“A spirit of aggressiveness and competitiveness is an integral part of many sporting contests, but bribing players to intentionally hurt their opponents cannot be tolerated,” Durbin said. “We have to put an end to this.”

[mitchellrabbit]

Re: Saints and Bountygate

I would also like to add, that while I don't agree 100% with the NFL's reasoning behind the punishment and some of the inconsistencies, it is still roughly 3 million times better than this.

Things must be slow on the senate floor that they have get involved in sports.

[JackJD]

Re: Saints and Bountygate

How do the sanctions on the Saints compare to the kick to Michael Vick? I recognize Vick was convicted on breaking criminal laws (hmmm...did the Saints' behavior crossed the line to criminal assault?) but Vick was sanctioned by the NFL, too. I'm no fan of Michael Vick (and I like my Golden Retriever a lot) but, I'm pretty offended that the Saints had an express plan to hurt people. I remember them beating the snot out of Bret Farve and wondering where the refs were.

Will the NFL run a bunch of ads telling us about sportsmanship? I guess this incident is just another reason why I prefer watching college football -- any level -- over most pro games.

[boxerboy]

Re: Saints and Bountygate

I would also like to add, that while I don't agree 100% with the NFL's reasoning behind the punishment and some of the inconsistencies, it is still roughly 3 million times better than this.

Right on the money RO, that's bull s---. Why does the Senate need to get involved? I have my theories.

[RabbitObsessed]

Re: Saints and Bountygate

Will the NFL run a bunch of ads telling us about sportsmanship? I guess this incident is just another reason why I prefer watching college football -- any level -- over most pro games.

Because this has never happened at the college level

Here is a list of

University of Miami bounties

:

-Knock player out of game: $5,000

-Shutting down wide receiver $1,000
-Defensive touchdown: $1,000
-"Hit of the Game": $500 or $1,000
-Return touchdown: $500 or $1,000
-Goal-line stand: $500
C-elebration penalty: $500
-100 yards rushing: $500 per 100 yds
-Interception: $500
-Sack: $250 or $500
-Touchdown $250 or $500
-Fumble recovery: $250 or $500
-Tackle: $50