Augie loses in OT

[jackmd]

Augie lost in OT to SCSU over in Mankato tonight. No playoff appearances for 20 years until 3 straight beginning in 2007. Had they won tonight it would have been their first elite 8 appearance ever.

Coincidence?

The way Augie is performing they ought to move up to DI. They would definitely have more success than SDSU because they have had more success in DII than SDSU was having at the end of their DII era. Augie could probably finish in the top half of the Summit League next year. Lets not forget about SCSU, they are off to the elite 8. The NCC was probably as good a DI conference as most mid-majors (heavy sarcasm here).

Did something happen around 2005 that might have contributed to Augies sudden "rise"? Might have the same happened for other programs? Is it truly a "rise"? Just some food for thought.

[RabbitObsessed]

Re: Augie loses in OT

[Coyote_Fan]

Re: Augie loses in OT

I am not going to take the road of looking down on D2. Augie whipped up on the Coyotes their last year in D2 and had the better team so it's not all just because everyone else left that Augie is having success. Maybe it's the recruiting thing, who knows. I will not look down on Augie I am happy for them that they are having success right now. It really wasn't fair to them that they were competing against huge state schools in athletics. Now they are fighting a fair game and doing quite well at it. Congrats to Augie for stepping up both their mens basketball and football programs.

[Kemo]

Re: Augie loses in OT

Augie lost in OT to SCSU over in Mankato tonight. No playoff appearances for 20 years until 3 straight beginning in 2007. Had they won tonight it would have been their first elite 8 appearance ever.

Coincidence?

The way Augie is performing they ought to move up to DI. They would definitely have more success than SDSU because they have had more success in DII than SDSU was having at the end of their DII era. Augie could probably finish in the top half of the Summit League next year. Lets not forget about SCSU, they are off to the elite 8. The NCC was probably as good a DI conference as most mid-majors (heavy sarcasm here).

Did something happen around 2005 that might have contributed to Augies sudden "rise"? Might have the same happened for other programs? Is it truly a "rise"? Just some food for thought.

Well, you are right that D2 is watered down compared to what it was 5-10 years ago, but I do agree with Coyote Fan (did I just write that?) that it is more of a fair fight for Augie now than it use to be.

[JamesJacks]

Re: Augie loses in OT

This particular Augie team could possibly finish very respectable in the Summit. Didn't they give Arizona a run for their money early this season? But on a year to year basis, that would remain to be seen. Example would be Winona State. They won national titles, but their team this year was nothing special whatsoever. It's tough to have a roster each and every year that could compete that well against D1 teams.

[Nidaros]

Re: Augie loses in OT

This particular Augie team could possibly finish very respectable in the Summit. Didn't they give Arizona a run for their money early this season? But on a year to year basis, that would remain to be seen. Example would be Winona State. They won national titles, but their team this year was nothing special whatsoever. It's tough to have a roster each and every year that could compete that well against D1 teams.

I agree consistency is a problem at all levels. The top 25 seem to have their choice of the cream of the crop. I never saw Augie play but they are well coached. Biltier has been around D1 programs as an assistant plus stopped off at NDSU when they were D2, so he has a wealth of experience and no doubt is very selective in his recruiting.

What sticks in my mind about D2 was that the quickness was not as good as it is at the upper level, plus it almost seem to be a gentleman's agreement in the NCC to allow the opposing team set up their half court offense without any pressure. Thats why turnovers seem to be more of a stat than they were in the NCC. You have to watch your passes and protect the ball bringing it up court in the Summit. I still think SDSU has to develope more skills in this area and keep the turnovers down.

[JACKGUYII]

Re: Augie loses in OT

I'm not going to gloat about a South Dakota team losing that has good coaches, players and fans. They are my preferred D2 team and I'm pulling for them. I also would not predict what would happen if SDSU would have played Augie on a neutral site as they have good players and great coaching. I think Augie should have dropped scholarship football and moved up to DI in other sports as they could have been similiar to a Creighton or Drake as they are in a good size market in terms of population and corporate sponsorships with lots of room to grow and great sports venues.

[JamesJacks]

Re: Augie loses in OT

I think Augie should have dropped scholarship football and moved up to DI in other sports as they could have been similiar to a Creighton or Drake as they are in a good size market in terms of population and corporate sponsorships with lots of room to grow and great sports venues.

I agree 100%.

Has Augie ever considered this?

[JACKGUYII]

Re: Augie loses in OT

According to Bill Gross the AD and Rob Oliver the President there was some discussion about making the move, but in the end they decided to make themselves the best D2 institution they could and upgrade all athletic facilities. I still don't think it's out of the question down the road especially with USF moving up to DII as they definitely have a superiority complex with them. They have a lot of advantages with their location.

[SF_Rabbit_Fan]

Re: Augie loses in OT

Augie lost in OT to SCSU over in Mankato tonight. No playoff appearances for 20 years until 3 straight beginning in 2007. Had they won tonight it would have been their first elite 8 appearance ever.

Coincidence?

The way Augie is performing they ought to move up to DI. They would definitely have more success than SDSU because they have had more success in DII than SDSU was having at the end of their DII era. Augie could probably finish in the top half of the Summit League next year. Lets not forget about SCSU, they are off to the elite 8. The NCC was probably as good a DI conference as most mid-majors (heavy sarcasm here).

Did something happen around 2005 that might have contributed to Augies sudden "rise"? Might have the same happened for other programs? Is it truly a "rise"? Just some food for thought.

I would say Augie has better players, coaches, and administration than they've had for the last 25 years. If they can maintain, they'll have a decent program going. The key is keeping the coach they have now, he's doing a really nice job.

[jackmd]

Re: Augie loses in OT

I'm not going to gloat about a South Dakota team losing that has good coaches, players and fans. They are my preferred D2 team and I'm pulling for them. I also would not predict what would happen if SDSU would have played Augie on a neutral site as they have good players and great coaching. I think Augie should have dropped scholarship football and moved up to DI in other sports as they could have been similiar to a Creighton or Drake as they are in a good size market in terms of population and corporate sponsorships with lots of room to grow and great sports venues.

I was cheering for Augie as I listened to the 2nd half of the game. They had every opportunity to win the thing.

Another question I've pondered. Are the players they have there now more talented than the players they had in the 80's and 90's? I don't think so. I have little doubt that the relative successes of several north central region programs are related to the absence of the premiere programs from the region. Whether that be in men's or women's basketball or football. I'm not gloating about that I'm simply pointing out a fact that is often overlooked.

As for Augie competing in the Summit league, I don't agree. That said, its not really relevant, just a chance to talk about our former NCC colleague.

[Kemo]

Re: Augie loses in OT

I think Augie should have dropped scholarship football and moved up to DI in other sports as they could have been similiar to a Creighton or Drake as they are in a good size market in terms of population and corporate sponsorships with lots of room to grow and great sports venues.

I have to respectfully disagree with the notion that it would have been a good move for Augie to go DI, and I feel they made the right decision by staying DII.

The comparison of Augustana to Drake or Creighton isn't really accurate, as both schools are over double the size of Augie, plus both schools have almost as many graduate students as undergraduates (Augie doesn't have much for post graduate offerings). Add in that Creighton has a medical school and Drake has a law school, and the available booster support and funds are night and day compared with Augie.

In terms of dropping scholarship football for non scholarship football to help with the added costs of DI, doing so wouldn't put much of a dent in the overall increase in expenditures. I believe the NSIC allows the max of 24 football scholarships, and to meet NCAA DI and conference scholarship requirements, Augie would have to add more than that in other sports, not to mention they would have to add more sports to meet these requirements (more increased cost). Also, having a non scholarship, DI-AA football team would probably cost the school more money than having a max-scholarship, DII football team when you consider the travel costs, as there are a lot of DII teams in the region, but very few DI-AA non scholarship teams.

Personally, I think Augie made the right move by not moving.

[Coyote_Fan]

Re: Augie loses in OT

I agree consistency is a problem at all levels. The top 25 seem to have their choice of the cream of the crop. I never saw Augie play but they are well coached. Biltier has been around D1 programs as an assistant plus stopped off at NDSU when they were D2, so he has a wealth of experience and no doubt is very selective in his recruiting.

What sticks in my mind about D2 was that the quickness was not as good as it is at the upper level, plus it almost seem to be a gentleman's agreement in the NCC to allow the opposing team set up their half court offense without any pressure. Thats why turnovers seem to be more of a stat than they were in the NCC. You have to watch your passes and protect the ball bringing it up court in the Summit. I still think SDSU has to develope more skills in this area and keep the turnovers down.

Nidaros,

For me this year has shown me a few things by watching some of the games. The NCC was a slower conference than what I saw this year including non conference games and great west games. There was some good ball in the NCC as the fundamentals seemed just as good and I noticed that by the sloppiness I saw from the teams at the Summit tourney last year (IUPUI, Oakland, S Utah and IPFW). The biggest difference is just athletisism most everything else is fairly similar. There was a little size difference perhaps but the athletisism was the bigger difference. It is tougher to get shots off and definately tougher to defend 5 good players on the court vs maybe 2. A good D2 teams can compete, and sometimes for the long run but the players better be ready not to take as many minutes off as they can in D2. I respect D2 ball as it is a high quality product but at the same time there are no Crookstons and Upper Iowas at this level.

USD did well this year because they played consistantly good basketball this year which was missing from their last few years of D2. Tyler Cain turned into a complete monster and the complimentary players got just a little better across the board. I actually think there is a bigger difference in mens basketball when comparing divisions vs the comparison of FCS and high D2 football. Some may disagree but that is what I believe.