D2 Title Game

[JimmyJack]

Watching Grand Valley coming back on NW Missouri State. Impression? Slow.

[Prairiehaas]

Re: D2 Title Game

Watched some of that game. Faster than the Augie / Emporia game I went to this year but, yes slow.

[BitsTD]

Re: D2 Title Game

WHy hasn't NW Missouri State gone 1AA yet?

[Prairiehaas]

Re: D2 Title Game

Big fish, little pond?

[Coyote_Fan]

Re: D2 Title Game

I wouldn't be so quick to just write off the top D2 teams as being slow or whatever else is used to dimish their level of their play. The top few teams in D2 would definately be able to compete with the level of D1 FCS. The game is also on grass (so not exactly a fast surface) and if pure football speed was the only factor to successfull football I am not so sure SDSU would be as highly regarded as they are. I hope most of your fans look back fondly at your roots instead of slamming down the iron fist on D2. Having more scholarships certainly helps but just because a program is D1 doesn't necessarily make them better than a D2 program. I am not referring to SDSU as a bad program by any means but it certainly isn't a foregone conclusion that SDSU would defeat the Bearcats or Lakers for that matter. If you put USD and NW Missouri on a neutral field and put a gun to my head and made me choose I would pick the Bearcats to win the game.

[Prairiehaas]

Re: D2 Title Game

CF no one slammed an iron fist on DII in these posted. The comment was that the play appeared slow as compared to what we've seen on the field with FCS teams.
Also, no one here said State was exceptionally fast.

I will most certainly say that overall team speed has improved at State. That I believe has contributed significantly to success for this program. You may also notice with your Coyotes, that as overall team speed impoves so will consistentcy of play.

[KUlawJack]

Re: D2 Title Game

I wouldn't be so quick to just write off the top D2 teams as being slow or whatever else is used to dimish their level of their play. The top few teams in D2 would definately be able to compete with the level of D1 FCS. The game is also on grass (so not exactly a fast surface) and if pure football speed was the only factor to successfull football I am not so sure SDSU would be as highly regarded as they are. I hope most of your fans look back fondly at your roots instead of slamming down the iron fist on D2. Having more scholarships certainly helps but just because a program is D1 doesn't necessarily make them better than a D2 program. I am not referring to SDSU as a bad program by any means but it certainly isn't a foregone conclusion that SDSU would defeat the Bearcats or Lakers for that matter. If you put USD and NW Missouri on a neutral field and put a gun to my head and made me choose I would pick the Bearcats to win the game.

We are a top ten team in FCS this year. We would beat them. Gimme a break.

I watched that game and agree with all who said it was slow. We play on natural grass and our team, especially on defense is significantly faster than that. I can't even believe this is being compared.

[mitchellrabbit]

Re: D2 Title Game

I wouldn't be so quick to just write off the top D2 teams as being slow or whatever else is used to dimish their level of their play. The top few teams in D2 would definately be able to compete with the level of D1 FCS. The game is also on grass (so not exactly a fast surface) and if pure football speed was the only factor to successfull football I am not so sure SDSU would be as highly regarded as they are. I hope most of your fans look back fondly at your roots instead of slamming down the iron fist on D2. Having more scholarships certainly helps but just because a program is D1 doesn't necessarily make them better than a D2 program. I am not referring to SDSU as a bad program by any means but it certainly isn't a foregone conclusion that SDSU would defeat the Bearcats or Lakers for that matter. If you put USD and NW Missouri on a neutral field and put a gun to my head and made me choose I would pick the Bearcats to win the game.

give yourself a couple more years of watching FCS teams. then your opinion will change. i watched my first d2 game since sdsu went d1, augie played someone, cant remember who it was. the first comments from my kids were how small the players looked. there is a difference. i think you'll change your mind in a few years.

[Coyote_Fan]

Re: D2 Title Game

Ironically USD's fastest receiver and runningback just happened to play on the Yotes when they were D2 in Logan and Gearman. I have now gotten to watch a few FCS teams play in the Dakotadome. I haven't noticed a huge difference in the speed of the game. Maybe slight but not huge. The biggest difference I have noticed is that there are no cupcakes like you will find in the lower level of D2 more in particular the NSIC as they were several years ago. Granted the NSIC has improved but still relatively weak. One thing I have noticed is that the teams from the West and South might be quicker but they also sacrafise in size a bit. From what I saw the upper level NCC teams that I saw in USD's last few years of D2 were at or just slightly behind the level of the teams I saw come into Vermillion this year. SE Louisiana IMO might not have finished in the top 2 or 3 of the NCC is many years. UC Davis was the most impressive team I saw and S Utah wasn't very impressive to me but they also had a bad game because they were better in other games.

From what I saw out of USD they are about on par from the last few teams they had in D2. A few things they do better (mostly defense) a few things not as good. It's my opinion that the grind of D1 FCS is the most difficult part of it. It's like playing UND and UNO every week instead of getting a few cupcake games in between. So far the Yotes are doing almost exactly how I thought they would do on this level. USD had a good team in 2005 and 2006. The USD team of 2006 got completely out classed by Grand Valley so I think Grand Valley doesn't have to give an inch to a good majority of FCS programs. If USF can be competitive with UND than it's alot less of a stretch to asssume the best D2 teams could give most FCS teams all they could handle.

[Coyote_Fan]

Re: D2 Title Game

give yourself a couple more years of watching FCS teams. then your opinion will change. i watched my first d2 game since sdsu went d1, augie played someone, cant remember who it was. the first comments from my kids were how small the players looked. there is a difference. i think you'll change your mind in a few years.

I thought SE LA looked small as well. They may have been quick but their speed was barely a problem for the Coyotes. Augie is not exactly a top D2 team at least they weren't a couple of years ago.

My opinion has not really changed over the past few years. D1 FCS as a whole is better than D2 as a whole. No one is going to legitimately argue that point. There is always overlap between divisions though. App State would likely finish in the middle of the pack or maybe higher in most FBS conferences. Minnesota from what I have seen from them would not win the Valley in football. They would probably finish about 2nd or 3rd place, who knows. Remember they would have to go on the road for half of those games.

If NW Missouri was in the Valley I think they would finish at least middle of the pack if not higher. They would be in the geographic footprint so they would be the ideal program to make a comparison if there was one. Do I think Minnesota and NW Missouri would be a competitive game. Yes I do think it would be. It's not always about just pure talent but being coached well and just knowing how to play well would count for something for the Bearcats. No one would have given USF much of a chance up in Grand Forks but of course now that they actually won the FCS people are going to do everything they can to write it off as something more than it was. Of course I use actual on field performance as my measuring stick and don't buy into most excuses such as UND wasn't ready for the game. That doesn't stick in my book. But the USF, UND example is not all I go on. It's the seveal examples of D2 schools winning on the road against D1 FCS schools that I use to make my opinions.

[mitchellrabbit]

Re: D2 Title Game

I thought SE LA looked small as well. They may have been quick but their speed was barely a problem for the Coyotes. Augie is not exactly a top D2 team at least they weren't a couple of years ago.

My opinion has not really changed over the past few years. D1 FCS as a whole is better than D2 as a whole. No one is going to legitimately argue that point. There is always overlap between divisions though. App State would likely finish in the middle of the pack or maybe higher in most FBS conferences. Minnesota from what I have seen from them would not win the Valley in football. They would probably finish about 2nd or 3rd place, who knows. Remember they would have to go on the road for half of those games.

If NW Missouri was in the Valley I think they would finish at least middle of the pack if not higher. They would be in the geographic footprint so they would be the ideal program to make a comparison if there was one. Do I think Minnesota and NW Missouri would be a competitive game. Yes I do think it would be. It's not always about just pure talent but being coached well and just knowing how to play well would count for something for the Bearcats. No one would have given USF much of a chance up in Grand Forks but of course now that they actually won the FCS people are going to do everything they can to write it off as something more than it was. Of course I use actual on field performance as my measuring stick and don't buy into most excuses such as UND wasn't ready for the game. That doesn't stick in my book. But the USF, UND example is not all I go on. It's the seveal examples of D2 schools winning on the road against D1 FCS schools that I use to make my opinions.

so then youre thinking a d2 team could beat a big 10 team? not only minnesota but minnesota beat mich st, northwestern and purdue. northwestern finished tied for 4th in the big 10. and that was a road win for the gophers. mich st and northwestern are going to bowl games. you'll change your opinion in a few yrs, i guarantee. im guess if sdsu wasnt having so much success in football, you wouldnt have that opinion. it just kills you to see sdsu having success at anything. the first year the yotes make the playoffs, you'll change your mind.

[filbert]

Re: D2 Title Game

so then youre thinking a d2 team could beat a big 10 team? not only minnesota but minnesota beat mich st, northwestern and purdue. northwestern finished tied for 4th in the big 10. and that was a road win for the gophers. mich st and northwestern are going to bowl games. you'll change your opinion in a few yrs, i guarantee. im guess if sdsu wasnt having so much success in football, you wouldnt have that opinion. it just kills you to see sdsu having success at anything. the first year the yotes make the playoffs, you'll change your mind.

Discuss posts, not posters please.

I would just note that SDSU was one first down away from beating a team at their place--and that team is now going to the D-I football national championship.

Arguing about whether or not FCS is really humongously amazingly really quite a lot better than D-II or just generally better seems to me to be rather pointless, but then, what's a message board for?

[propar80]

Re: D2 Title Game

I was able to watch the entire d-2 championship game and then I watched the entire App. State vs. Montana Semi-final game today. If anyone thinks the two even resembled one another in the slightest, other than it being two football games...I've got oceanview property in DeSmet I'd like to sell you.


Go Jacks!!

[Coyote_Fan]

Re: D2 Title Game

D2 is an interesting division. It probably has the biggest disparity between the haves and have nots. When I say that D2's could give FCS teams a run for their money that certainly does not apply to all D2 teams, just the top echelon. Whether that means top 5, top 10 or whatever that would be up to interpretation. I will be impressed with several D1's that come to Vermillion in future years that is for sure. Anytime a program like App St can go into the big house and take away a victory just bodes well for the FCS. Same with Cal Poly nearly beating a very good Wisconsin team. I have no reason whatsoever to play favorites when making my comments. USD is D1 now so I am obviously not suddenly changing my tone just because they are in a different division. I simply try to see things without bias as much as I can. This is nothing for or against USD or SDSU. Just honest observations whether they are right or wrong. SDSU should be commended for building up their program. They made Montana look very pedestrain for a big portion of their game vs the Griz. I was actually cheering for App St today because like many SDSU fans I don't really have a fondness for Montana. I think any program that signs contracts and breaks them is just kind of playing below the belt and breaking not only a written agreement but also the moral agreement in living up to their end of a bargain.

Sorry for getting off track a bit there. I always find it interesting when these discussions go on in how competitive the respective divisions of college athletics are against each other. There is usually a drastic difference in perspective depending if a given matchup is seen from the higher division or the lower division. I am sure Jacks fans were giving SDSU a fighting chance against Minnesota and many were expecting a very good game if not a win. I expected a good game for sure. If you were one that thought SDSU would matchup well with Minnesota please also see the other side of the coin if an upper D2 club thinks they could compete with a FCS club.

[JimmyJack]

Re: D2 Title Game

Those two teams in the D2 title game were very good. But overall, the speed of the game was not what it is at the top levels of FCS. That's not to say there aren't fast players in D2. But not as many. The overall speed on the field is less.

Nobody's dogging on D2. But nobody who watched that game yesterday could honestly say there isn't a noticeable difference in the speed on the field there and, for example, in the Montana vs. App State game.

Can I get a show of hands? Who's sick of the "the top of D2 is just as good as FCS" baloney? If that's the case, how come USD wasn't undefeated last year? Shepard is as good a QB as any. And there are a couple of very fast guys on USD's team (watched the Montana State game). But overall, USD isn't fast enough yet. They will be. But they're not yet.