USD vs. UND (bball)

[RabbitObsessed]

They (I mean U) lost the women's game today, by the way. Just trying to oblige.

Figured I'd start a new thread instead of creating thread-drift. As the doctor stated, the women lost. He could probably give more insight than I can because I didn't go until the men's game and don't even know the score of the women's game.

The men's game was a lot of fun. The student crowd was really into it, with a a row of people about 3 or 4 deep standing practically on the court and getting into the game. USD jumped out to a huge lead at half with Jesse Becker hitting a layup with about 4 seconds left and then he stole the inbounds pass and hit another lay-up at the buzzer. Becker was on fire tonight and played a really really good game. THE U was up by about 20 at half time and they came out in the second half and basically slept walk for about 11 min, letting UND come back to about 5 or 6 down.

USD couldn't hit free-throws worth anything. Steve Smith really struggled, not getting much of anything to fall. Tyler Cain is a freak. Dude finally has a pollished offensive game and could not be stopped. He is the real deal. Jesse was awesome. Louie was not. Roman Gentry can jump out of the gym, but he has a super-sloppy offensive game. Grimsley couldn't hit much, but he is a great rebounder and defender and is going to missed. They are going to struggle at guard next year.

They looked really, really good tonight. When they went full out, UND didn't belong on the same floor. That being said, I have no idea who UND has played and how good they are.

Please don't make this into a smack thread.

[rabidrabbit]

Re: USD vs. UND (bball)

Congrats to the Yotes on beating their transition partner/rival both games on the mens side.

Thanks RO for starting this as it's own thread.

[filbert]

Re: USD vs. UND (bball)

I'm quite sincere in hoping that some day USD will enjoy a Saturday night as fantastic as we had up in Brookings tonight vs. Oakland--our ranked women beating the most talented rival in the conference, and our men getting a huge win for the program in front of a big and vocal crowd.

The success of one school doesn't take anything away from the other---sometimes it's hard to remember that.

Good luck to USD as y'all make your way through the transition.

[jackmd]

Re: USD vs. UND (bball)

I don't have many details on the women's game, wasn't able to listen to it or watch it in Brookings. I didn't expect USD to beat the Sioux, USD is down just a bit right now and they are redshirting their most talented player, Hegge.

As for the men, UND is down and has been for quite a while. That said, I'm sure they circled these 2 games as the most important for them. USD is deeper and more talented and Dave Boots is a winner. Congrats to the Coyotes now go out and schedule some more DI teams.

[1stRowFANatic]

Re: USD vs. UND (bball)

This is not intended to be smackish and I hope it doesn't bring this thread in that direction, but after reading the Argus about both sets of games, I hope the idea of needing to play your "old" rivals is dead. USD, in what they billed as their biggest rivalry game against an opponent that they have a long history with and is well known to their average fans, had approximately 3000 in attendance.

On the same day, SDSU for an annual event game (but not the biggest rival), against an opponent that they were playing for the fourth time and against an opponent that is not well known by the average fans, had approximately 5600 in attendance.

Basically USD would have to increase by half the attendance for the biggest rival to match what SDSU had in attendance last night. Can they do that in 5 years, sure they can, but I think this shows more than anything else that the transition time is horrible, but success can be had outside of the old "D2-NCC" thinking mindset.

Sorry, the end of that got a little smackish.

[yotemeal]

Re: USD vs. UND (bball)

I’m not sure any profound conclusions can be drawn from the disparity in attendance between SDSU’s and USD’s weekend games. I’m a solid USD fan, but I’ve never truly thought of UND as “the rival.” The game has been marketed as such, but that doesn’t mean all USD fans truly subscribe to that notion. Moreover, I think what most Coyote fans are hungry for is truly meaningful conference competition and races for championships. Yes, I suppose UND serves as a default rival – and they do create a bigger draw because they are a remnant of the old, full-force NCC – but it’s sort of a game of artificial importance at this point. USD fans will continue to generate adequate support for the athletes, but until we’re through this transition and we’ve settled into a conference, the true “excitement” will be limited. I don’t feel a lack of pride or optimism by the transition; in fact, I drove 8 hours round trip to watch the games Saturday in Vermillion. SDSU has a lot of things to be excited about right now. Hats off. In a matter of time, I have every reason to believe the same energy will be back in Vermillion.

[1stRowFANatic]

Re: USD vs. UND (bball)

That was my point. For the last 4 or 5 years we have heard, "look at how low attendance is" and "no one is interested in these Summit teams" and "you used to pack the place for NCC games." Well, the transition time frame we have just moved out of and that USD is just beginning was a bigger factor, IMO, than the change to D1. USD is just getting in to the transition phase and when conference possibilities that have post season implications return, then you may see things return again. You can't market an in-season game to have post-season implications when you have no post-season possibilities. That is why I think there was the huge disparity in attendances. SDSU couldn't do it, and I don't think any university could. Fans are not dumb, sometimes irrational though.

The Jacks are fighting for conference tourney seeding to try and get to March Madness. The Yotes are fighting for what? It is going to be bigger draw for Jacks fans. The team has been improving and has a realistic shot at a 4 or 5 seed in the Summit which is much better than going in as an 8 seed. And this interest is being created while we are not playing any of the "traditional" rivals other than NDSU? Opponents of SDSU's move to D1 said SD kids will never get to what it was like playing in the NCC at Frost Arena, well I think that has been put to rest because of a night against a team from Oakland, MI.

[sfjacksfan99]

Re: USD vs. UND (bball)

That was my point. For the last 4 or 5 years we have heard, "look at how low attendance is" and "no one is interested in these Summit teams" and "you used to pack the place for NCC games." Well, the transition time frame we have just moved out of and that USD is just beginning was a bigger factor, IMO, than the change to D1. USD is just getting in to the transition phase and when conference possibilities that have post season implications return, then you may see things return again. You can't market an in-season game to have post-season implications when you have no post-season possibilities. That is why I think there was the huge disparity in attendances. SDSU couldn't do it, and I don't think any university could. Fans are not dumb, sometimes irrational though.

The Jacks are fighting for conference tourney seeding to try and get to March Madness. The Yotes are fighting for what? It is going to be bigger draw for Jacks fans. The team has been improving and has a realistic shot at a 4 or 5 seed in the Summit which is much better than going in as an 8 seed. And this interest is being created while we are not playing any of the "traditional" rivals other than NDSU? Opponents of SDSU's move to D1 said SD kids will never get to what it was like playing in the NCC at Frost Arena, well I think that has been put to rest because of a night against a team from Oakland, MI.

You listen to Stu Whitney and Craig Mattick too much.

The rest of the post is on the button. Fighting for a conference title and a conference tournament berth are huge when it comes to attendance. That's the main reason why twice as many showed up to watch a team from Michigan versus a "rival". I hope the last doubleheader in Brookings brings as much buzz as last night.

[1stRowFANatic]

Re: USD vs. UND (bball)

I haven't listened to KWSN for years, and only read Stu if he is brought up on this board. Those comments were all made by family, friends and/or co-workers.

[Lakesbison]

Re: USD vs. UND (bball)

UND is 3-0 vs the DAC this winter.. with a "ducking" of jamestown due to weather.

buzzer beater vs minot state

overtime win vs mayville.

welcome to divison 1..... *shakes head, embarassing up there*

[yotemeal]

Re: USD vs. UND (bball)

I think we’re on the same page in the sense that we both acknowledge that SDSU has a ton of momentum while USD sort of has to hype games that simply aren’t as meaningful. I think we’d both acknowledge that’s a pretty natural part of the transition process. Where we part ways – and I apologize if I’m misinterpreting your post – is in your subtle assertion that old NCC rivalries can’t bolster the excitement of these Summit League games. If USD joins the Summit, people will be hanging from the rafters at Frost and the Dome, and at stake will be in-state bragging rights and conference position. I’d rather not argue about which people from which school thought moving to Division I was a good idea (because there certainly wasn’t a vote taken amongst either school’s supporters). What I can say is that I’m excited at the thought of some of the old NCC rivals squaring off again with better talent and more at stake. You’re seeing dividends with NDSU, and the reward will be even greater with USD.

[Yote53]

Re: USD vs. UND (bball)

Another factor on attendance at the USD/UND games was the start times, 1PM and 3PM. Right smack in the middle of the day. I'm sure that kept a few people at home.

I agree that USD's basketball "hype" is lacking right now because there really is nothing to play for. Football is pretty good though. There is a "conference" title to play for and next year's schedule has some really good games.

UND fits as a football rival, and I do see them as a football rival given the long history of competition, the traveling trophy, the tightly contested battles the last four or five years.

I do not see UND as a basketball rival, however.

[RabbitObsessed]

Re: USD vs. UND (bball)

Another factor on attendance at the USD/UND games was the start times, 1PM and 3PM. Right smack in the middle of the day. I'm sure that kept a few people at home.

I agree that USD's basketball "hype" is lacking right now because there really is nothing to play for. Football is pretty good though. There is a "conference" title to play for and next year's schedule has some really good games.

UND fits as a football rival, and I do see them as a football rival given the long history of competition, the traveling trophy, the tightly contested battles the last four or five years.

I do not see UND as a basketball rival, however.

Have you been to many bball games this year, Y53? Has Tyler Cain been playing as well as he did on Saturday? It looks like he finally has a polished offensive game.

[JackJD]

Re: USD vs. UND (bball)

Time out, friends. It's one thing to give a report about college athletics generally but its another thing when USD fans carry on a discussion about their team on a board which is "Of, by, and for South Dakota State Jackrabbits fans."

So, this thread is officially closed.

Added later:
I received an inquiry from a USD partisan about the rationale for closing the thread. His point was this: Isn't this what the College Athletics section is for? Here's the response I sent by a reply private message:

Look at the subject of the thread. Next, look at the last three posts (prior to my post) about the thread. It was turning into a discussion about USD men's basketball. The last post inquired of the other USD posters how Cain looked.

Now, go to the top of the message board on your screen and read what it says immediately below "SDSUFans.com Forum" : "Of, by, and for South Dakota State Jackrabbits fan."

I think it's fine to present news about USD athletics in the "College Athletics" section. I have done so myself. But, going into a discussion among USD fans is out of place. As you know, USD has a fan message board that is picking up new participants and increasing interest. That's a great place for inquiring about how Cain is playing. If I want current news on USD athletics, the USD Fan Message Board is one of the places I look.

Last, show me another thread on the College Athletics section in which there is an on-going discussion about a school other than SDSU. Look at the "College Athletics" section for many examples of news about College Athletics, including USD. That's the purpose of that section: news items about other schools and college athletics generally.

After sending the foregoing, I went back to this thread and looked at the opening post. It was a report of USD's men beating UND on the hardcourt. No problem with that. The last three posts, all from USD fans (they're welcome posters), do the following: Yotemeal drifts toward whether USD and SDSU should play and predicts great rewards for SDSU in playing USD; Yote53 comments on attendance and whether UND is going to be a rival of USD (I take it: in the long term); RabbitObserver: quotes Yote53 and asks how a guy named Tyler Cain looked in the UND game.

A discussion about another team might be okay if SDSU fans were participating. But, we had a little USD intramural discussion going on.
There was nothing offensive about any of the posts. Moderators have stopped thread drift many times. Another version of thread drift (school drift?) was occurring. That's all. Carry on.

Filbert adds: I'm a bit conflicted about this thread being closed. At first glance, I think the trigger may have been pulled a bit quickly, but on the other hand I come down agreeing with JackJD that USD fans have a board of their own where they can carry on discussions of Coyote athletics. I don't necessarily see this as a slam-dunk decision, however. I guess the deciding thought in my mind is that if I have the choice of hosting a discussion between USD fans here, or directing the discussion over to the USD board to get it more traffic, I'd prefer to do the latter, primarily in the interest of building up the USD community.

Therefore, I think we'll let this thread remain closed without prejudice--future discussions of USD teams/games/athletics in the College Athletics section here will be judged upon the merits of the discussion and the comity of the overall discussion tone.