UND 38, Idaho State 35

[JimmyJack]

Congrats to the Sioux on their first FCS win of transition.

I think it's worth noting that UND had a tough scrap on its hands with one of the lesser teams in the Big Sky. They won, of course, but it probably says something about relative depth of FCS teams versus transition teams. Just having a full, or nearly a full complement of scholarships for one year does you little good. It just means you have 36 grown men with scholarships and 27 high school kids with scholarships. Football is about both physical and mental maturity. It takes a few years to build up depth even on a 63-scholarship team. I think UND and USD are finding that out. That doesn't mean they aren't going to be pretty darned good in a couple of years, but it takes time, no matter what CF and others say about D2's parity with FCS.

Nonetheless, UND went on the road and won. No surprise since that's a good program in Grand Forks.

[rabidrabbit]

Re: UND 38, Idaho State 35

Congrats to the Sioux on their first FCS win of transition.

I think it's worth noting that UND had a tough scrap on its hands with one of the lesser teams in the Big Sky. They won, of course, but it probably says something about relative depth of FCS teams versus transition teams. Just having a full, or nearly a full complement of scholarships for one year does you little good. It just means you have 36 grown men with scholarships and 27 high school kids with scholarships. Football is about both physical and mental maturity. It takes a few years to build up depth even on a 63-scholarship team. I think UND and USD are finding that out. That doesn't mean they aren't going to be pretty darned good in a couple of years, but it takes time, no matter what CF and others say about D2's parity with FCS.

Nonetheless, UND went on the road and won. No surprise since that's a good program in Grand Forks.

Sioux next game is SE LA, same team that just played USD, and won by 1 when Coyotes went for 2 to win game rather that PAT kick to tie. Be a pretty direct measure of the relative strengths between UND/USD.

[Nidaros]

Re: UND 38, Idaho State 35

UND in the NCC seem to pride itself in good defense. No doubt giving up 35 points raises a few questions about their D. I know they lost a few D coordinators over the years, and usually had some very quick Linebackers but that may no longer be the case.

[Coyote_Fan]

Re: UND 38, Idaho State 35

Sioux next game is SE LA, same team that just played USD, and won by 1 when Coyotes went for 2 to win game rather that PAT kick to tie. Be a pretty direct measure of the relative strengths between UND/USD.

Ditto

USD at Northern Iowa
SDSU at Northern Iowa

If you want to make one argument be consistant across the board.

I also find it interesting that SDSU is already 0-3 or is it 0-4 against UNI, whereas UND won against UNI on their first try. USD almost did the same.

Never have I mentioned that D2 is better or even the same as D1 FCS. What I have said is that the top level of D2 (including much of the NCC) is on NEAR equal footing with mainstream D1 FCS. A difference in depth and other little things is the difference in my opinion. But for the top D2 programs much of that difference can be made up in areas such as coaching.

UND still hasn't lost to a FCS school since they started playing them a couple of years ago. The biggest difference between UND and USD as a program is that UND knows how to finish games and win them whereas USD doesn't know how to finish games. That is certainly no difference than when both were in D2.

I have respect for D1 FCS and I am happy that USD is in that division. I think it's a great division to be in, considering schools can be relatively competitive a short time after making the jump. Those schools have to be competitive in D2 though for the jump to be made easier. I also have respect for the top level of D2 as well. It's a good division in it's own but the problem with D2 is the bottom end schools trying to pull everyone else down to their level.

[jackmd]

Re: UND 38, Idaho State 35

Ditto

USD at Northern Iowa
SDSU at Northern Iowa

If you want to make one argument be consistant across the board.

I also find it interesting that SDSU is already 0-3 or is it 0-4 against UNI, whereas UND won against UNI on their first try. USD almost did the same.

Never have I mentioned that D2 is better or even the same as D1 FCS. What I have said is that the top level of D2 (including much of the NCC) is on NEAR equal footing with mainstream D1 FCS. A difference in depth and other little things is the difference in my opinion. But for the top D2 programs much of that difference can be made up in areas such as coaching.

UND still hasn't lost to a FCS school since they started playing them a couple of years ago. The biggest difference between UND and USD as a program is that UND knows how to finish games and win them whereas USD doesn't know how to finish games. That is certainly no difference than when both were in D2.

I have respect for D1 FCS and I am happy that USD is in that division. I think it's a great division to be in, considering schools can be relatively competitive a short time after making the jump. Those schools have to be competitive in D2 though for the jump to be made easier. I also have respect for the top level of D2 as well. It's a good division in it's own but the problem with D2 is the bottom end schools trying to pull everyone else down to their level.

You are close CF, very close but you have one issue you still need to resolve in your own mind before you get there. Similar to the yotes, very close is much better than not even being in the ballpark. Good news is, I think you are going to make it and so might Udot. They key point is that you AREN'T THERE YET.

Here is a hint, we were able to compete with DIAA teams before the FCS was created while we were D2 for ONE GAME a year. That does not NECESSARILY transmit into automatic success when you are full-fledged FCS. I don't no any reasonably intelligent SDSU fan that expected us to be a top 20 team at this level this soon. Heck, without the increased commitment to football there is no way we would be where we are now. I think Udot has made that commitment and it might pay off. Can you assume that USD will be immediately competitive at the FCS level when they play a full schedule? I can answer that for myself but I'm not sure your are quite there yet CF.

[jacksfaninne]

Re: UND 38, Idaho State 35

Ditto

USD at Northern Iowa
SDSU at Northern Iowa

If you want to make one argument be consistant across the board.

Because you miss one huge difference, you're comparing apples and oranges:

USD at Northern Iowa: Non-Conference yawner
SDSU at Northern Iowa: Conference game against first-place team

[89rabbit]

Re: UND 38, Idaho State 35

Ditto

USD at Northern Iowa
SDSU at Northern Iowa

If you want to make one argument be consistant across the board.

I also find it interesting that SDSU is already 0-3 or is it 0-4 against UNI, whereas UND won against UNI on their first try. USD almost did the same.

Never have I mentioned that D2 is better or even the same as D1 FCS. What I have said is that the top level of D2 (including much of the NCC) is on NEAR equal footing with mainstream D1 FCS. A difference in depth and other little things is the difference in my opinion. But for the top D2 programs much of that difference can be made up in areas such as coaching.

UND still hasn't lost to a FCS school since they started playing them a couple of years ago. The biggest difference between UND and USD as a program is that UND knows how to finish games and win them whereas USD doesn't know how to finish games. That is certainly no difference than when both were in D2.

I have respect for D1 FCS and I am happy that USD is in that division. I think it's a great division to be in, considering schools can be relatively competitive a short time after making the jump. Those schools have to be competitive in D2 though for the jump to be made easier. I also have respect for the top level of D2 as well. It's a good division in it's own but the problem with D2 is the bottom end schools trying to pull everyone else down to their level.

Let the D-II thing go. You are D-I now (a non-counter, but still D-I transitional). If you want to compare, they have these things called polls. Last I checked SDSU is a Top 20 team, UND received a handful of votes and USD was nowhere to be found. About sums it up for me.


Go State!

[Coyote_Fan]

Re: UND 38, Idaho State 35

You are close CF, very close but you have one issue you still need to resolve in your own mind before you get there. Similar to the yotes, very close is much better than not even being in the ballpark. Good news is, I think you are going to make it and so might Udot. They key point is that you AREN'T THERE YET.

Here is a hint, we were able to compete with DIAA teams before the FCS was created while we were D2 for ONE GAME a year. That does not NECESSARILY transmit into automatic success when you are full-fledged FCS. I don't no any reasonably intelligent SDSU fan that expected us to be a top 20 team at this level this soon. Heck, without the increased commitment to football there is no way we would be where we are now. I think Udot has made that commitment and it might pay off. Can you assume that USD will be immediately competitive at the FCS level when they play a full schedule? I can answer that for myself but I'm not sure your are quite there yet CF.

There is no doubt that USD has some improving to do. No one disputes that. I think the first true indication of where USD is at will be able to be made after the 2009 season. At that point they will have been in FCS for 2 years with a schedule that will be starting to be more reasonable. The early signs are mostly good. The Yotes are not being overwelmed so the next step will be to get a win. They have a couple of more reasonable chances. What is holding back the program is all the practice sessions they are having in the Dome called games. Those don't do much other than give some guys playing time.

[Coyote_Fan]

Re: UND 38, Idaho State 35

Because you miss one huge difference, you're comparing apples and oranges:

USD at Northern Iowa: Non-Conference yawner
SDSU at Northern Iowa: Conference game against first-place team

Then according to your logic we should not draw anything from the comparison since there really isn't one. Afterall UNI really didn't show up for the game against the Yotes, despite the fact that they lost to a very similar team a couple of years ago in UND. Believe that if you will. If you want to use that everytime a comparison doesn't make the Jacks come out smelling like roses that is up to you. Unfortunately I am a little more objective than that.

[MilwaukeeJacksAlum]

Re: UND 38, Idaho State 35

Then according to your logic we should not draw anything from the comparison since there really isn't one. Afterall UNI really didn't show up for the game against the Yotes, despite the fact that they lost to a very similar team a couple of years ago in UND. Believe that if you will. If you want to use that everytime a comparison doesn't make the Jacks come out smelling like roses that is up to you. Unfortunately I am a little more objective than that.

I was at the game and talked to quite a few UNI fans while watching my daughter run around on the field after the game had finished. Several comparisons were made between SDSU and USD and the qualities of each game by the UNI fans. I never brought it up because I think any comparisons are worthless. Thus, I'm not going to relay what was said because I think it's pointless. Each team is different each game. So many factors play into each game it's impossible to make any semblence out of anything except direct head-to-head action. For example, if you merely compare scores, SDSU is something like a 5 TD favorite over NDSU based on their one common opponent, YSU. We know that's not the case, but comparing scores would suggest that. USD should focus on one thing - getting a win against someone other than a high school JV team. When they do that, they can puff their chest out. Until then, the only thing they've proven is that they are a dominate NAIA program.