Great West - All Sports

[West-River_Jack]

Re: Great West - All Sports

The commentary on this thread is all pretty realistic. The Coyotes are fortunate to be a part of the Great West as they start their transition. While it is true that there will be no marquis matchups right away, with the possible exception of USD vs UND, we have to keep in mind how quickly the SDSU vs Cal-Poly and SDSU vs UC Davis games became games to look forward to. I think that we all respected each other as conference opponents and there were a lot of cordial comments back and forth on this forum between our fans and theirs. This proved to be a tremendous part of the maturing process for us in the Jackrabbit Nation. I am hoping that the same will happen for the 'Yotes.

[filbert]

Re: Great West - All Sports

The commentary on this thread is all pretty realistic. The Coyotes are fortunate to be a part of the Great West as they start their transition. While it is true that there will be no marquis matchups right away, with the possible exception of USD vs UND, we have to keep in mind how quickly the SDSU vs Cal-Poly and SDSU vs UC Davis games became games to look forward to. I think that we all respected each other as conference opponents and there were a lot of cordial comments back and forth on this forum between our fans and theirs. This proved to be a tremendous part of the maturing process for us in the Jackrabbit Nation. I am hoping that the same will happen for the 'Yotes.

The GWFC had four fairly evenly matched football schools between UC-Davis, Cal Poly, NDSU, and SDSU, and one occasionally dangerous also-ran in SUU. All in all, the conference was interesting because it was so balanced and so competitive.

We'll see in the coming year or two whether UND and USD can step it up and step in, and continue to make the GWC balanced enough to be interesting. I'm sure the California schools will continue to bring it in football, and I fully expect both UND and USD to do so as well.

As far as other sports go, it will be interesting to see how the U's stack up against Utah Valley (who earned some respect from yours truly) and Houston Baptist (who, small as they are, still are recruiting in the talent-rich Texas market). UTPA, I'm not completely confident in, but finally finding a regular conference after their long years in the wilderness should help them out. NJIT really, really sucks at basketball right now, and I think they'll find it difficult to compete with the other schools in the conference across the board.

If both of the U's aren't consistently in the top half of the GWC in most sports, I will be very, very surprised.

[joeboo22]

Re: Great West - All Sports

dude, i do not understand this one bit.... this is the same thing as what sdsu did with forming an agreement with all the independent teams, just they didn't come up with a name... great west thats funny, its midwest plus a few others...

[rabidrabbit]

Re: Great West - All Sports

dude, i do not understand this one bit.... this is the same thing as what sdsu did with forming an agreement with all the independent teams, just they didn't come up with a name... great west thats funny, its midwest plus a few others...

UUMMMMM, no it's not. It's CONUS, so far. Watch this pick up a Hawaiian or Alaskan team

2 Great Plains, 1 (maybe) Midwestern, 1 NYC, 2 TX, 1 Mormon (I mean UT), and a Jesuit NW outpost. This is a conference of "convenience" which SDSU was instrumental in creating the seed from which this is sprouting.

Will it last? I doubt it, in its current membership. Is it better than the affiliations we had? Barely, but yes. It is a good parking place for all these schools until they aren't a liability to existing conferences. Transitionals, NCAA sanctions, Move downs returning, these are not the elite of D-I, but it beats truly being independent and alone. Better to be "conferenced" and collectively battling forward.

This Rabbit is VERY HAPPY that we're in three auto-bid conferences, but that's because transition has ended for us. Five years from now, we may be eager to have USD & UND as conference mates again. I, for one, would welcome that, as they were good tough rivals in the NCC, and after transition, I would expect them to be tough games in D-I.

Good for Yotes/Sioux to have the GWC. Better for Rabbits/Bison to have auto-bid MoValley, Summit & Western Wrestling.

[propar80]

Re: Great West - All Sports

http://beta.argusleader.com/apps/pbc...29/1002/sports

Not a bad article, but still not one paragraph on the fact that this "conference" does not recieve any kind of autobid to any NCAA tournament. I guess they just figure people know that's the case?

Just an example...My wife, who actually is somewhat "up" on this stuff after supporting SDSU through the past 5 years, said to me after the KELO hack job report last night..."So does that mean that if USD wins their conference tournament...they're in the dance?"
So this is what I'm talking about in regards to the kind of reporting that is being done on this and the average fan...other than the reporting associated with the "conference", this isn't a bad thing at all for USD, IMO, but on the other hand let's not make it into anything better than what SDSU had in the United Basketball Alliance for the past four years.

Go Jacks!!

[2002jack]

Re: Great West - All Sports

It should be pointed out that the NCAA will not recognize the Great West as a conference until August of 2011, due to the moratorium on forming new conferences. I believe that is when the 13 year's for basketball autobid would start.

Also, I should note, that the Great West Football Conferernce was not actually recognized by the NCAA either.

I could be wrong. Someone enlighten me.

[RodentiaX1]

Re: Great West - All Sports

This is the UBC with better PR. Its a move that makes sense for the teams involved, but its a glorified scheduling alliance, at least for now. Given all the mockery aimed at the GWFC and the UBC by the UxDs, crow needs to be served, however, and it's a seven-course crow feast.

I know an autobid is a long way off, but how long would it take before this conference can have a post-season tournament?

[filbert]

Re: Great West - All Sports

It should be pointed out that the NCAA will not recognize the Great West as a conference until August of 2011, due to the moratorium on forming new conferences. I believe that is when the 13 year's for basketball autobid would start.

Also, I should note, that the Great West Football Conferernce was not actually recognized by the NCAA either.

I could be wrong. Someone enlighten me.

For men's basketball, here's the conference requirements to qualify for an automatic bid to the NCAA tournament:
1) you need seven full D-I members;
2) Six of those members need to be "core members" (active D-I for eight years);
3) Those six core members have to be in the conference together for five years.

UTPA is an active D-I member and a "core" member today.
NJIT and Utah Valley become active members in 2009-10 and becomes a core member eight years later, 2017-18.
UND and USD become active members in 2012-13 and core members in 2020-21.
Houston Baptist becomes an active member in 2014-15 and a core member in 2022-23. (lawsuit pending).

Of potential members:
Chicago State is an active D-I member and a core member.
Seattle will become an active D-I member in 2012-13 and a core member in 2020-21.

So, this group of schools meets the six-core-school requirement in 2020-21.

The current moratorium on new conferences is therefore not a serious issue, IMHO.

Anyway, I think it very unlikely that they will last that long as a conference/scheduling alliance/whatever.

[jackmd]

Re: Great West - All Sports

For men's basketball, here's the conference requirements to qualify for an automatic bid to the NCAA tournament:
1) you need seven full D-I members;
2) Six of those members need to be "core members" (active D-I for eight years);
3) Those six core members have to be in the conference together for five years.

UTPA is an active D-I member and a "core" member today.
NJIT and Utah Valley become active members in 2009-10 and becomes a core member eight years later, 2017-18.
UND and USD become active members in 2012-13 and core members in 2020-21.
Houston Baptist becomes an active member in 2014-15 and a core member in 2022-23. (lawsuit pending).

Of potential members:
Chicago State is an active D-I member and a core member.
Seattle will become an active D-I member in 2012-13 and a core member in 2020-21.

So, this group of schools meets the six-core-school requirement in 2020-21.

The current moratorium on new conferences is therefore not a serious issue, IMHO.

Anyway, I think it very unlikely that they will last that long as a conference/scheduling alliance/whatever.

Its about the student athletes having an opportunity to compete for a title. Nothing more, nothing less, thats what Neilsen says. I guess if the U wants to call it a conference they can but IMHO the news media should call it what it is. I'm not asking TV to stoop to the level of Mick or Stu and outrightly criticize the UxD's like they did to us. Perhaps, just a little article to clarify with information similar to what filbert has posted here. Maybe a quote or two from those AD's involved admitting that this is NOT A CONFERENCE in anyway except by name. Doubt we will see anything from the likes of the Argus trailer.

[Hammersmith]

Re: Great West - All Sports

For men's basketball, here's the conference requirements to qualify for an automatic bid to the NCAA tournament:
1) you need seven full D-I members;
2) Six of those members need to be "core members" (active D-I for eight years);
3) Those six core members have to be in the conference together for five years.

UTPA is an active D-I member and a "core" member today.
NJIT and Utah Valley become active members in 2009-10 and becomes a core member eight years later, 2017-18.
UND and USD become active members in 2012-13 and core members in 2020-21.
Houston Baptist becomes an active member in 2014-15 and a core member in 2022-23. (lawsuit pending).

Of potential members:
Chicago State is an active D-I member and a core member.
Seattle will become an active D-I member in 2012-13 and a core member in 2020-21.

So, this group of schools meets the six-core-school requirement in 2020-21.

The current moratorium on new conferences is therefore not a serious issue, IMHO.

Anyway, I think it very unlikely that they will last that long as a conference/scheduling alliance/whatever.

Small fix: All seven members in #1 must be core institutions.

If no schools are added, the conference will never get a MBB autobid but will get all other autobids in 2022-23. If Chicago State OR Seattle U join, the MBB autobid will come in 2022-23 and the others in 2020-21. If BOTH join, then all autobids will come in 2020-21. (This all assumes HBU loses their lawsuit, which is a safe bet.)

All that aside, I'll repeat what I posted on AGS: If anyone believes this group of schools will still be together in the 2020's, then I've got some beautiful ocean-front property in south Fargo to sell them.

[filbert]

Re: Great West - All Sports

Small fix: All seven members in #1 must be core institutions.

If no schools are added, the conference will never get a MBB autobid but will get all other autobids in 2022-23. If Chicago State OR Seattle U join, the MBB autobid will come in 2022-23 and the others in 2020-21. If BOTH join, then all autobids will come in 2020-21. (This all assumes HBU loses their lawsuit, which is a safe bet.)

All that aside, I'll repeat what I posted on AGS: If anyone believes this group of schools will still be together in the 2020's, then I've got some beautiful ocean-front property in south Fargo to sell them.

Every time I read that $#%#$ NCAA bylaw, my eyes start to glaze over . . .

[1stRowFANatic]

Re: Great West - All Sports

Correct me if I'm wrong (like you all actually needed me say that), but it seems to me I recall something about a conference having to apply to the NCAA for auto bid purposes, but there is nothing requiring the NCAA to act on the application. It seems to me that this came up when discussing what would have happened if the NCC went as a group to D1. I believe the issue was presented as that CBS didn't want any more autobids to knock out big conference schools from at-large bids, so the rule was changed to allow application, but not requiring any action. Therefore, if a new conference was formed from schools that already had big national reps, the conference would get an autobid. A scheduling alliance of small schools, no autobid.

I will await the corrections.

[Hammersmith]

Re: Great West - All Sports

Correct me if I'm wrong (like you all actually needed me say that), but it seems to me I recall something about a conference having to apply to the NCAA for auto bid purposes, but there is nothing requiring the NCAA to act on the application. It seems to me that this came up when discussing what would have happened if the NCC went as a group to D1. I believe the issue was presented as that CBS didn't want any more autobids to knock out big conference schools from at-large bids, so the rule was changed to allow application, but not requiring any action. Therefore, if a new conference was formed from schools that already had big national reps, the conference would get an autobid. A scheduling alliance of small schools, no autobid.

I will await the corrections.

Yes and no.

You are correct about the requirements earlier in the thread being for the eligibility for an automatic qualifier and not a guarantee of one. However, since almost all tournaments that use AQ's are not at max capacity(FCS football being the exception), there is enough room for another AQ or two. The trouble comes in men's basketball. Since it's the only tournament worth a lot of money, the normal rules kinda go out the window.

Back in 1999, a number of schools broke off from the WAC to form the Mountain West Conference. At that time, there were 30 autobids and 34 at-large bids for the MBB tournament. Since two of those at-large bids could become autobids without running afoul of the 50% autobid maximum, one of the at-larges should have been given to the MWC to form a 31/33 split. In fact, that's what happened in women's basketball. Well, the money was too important for CBS and the big conferences. They didn't want to give up one of those valuable at-large slots. The final decision was to expand the tournament to 65 teams and create a play-in game to eliminate one of the small schools before the tournament proper. Today, there are now 31 autobids but still 34 at-large just bids like before the change in 2001.

Were a new conference to last long enough to meet the AQ eligibility requirements, they would be granted an autobid in almost all sports with little hoopla. Only in MBB would things get really tricky. The problem for the NCAA/CBS would be how to justify 31 conferences getting autobids and 1 other conference getting stuck out in the cold even though they meet all existing requirements. The conference's lawers would have a field-day with that. The whole "core institution" thing was created just to keep new conferences from forming and demanding MBB autobids.

If I were a betting man, I'd expect the NCAA to come up with additional autobid requirements toward the end of the moritorium. The other possiblity is that, were one or more new conferences to become AQ eligible, we might see an expansion of the MBB tournament from 65 to 96 or 128. It's already being talked about, but the discussion hasn't reached critical mass. The loss of a couple at-large bids could put it over the top. Not likely, but still...

Anyway, I think we all agree that this is all a moot discussion. Honestly, I don't give the all-sports aspect of the Great West more than 5 years. Even if Seattle joins, they'll be in the WCC in 4 or 5 years. Chicago State is number one on the Summit League waiting list. UVU is probably number 2 if SUU doesn't get a Big Sky invite. NJIT is going to keep trying for the NEC, and will probably get in within 5 years. UTPA stands a good chance to get in the Southland if Texas State follows through with their plans to go FBS. The same might be said for HBU. The UxD's might find themselves amongst the rubble of the Great West in 5 or 6 years, or possibly absorbed into the Summit if they're very, very lucky. Get your MBB program back on track, keep improving in football, switch to a DI marketing model and hopefully the UxD's will be invited into the Summit to fill the hole created as the xDSU's leave for the MVC and FBS.

Hey, a guy can dream, right?

[1stRowFANatic]

Re: Great West - All Sports

I knew someone would fill in the details. Your post is a perfect example of why I value this board and its posters.