Conference Expansion

[JimmieTuba]

I have been part of an interesting discussion on another board and was wondering what Jackrabbit reactions would be.

If the Big Ten expands to 12 teams everyone knows they want to add Notre Dame. However from logistics right now the Big East would be the obvious choice for ND because that is their affiliation for every other sport.

I can see 2 teams (geographically) that the Big Ten could easily add - NDSU and UNI. I know it is early to talk about NDSU but let's have some fun. Both schools have good foundations for their football teams. NDSU's record this year and the defeat of Minnesota gives them some hope (IMHO). UNI makes sense because of their location. Their football team is strong and the Uni-dome is a good venue. Some of the posters dismissed both these schools because of the 'mid-major' affiliations. Everyone knows that the Irish are the Big Ten's wet-dream but who do you think would be second tier choices?

[JimmyJack]

Re: Conference Expansion

I have been part of an interesting discussion on another board and was wondering what Jackrabbit reactions would be.

If the Big Ten expands to 12 teams everyone knows they want to add Notre Dame. However from logistics right now the Big East would be the obvious choice for ND because that is their affiliation for every other sport.

I can see 2 teams (geographically) that the Big Ten could easily add - NDSU and UNI. I know it is early to talk about NDSU but let's have some fun. Both schools have good foundations for their football teams. NDSU's record this year and the defeat of Minnesota gives them some hope (IMHO). UNI makes sense because of their location. Their football team is strong and the Uni-dome is a good venue. Some of the posters dismissed both these schools because of the 'mid-major' affiliations. Everyone knows that the Irish are the Big Ten's wet-dream but who do you think would be second tier choices?

Pitt. Rutgers.

Those are the only ones I've ever heard.

[boxerboy]

Re: Conference Expansion

I have been part of an interesting discussion on another board and was wondering what Jackrabbit reactions would be.

If the Big Ten expands to 12 teams everyone knows they want to add Notre Dame. However from logistics right now the Big East would be the obvious choice for ND because that is their affiliation for every other sport.

I can see 2 teams (geographically) that the Big Ten could easily add - NDSU and UNI. I know it is early to talk about NDSU but let's have some fun. Both schools have good foundations for their football teams. NDSU's record this year and the defeat of Minnesota gives them some hope (IMHO). UNI makes sense because of their location. Their football team is strong and the Uni-dome is a good venue. Some of the posters dismissed both these schools because of the 'mid-major' affiliations. Everyone knows that the Irish are the Big Ten's wet-dream but who do you think would be second tier choices?

The mid-majors like NDSU and UNI may be able to compete on the field in some sports but do not have the stadiums or the population base in their geography to support 50K stadiums etc. The smallest football venue in the Big Ten is Northwestern's field which holds around 50K. NDSU and UNI are not even a possibility at this point. The Big Ten would consider many many options prior to them. Other regional schools like Cincinnati or Pittsburgh would be way ahead even a Northern Illinois would be ahead of UNI.

[filbert]

Re: Conference Expansion

I think the correct term for this discussion is not "interesting," it's "silly."

The chances of NDSU or UNI gaining Big 10 membership in my lifetime are approximately equal to the chances that I'll finally hit that Powerball jackpot.

My guess is that the Big 10 is fat and happy with their current membership, shiny new television network, and position near if not at the top of the college athletics food chain.

You could perhaps make an argument for Rutgers in order to solidify their presence in the New York City market, but I'm not sure they even need that nowadays.

I think the ship has sailed for Notre Dame, and that they have lost their chance to get into the Big 10. The Irish will, I think, be playing Big East football within 10 years (or when NBC's contract with them runs out, whichever comes first).

[JimmieTuba]

Re: Conference Expansion

Good call on Cincy and Northern Ill. Never even came to mind. The knock on Penn state has been the travel so I think Pitt might be a last resort.

[2002jack]

Re: Conference Expansion

I have been part of an interesting discussion on another board and was wondering what Jackrabbit reactions would be.

If the Big Ten expands to 12 teams everyone knows they want to add Notre Dame. However from logistics right now the Big East would be the obvious choice for ND because that is their affiliation for every other sport.

I can see 2 teams (geographically) that the Big Ten could easily add - NDSU and UNI. I know it is early to talk about NDSU but let's have some fun. Both schools have good foundations for their football teams. NDSU's record this year and the defeat of Minnesota gives them some hope (IMHO). UNI makes sense because of their location. Their football team is strong and the Uni-dome is a good venue. Some of the posters dismissed both these schools because of the 'mid-major' affiliations. Everyone knows that the Irish are the Big Ten's wet-dream but who do you think would be second tier choices?

They have 11 teams right now. If they add anybody it would be Pitt.

[NightHawk78]

Re: Conference Expansion

Ahh...the classic parlor game of conference realignment...

The Big Ten(11) is inevitably going to add a 12th team, particularly if the BCS is unhappy with the Big Ten's potential for a lack of a true FB champion (two teams - not scheduled to play each other - theoretically could go undefeated in Big Ten play). The Big 12, ACC, and SEC all have conference title games while the PAC-10 and Big East have few enough teams to allow for a complete round-robin conference schedule. In addition, the Big Ten may want to add another school to make its cable network more attractive to cable companies and customers...

Who would the Big Ten add?

1) Nebraska - What does AD Osborne really think of the Big 12? Is Cornhusker football better suited for the Big Ten rather than the Big 12? This move would also enable Nebraska and Oklahoma to play every year, unlike the current Big 12 setup.
2) Pitt - Obvious choice with Penn State in the conference.
3) Missouri - An old suggestion, but Mizzou probably wants to keep the annual sackings of Lawrence in its schedule...
4) Rutgers - Suggestion of the moment with the uptick in their FB program and the potential of the New York market.
X) Notre Dame - I'll have to disagree with filbert that the Big Ten's doors are now closed to the Fighting Irish...BUT, Notre Dame has too many existing rivalries (i.e. Michigan, Michigan State, Purdue, USC, Pitt, Navy, Stanford, Boston College, and so forth) to choose a conference unless circumstances (no more TV contract) made it necessary. If that were to happen, I think Notre Dame would choose the Big Ten over the Big East because of the higher number of "glamour" programs in the Big Ten

[EQguy]

Re: Conference Expansion

Could you imagine the power the Big Ten would gain if the only way to watch Notre Dame football was on the Big Ten Network.

[JimmieTuba]

Re: Conference Expansion

Ahh...the classic parlor game of conference realignment...

The Big Ten(11) is inevitably going to add a 12th team, particularly if the BCS is unhappy with the Big Ten's potential for a lack of a true FB champion (two teams - not scheduled to play each other - theoretically could go undefeated in Big Ten play). The Big 12, ACC, and SEC all have conference title games while the PAC-10 and Big East have few enough teams to allow for a complete round-robin conference schedule. In addition, the Big Ten may want to add another school to make its cable network more attractive to cable companies and customers...

Who would the Big Ten add?

1) Nebraska - What does AD Osborne really think of the Big 12? Is Cornhusker football better suited for the Big Ten rather than the Big 12? This move would also enable Nebraska and Oklahoma to play every year, unlike the current Big 12 setup.
2) Pitt - Obvious choice with Penn State in the conference.
3) Missouri - An old suggestion, but Mizzou probably wants to keep the annual sackings of Lawrence in its schedule...
4) Rutgers - Suggestion of the moment with the uptick in their FB program and the potential of the New York market.
X) Notre Dame - I'll have to disagree with filbert that the Big Ten's doors are now closed to the Fighting Irish...BUT, Notre Dame has too many existing rivalries (i.e. Michigan, Michigan State, Purdue, USC, Pitt, Navy, Stanford, Boston College, and so forth) to choose a conference unless circumstances (no more TV contract) made it necessary. If that were to happen, I think Notre Dame would choose the Big Ten over the Big East because of the higher number of "glamour" programs in the Big Ten

Your 2 undefeated teams in one season has already happened under the BCS - 2002 season Iowa and Ohio State went undefeated. Ohio State won the title based on overall record. tOSU of course defeated Miami that year in the Fiesta Bowl.

The other way the Big Ten could fix this would be to limit teams to 2 OC games. That way the could fit the 10 conference game schedule in. I would almost prefer that to conference championship games.

ND's TV deal wouldn't necessarily go away if they joined a conference. Logistics would be a whole lot harder to handle though with conference TV deals. I could see a network paying for conference games just to get ND games.

I find it hard to see teams leaving the Big 12. I would think if Cincy continues to rise Big 10 might look at them over Pitt. Penn State always has had a knock against them for the travel time out there. Cincy would be a lot closer for all the teams (except the Nittany Lions) to travel to.

[NightHawk78]

Re: Conference Expansion

Your 2 undefeated teams in one season has already happened under the BCS - 2002 season Iowa and Ohio State went undefeated. Ohio State won the title based on overall record. tOSU of course defeated Miami that year in the Fiesta Bowl.

The other way the Big Ten could fix this would be to limit teams to 2 OC games. That way the could fit the 10 conference game schedule in. I would almost prefer that to conference championship games.

ND's TV deal wouldn't necessarily go away if they joined a conference. Logistics would be a whole lot harder to handle though with conference TV deals. I could see a network paying for conference games just to get ND games.

I find it hard to see teams leaving the Big 12. I would think if Cincy continues to rise Big 10 might look at them over Pitt. Penn State always has had a knock against them for the travel time out there. Cincy would be a lot closer for all the teams (except the Nittany Lions) to travel to.

Thanks for the 2002 info, JimmieTuba...I suppose this wasn't such a major issue then because Iowa still made a BCS bowl (the Orange Bowl instead of the Rose Bowl).

The 10-game conference schedule won't likely happen because several teams need four non-conference games in order to reach bowl-eligibility.

Since all 11 Big Ten members are part of the Association of American Universities (AAU), I'm guessing AAU membership would be preferred (as part of the academic component). Nebraska and Rutgers are part of the AAU, but neither Cincinnati nor Notre Dame are members.

Nebraska might be happy in the Big 12, but I'm not sure that it has benefited the Cornhuskers. The Texas schools and Oklahoma typically dominate the conference in football and Nebraska's rivalry with Oklahoma took a severe blow by not playing every year. In addition, Nebraska football seems to fit in better with the Big Ten as opposed to the Big 12.

[rational thought]

Re: Conference Expansion

when does ND's tv deal end...can't imagine it being renewed with their current status

[NightHawk78]

Re: Conference Expansion

when does ND's tv deal end...can't imagine it being renewed with their current status

2010 . . . I'm guessing a decision would likely be made sometime in the next 12-18 months about another extension with NBC.

http://media.www.ndsmcobserver.com/m...0-580686.shtml

[JimmyJack]

Re: Conference Expansion

Nebraska might be happy in the Big 12, but I'm not sure that it has benefited the Cornhuskers. The Texas schools and Oklahoma typically dominate the conference in football and Nebraska's rivalry with Oklahoma took a severe blow by not playing every year. In addition, Nebraska football seems to fit in better with the Big Ten as opposed to the Big 12.

The other difference between the Big 12 and Big Ten is academic reputation. Having taught at two Big Ten and one Big 12 school, I can tell you there is no comparison. With the clear exception of Texas, the Big 12 schools are lesser academic institutions (as measured by things like research productivity and reputation in major fields of study.)

There are a lot of schools in other conferences that would love to be associated with the Purdues, Penn States, and Michigans of the world.

[NightHawk78]

Re: Conference Expansion

Number of schools in AAU by BCS conference:
Big Ten: 11
Big 12: 7 (Nebraska, Texas, Texas A&M, Colorado, Iowa State, Kansas, Missouri)
PAC-10: 7 (USC, UCLA, Stanford, Cal, Washington, Oregon, Arizona)
ACC: 4 (Maryland, Virginia, UNC, Duke)
Big East: 3 (Rutgers, Pitt, Syracuse)
SEC: 2 (Florida, Vanderbilt)

If using AAU membership as a criteria for comparison, the Big Ten is head-and-shoulders above the rest with the PAC-10 and Big 12 on the next tier. In addition, nine of the 30 "Public Ivies" are Big Ten schools. Needless to say, JimmyJack hits the bulleye again . . .

[boxerboy]

Re: Conference Expansion

The other difference between the Big 12 and Big Ten is academic reputation. Having taught at two Big Ten and one Big 12 school, I can tell you there is no comparison. With the clear exception of Texas, the Big 12 schools are lesser academic institutions (as measured by things like research productivity and reputation in major fields of study.)

There are a lot of schools in other conferences that would love to be associated with the Purdues, Penn States, and Michigans of the world.

I will just throw my $.02 in for what it's worth. I will admit that I live right in the middle of Big Ten country. Even though the Big Ten has been down athletically in last few years I still believe it is THE premiere conference in the land. The southeast conference is better for football, the ACC is better for basketball and the Big East, Big 12 and PAC 12 or 10 (showing my age) are all good conferences. The Ivy league is still considered the best academically. Yet all in all I believe the Big Ten is still the most respected conference. I just looked at the U of Michigan's average ACT and SAT scores and how difficult (unless you're an athlete) it is to get in. I have a senior in high school with high ACT scores who I doubt will get accepted. Time and again I hear about kids from my area with over 30 ACT scores getting turned down. I realize MSU is not quite as difficult but all in all these universities have high academic standards. All of this is would seem to point towards Notre Dame. Still ND seems to love their independence just because of WHO they are. However, the way their storied football program is going that just might change things.