Scholarships at USD

[joeboo22]

Re: Scholarships at USD

Not sure exactly what you mean by conference affiliation being a factor. The Title IX requirements are applied to each institution and conference affiliation wouldn't affect that outcome. Conference affiliation would affect what sports the institution would offer, is that what you meant?

I think you were talking to me.... What I was saying is that USD doesn't have baseball, mens soccer or wrestling..... Its going to be tough to sell yourself to a conference without baseball alone.... baseball is a pretty big sport in D-I athletics.... When trying to get into a conference you are going to want to have pretty much everything. And USD can't add those sports without doing major reorganization of scholarships to be in like with Title IX.

[1stRowFANatic]

Re: Scholarships at USD

I think you were talking to me.... What I was saying is that USD doesn't have baseball, mens soccer or wrestling..... Its going to be tough to sell yourself to a conference without baseball alone.... baseball is a pretty big sport in D-I athletics.... When trying to get into a conference you are going to want to have pretty much everything. And USD can't add those sports without doing major reorganization of scholarships to be in like with Title IX.

Actually was referring to 91jack's post. Should have used the quote function, sorry about the confusion. Don't know how to quote two different posts in a reply.

[91jack]

Re: Scholarships at USD

1stRowFANatic-
My post about the conference was in response to joeboo22's post. He wrote, "USD doesn't have baseball, men's soccer or wrestling...".
My response to that was that SDSU doesn't have men's soccer either.
SDSU's wrestling team isn't in the Summit.
SDSU's baseball team is the only difference.
Baseball is a big difference but that is the only one of the 3 where USD would be left out(of the Summit). It's more likely to be added to any conference when you have all their sports. I don't see USD ever getting baseball back because it'll be hard for them to get that many women's scholarships.

[1stRowFANatic]

Re: Scholarships at USD

I understand now.

[Hammersmith]

Re: Scholarships at USD

To clear up a few misconceptions/confusions:

There are three groups or organizations at play here.
1. Federal government(Title IX) - also include SD govenment here
2. NCAA
3. Conferences

First, Title IX includes a three-prong test for compliance, in which a university must satisfy one of the three prongs. (SD lawmakers, in their infinite wisdom, require the satisfaction of all three.)

The three prong test:
1. Providing athletic opportunities that are substantially proportionate to the student enrollment, OR
2. Demonstrate a continual expansion of athletic opportunities for the underrepresented gender, OR
3. Full and effective accommodation of the interest and ability of underrepresented gender.(NDSU uses this one)

Of the three, the first one(proportionality) is used by most universities due to its defensiblity in lawsuits. If 52% of your undergrads are women, and they receive 52% of the athletic grants-in-aid(give or take a percentage point or two), the university will win any Title IX lawsuit against them. USD must award about 62% of its athletic grants to women to achieve proportionality.

The second major group in play here is the NCAA. They have rules regarding the numbers of sports offered to each gender. At the DI(non-FBS) level, a school must offer at least 14 different sports. The 14 minimum may be 7 men's and 7 women's or 6 men's and 8 women's. Also, Cross Country, Indoor Track & Field, and Outdoor Track & Field each count as seperate sports so long as certain scheduling and financial aid criteria are met.

Finally, some conferences require all of their members to sponsor every sport the conference does. For example, the Big Sky Conference only sponsors 14 sports, but all 14 are required for each university. The Summit League, on the other hand, has some sports that are required(MBB & WBB, for instance), but most are optional. This results in a larger number of sponsored sports(19), though the conference may consider the sports offered when debating whether or not to offer membership. For instance, say NoName Conference has 5 schools that offer men's soccer, which makes conference competition difficult. They are considering two candidates for membership that are equal, except one offers the sport while the other doesn't. That sport might become the deciding factor. Of course, real life rarely works out that simply, but the point stands.


So what is USD's situation? Depending on how they fund T&F/CC, they have up to 7 men's sports and 10 women's. They must offer at least 8.9 scholarships among their men's T&F/CC program - no exceptions. In fact, even with every current women's sport maxed out, USD won't be able to offer 63 football scholarships and remain in proportional compliance, even if no other male student in any other sport receives a scholarship. Yikes.

Here's the breakdown:
Men's:
Basketball: 13
CC/T&F: 12.6
Football: 63
Golf: 4.5
S&D: 9.9

Women's:
Basketball: 15
CC/T&F: 18
Golf: 6
Soccer: 14
Softball: 12
S&D: 14
Tennis: 8
Volleyball: 12

Men's total: 103
Women's total: 99

If the maximum 99 women's grants are given out, and they consist of 62% of all athletic grants, that leaves only 61 grants(38%) for the men. Total.

USD needs to add more women's sports, get more men to come to USD, or get the SD Leg or BoR(or whoever) to change the policy of requiring all three prongs.

Notes: There is some question as to which number is used when calculating proportionality. Do you use total headcount? Do you use total undergrad headcount but no grad students? Do you use only full-time students and exclude part-timers? OPE's Equity in Athletics website seems to favor using only full-time undergrads. Using that criteria, USD isn't in quite as bad a shape. Full-time undergrads at USD are 43.5%M/56.5%W. Using the 99 grants from above, that would allow USD to offer about 76 men's grants while remaining in proportional compliance. Assuming 63 football grants + 8.9 CC/T&F, that leaves about four and a half grants to be spread around the rest of the men's sports.

Also, be careful using the numbers from the OPE EiA website. I don't think there are enough controls on how the data is reported and collected. For example: under the full-time undergrad totals, USD and SDSU appear to report the correct figures, NDSU reports total undergrad headcount including part-timers, while UND reports total headcount enrollment including grad students.

A question to you South Dakotans: Why is there such a huge difference between the number of male vs. female part-time students? Ex. USD(05-06): 578 male PT degree-seeking undergrads/1556 female; SDSU(06-07): 377/748; NDSU: 549/544; UND: 632/533. There must be some reason why there are 2-3 part-time female students to every 1 male at SDSU and USD. It's this weird imbalance that throws off the equity calculations for USD.

[JimmyJack]

Re: Scholarships at USD

Here's the breakdown:
Men's:
Basketball: 13
CC/T&F: 12.6
Football: 63
Golf: 4.5
S&D: 9.9

Women's:
Basketball: 15
CC/T&F: 18
Golf: 6
Soccer: 14
Softball: 12
S&D: 14
Tennis: 8
Volleyball: 12

Men's total: 103
Women's total: 99

I don't think their plan includes 202 total scholarships.

[Jacks-02]

Re: Scholarships at USD

A question to you South Dakotans: Why is there such a huge difference between the number of male vs. female part-time students? Ex. USD(05-06): 578 male PT degree-seeking undergrads/1556 female; SDSU(06-07): 377/748; NDSU: 549/544; UND: 632/533. There must be some reason why there are 2-3 part-time female students to every 1 male at SDSU and USD. It's this weird imbalance that throws off the equity calculations for USD.

Just wild speculation on my part but I'm guessing a big reason for this is the construction industry in South Dakota. A person can make pretty decent money building roads/houses/etc. in Sioux Falls where a secondary education isn't necessarily needed. The majority of people who tend to do these jobs are male, which means fewer of them are inclined to spend the time and money to get more education if they can make decent money without it.

[Hammersmith]

Re: Scholarships at USD

I don't think their plan includes 202 total scholarships.

I realize that. In fact, assuming proportional compliance, USD would top out at 175.2 scholarships using current enrollment numbers and sports offered. Also, I can't see any way USD can offer more than 47 football scholarships and still remain proportional to their full-time undergrad enrollment(assuming a full slate of 13 men's basketball scholarships are also offered). If USD wants FBS money games and are truly restricted by SD state law or BoR policy to remain in complete compliance with all aspects of Title IX, they will have to either add a women's sport or only offer half the MBB scholarships allowed. Even then, it will be close.

I can offer the math if anyone really wants it.


The absolute minimum USD can offer is 57.5 total scholarships, but that means no FB, MBB or WBB scholarships. For each men's scholie added beyond the 57.5, 1.3 women's scholies must also be added. Using the numbers they supplied to the NCAA and the OPE, USD is currently offering between 95-100 total grants-in-aid and they are out of compliance by 6.5%. Women make up 56.5% of the full-time undergrads, but are only receiving 50% of the athletically-related student aid. BTW, NDSU is currently out by 7%, and both SDSU and UND are within 2%. (2006-2007 numbers)

[Jacks#1Fan]

Re: Scholarships at USD

Thanks Hammersmith for offering the breakdown. I was aware that they had a huge problem when they decided they were going D-1 and offered an opinion to a USD friend that I felt that the administration (either school or department -- take your pick) had not even thought of this part of their problem. The answer was: oh, I'm sure they thought of it and have a plan.

IMHO, giving out fewer than the 202 scholarships just increases their problem. Early posts on this thread may not have been aware of the need for "minimum" and "maximum" levels of scholarships for the sports, and I am absolutely convinced that nobody has done the math at USD (or, if they have now, must be on the cusp of convulsions). Thank goodness we did have a plan! And were able to move to 63 football scholarships!

[Jacks#1Fan]

Re: Scholarships at USD

Here's a follow-up question for somebody in the know (Hammersmith or others). It seems to me that the first year after application for transition to D-1 is an "exploratory year" and that a school can decide during that time it does not want to move from D-II. Is that just a dream I had, and/or, if it is true, when is DECISION-DAY for the transitioning school?

[BTownJack]

Re: Scholarships at USD

Here's a follow-up question for somebody in the know (Hammersmith or others). It seems to me that the first year after application for transition to D-1 is an "exploratory year" and that a school can decide during that time it does not want to move from D-II. Is that just a dream I had, and/or, if it is true, when is DECISION-DAY for the transitioning school?

You are right Jacks#1Fan...they can make the decision to stay a D-II school during their exploratory year. I'm not sure when the final "decision-day" is for them but I know they have an out if they want to take it.

But considering the 4-year moratorium the NCAA recently imposed stopping schools from moving into D-I, I'm guessing USD will do whatever it can to make this work.

[1stRowFANatic]

Re: Scholarships at USD

Hammersmith,
Heck of job on the post. I wish I could give more rep points than I already have.

As for USD, not sure what the plan is but I would have to think they are going to add some women's sports. Their AD has committed publicly to getting to 63 FB schollies as soon as possible to get guarantee games. I personally am hoping that they add equestrian, just for the snickering I would get out of it.

[Jacks#1Fan]

Re: Scholarships at USD

Hammersmith,
Heck of job on the post. I wish I could give more rep points than I already have.

As for USD, not sure what the plan is but I would have to think they are going to add some women's sports. Their AD has committed publicly to getting to 63 FB schollies as soon as possible to get guarantee games. I personally am hoping that they add equestrian, just for the snickering I would get out of it.

OK...obviously they need to add a women's sport. Besides equestrian, here are the NCAA sports they can choose from (from Wikipedia on NCAA):
Fencing
Field Hockey
Gymnastics
Hockey
Lacrosse
Rowing
Skiing
Water Polo
Hmmmm...wonder which one (or two) they want?? Oh, yeah, one other consideration, finding a sport they can add, and that they can then find a conference that offers that sport for competition. Interesting! (Self-protecting footnote: I'm not sure if there are other "sports" like equestrian that the NCAA sanctions, but does not offer championships in.)

[Hammersmith]

Re: Scholarships at USD

Here's a follow-up question for somebody in the know (Hammersmith or others). It seems to me that the first year after application for transition to D-1 is an "exploratory year" and that a school can decide during that time it does not want to move from D-II. Is that just a dream I had, and/or, if it is true, when is DECISION-DAY for the transitioning school?

June 1, 2008. If USD does nothing, they will remain in DII. They only proceed forward if they send in another batch of paperwork by the deadline. Of course, with the demise of the NCC combined with the moritorium, I can't believe they won't continue into DI.

I definitely side with you guys, but I can't help but feel a little sorry for USD. They are, by far, in the worst position of the four Dakota schools to move to DI, yet they really had no choice. If I were a Yote, I'd be cursing Roger Thomas and UND non-stop for opposing the DI NCC move back in 2002-03. That was the only thing that could've helped them.

[Hammersmith]

Re: Scholarships at USD

OK...obviously they need to add a women's sport. Besides equestrian, here are the NCAA sports they can choose from (from Wikipedia on NCAA):
Fencing
Field Hockey
Gymnastics
Hockey
Lacrosse
Rowing
Skiing
Water Polo
Hmmmm...wonder which one (or two) they want?? Oh, yeah, one other consideration, finding a sport they can add, and that they can then find a conference that offers that sport for competition. Interesting! (Self-protecting footnote: I'm not sure if there are other "sports" like equestrian that the NCAA sanctions, but does not offer championships in.)

Total Women's List w/ scholarships: (Yes, I keep it handy. - I'm a geek.)
Archery: 5.0
Badminton: 6.0
Basketball: 15.0*
Bowling: 5.0
Cross Country/Track and Field: 18.0*
Equestrian: 15.0
Field Hockey: 12.0
Golf: 6.0*
Gymnastics: 12.0
Ice Hockey: 18.0
Lacrosse: 12.0
Rowing: 20.0
Rugby: 12.0
Skiing : 7.0
Soccer: 14.0*
Softball: 12.0*
Squasch: 12.0
Swimming and Diving: 14.0*
Synchronized Swimming: 5.0
Team Handball: 10.0
Tennis: 8.0*
Volleyball: 12.0*
Water Polo: 8.0

*already offered at USD

My guess would be gymnastics, rugby or lacrosse. None require large investments in facilities and all allow decent numbers of scholarships.