NCC schools contemplate conference's future

[Haldersham]

Re: NCC schools contemplate conference's future

Granted there is a new AD at USD, but Abbott's reign as president goes back before 2000, as I recall Gov Janklow speaking at the inaugration of Abbott, which had to be some where back there in the 1990's. The point is that some USD apologists like to point out that Abbott was in the heat of a political race for Governor in 2002 and he had no part in the decision to stay D2. Not for a second do I buy that he was removed from the situation. Abbott knew he was going to get beat by Rounds, and no doubt kept a good pulse on what was happening on campus. I think Abbott is not crazy about D1, but its a situation he feels he forced into and I tend to believe he sees it as a very risky business venture. I think that committee better have some solid ideas on how to proceed.

Its a new day in South Dakota. I assume the Sioux City columnist had gotten a tip somewhere and the path that Augie may take seems plausible. I think Augie does not want to lose their support in Sioux Falls and that would happen is USD and Augie would stay D2. With a new area on the project board for Sioux Falls, they could draw pretty good crowds for basketball and would not have to use the Eleman Center for Men's BB. A non scholarship football program would probably balance their budget.

I think both will move forward to D1, and the NCC will be soon an answer to trivia questions.

[filbert]

Re: NCC schools contemplate conference's future

Just because it's the worst possible scenario for SDSU, I fully expect Augie to move to D-I as well as USD.

Augie, I'm guessing, will either go non-scholarship football and try to get into the Pioneer League, or drop football entirely and go I-AAA.

I think we're all just waiting for USD's D-I announcement in early to mid-November. They're going, I'm quite sure.

[valleyrabbit]

Re: NCC schools contemplate conference's future

I really don't care what the USD and Augie do when it comes to D-1. The transistion process has been challenging. We were somewhat fortunate to get conference affiliation as soon as we did. The ACC and Big East expansion set off a domino effect that transcended all the way down to the Mid-Con as they expanded. Now if one anlyzes each conference they appear to be full. When conferences get money from the NCAA tournament TV contract for having X number of schools in the tournament they have to split it amongst its members. If you are a member of a conference would you rather split the pie into 10 pieces or 12 pieces?

Another big challenge we have had is recruiting. If you are a star high school athlete do you want to go to a school who is D-1 Indpendent who can't play in the postseason. That problem is history for us. One can only imagine that USD's and Augie's coaches were whispering that into potential recruits' ears about SDSU's transition. What are their coaches going to tell their student athletes who went to USD or Augie instead of playing for D-I Independent SDSU (e.g. Natalie Carda) when they become a D-1 Independent?

[Coyote_Fan]

Re: NCC schools contemplate conference's future

I sence a change in the thinking of the people on this board in the last few months. Many thought that USD and Augie would be crazy to consider a move to D1. I am not necessarily saying that SDSU people think it's a good idea but I do sence that they now understand where both schools are coming from. Basically the rug has been pulled out from underneathe both. The NCC is becoming a non factor and it has happened very quickly. If USD does make an announcement I don't want them to come out and state that they are moving because they have no other choice. I want them to come out and say they are going forward with a purpose and vision.

It will be interesting to see how Augie's football program as a D1AAA non scholarship program will fair against the remaining D1 programs in the geographical area. Will they be on par with the current NCC programs, will they be closer to the NSIC or will they not even be up to that level. It will give local athletes another avenue to take when exploring a college career. I wouldn't mind seeing Augie take that route just to see how a program around here works with no scholly football and D1 in everything else.

[filbert]

Re: NCC schools contemplate conference's future

I sence a change in the thinking of the people on this board in the last few months. Many thought that USD and Augie would be crazy to consider a move to D1. I am not necessarily saying that SDSU people think it's a good idea but I do sence that they now understand where both schools are coming from. Basically the rug has been pulled out from underneathe both. The NCC is becoming a non factor and it has happened very quickly. If USD does make an announcement I don't want them to come out and state that they are moving because they have no other choice. I want them to come out and say they are going forward with a purpose and vision.

It will be interesting to see how Augie's football program as a D1AAA non scholarship program will fair against the remaining D1 programs in the geographical area. Will they be on par with the current NCC programs, will they be closer to the NSIC or will they not even be up to that level. It will give local athletes another avenue to take when exploring a college career. I wouldn't mind seeing Augie take that route just to see how a program around here works with no scholly football and D1 in everything else.

You need to be careful projecting what individual posters say on the Forum into what "the people on this board."

I've been pretty consistently for USD's move to D-I, for instance. I think renewing the rivalry will be good for SDSU. I also think that 'keeping up with the Joneses" is a really bad reason for moving up. So, I agree with you that USD needs to "say they are going forward with a purpose and vision." It needs to align with the university's mission first and foremost.

I can see a good argument for USD's dropping to D-III and focusing on becoming an extremely selective professional/liberal arts university with aspirations to national elite public university status. I can also see a good argument for USD's going D-I and embracing a growth-oriented (i.e. not as selective) vision. In the end, it's not for me to decide, but for the USD community. Make your decision based on what's best for YOU, not because it's what SDSU did.

As for Augie . . . *shrug*.

[filbert]

Re: NCC schools contemplate conference's future

[quote author=Coyote_Fan link=1152460990/60#63 date=1158987252]I sence a change in the thinking of the people on this board in the last few months. Many thought that USD and Augie would be crazy to consider a move to D1. I am not necessarily saying that SDSU people think it's a good idea but I do sence that they now understand where both schools are coming from. Basically the rug has been pulled out from underneathe both. The NCC is becoming a non factor and it has happened very quickly. If USD does make an announcement I don't want them to come out and state that they are moving because they have no other choice. I want them to come out and say they are going forward with a purpose and vision.

It will be interesting to see how Augie's football program as a D1AAA non scholarship program will fair against the remaining D1 programs in the geographical area. Will they be on par with the current NCC programs, will they be closer to the NSIC or will they not even be up to that level. It will give local athletes another avenue to take when exploring a college career. I wouldn't mind seeing Augie take that route just to see how a program around here works with no scholly football and D1 in everything else.

You need to be careful projecting what individual posters say on the Forum into what "the people on this board."

I've been pretty consistently for USD's move to D-I, for instance. I think renewing the rivalry will be good for SDSU. I also think that 'keeping up with the Joneses" is a really bad reason for moving up. So, I agree with you that USD needs to "say they are going forward with a purpose and vision." It needs to align with the university's mission first and foremost.

I can see a good argument for USD's dropping to D-III and focusing on becoming an extremely selective professional/liberal arts university with aspirations to national elite public university status. I can also see a good argument for USD's going D-I and embracing a growth-oriented (i.e. not as selective) vision. In the end, it's not for me to decide, but for the USD community. Make your decision based on what's best for YOU, not because it's what SDSU did.

As for Augie . . . *shrug*.[/quote]

p.s. my characterization of both USD and Augie moving up being the "worst-case scenario" for SDSU refers only to the fact that I don't think the S.D. market can support three successful D-I athletic programs within the state. Dividing a market three ways is "worse" than dividing it two ways, or not dividing it at all.

[Haldersham]

Re: NCC schools contemplate conference's future

Just as we had the Freedom to Farm, I think we should have the Freedom to go D1, for Augie and USD. I think that maybe both freedom programs might have something in common and that is the "Freedom to Fail" ;D

That is in gest, but seriously, what happens next at Augie and USD is going to be interesting. SDSU has nothing to worry about except for ourselves so what does happen at USD and Augie is not our major concern. We need to concentrate on our own programs and keep going forward. I am extremely proud of our volleyball program. Some of the other programs will soon start to show our ability to compete.

I listen on KELO radio to the USD game. Our guys at WNAX do a much better job. I think USD has to many more winning seasons before they can truly call their defense the 'Black Shirts" like they were the UNL Huskers. Talk about homers. I know this will offend Coyote Fan but so what.

[Coyote_Fan]

Re: NCC schools contemplate conference's future

Just as we had the Freedom to Farm, I think we should have the Freedom to go D1, for Augie and USD.  I think that maybe both freedom programs might have something in common and that is the "Freedom to Fail"  ;D

That is in gest, but seriously, what happens next at Augie and USD is going to be interesting. SDSU has nothing to worry about except for ourselves so what does happen at USD and Augie is not our major concern. We need to concentrate on our own programs and keep going forward. I am extremely proud of our volleyball program. Some of the other programs will soon start to show our ability to compete.

I listen on KELO radio to the USD game. Our guys at WNAX do a much better job. I think USD has to many more winning seasons before they can truly call their defense the 'Black Shirts" like they were the UNL Huskers.  Talk about homers. I know this will offend Coyote Fan but so what.

I agree that the play by play is better from Steve Imming. I have heard him often complain about officiating so it's not just Culhaine that is the homer. With that said USD has way better overall radio coverage on their radio network for games. They have a 2 hour pregame. They cover this week in D2 football. They cover the NAIA and major college as well. They have a very good Coyote based pregame as well which covers an hour. They have good interviews with the opposing coaches as well as their own. They have post game highlights, interviews with the head coach, assistant coaches and players. They have a much more detailed pre game and post game. With WNAX you get a few minutes for a pre game show and after the game it's "lets see how fast we can get off the air so WNAX can cover more cattle reports and ag news". USD has D1 radio coverage with bush league play by play guy. SDSU has an average play by play guy with very subpar pre and post game considering they are now D1. All in all USD has better overall radio coverage for football and basketball.

[89rabbit]

Re: NCC schools contemplate conference's future

I agree that the play by play is better from Steve Imming.  I have heard him often complain about officiating so it's not just Culhaine that is the homer.  With that said USD has way better overall radio coverage on their radio network for games.  They have a 2 hour pregame.  They cover this week in D2 football.  They cover the NAIA and major college as well.  They have a very good Coyote based pregame as well which covers an hour.  They have good interviews with the opposing coaches as well as their own.  They have post game highlights, interviews with the head coach, assistant coaches and players.  They have a much more detailed pre game and post game.  With WNAX you get a few minutes for a pre game show and after the game it's "lets see how fast we can get off the air so WNAX can cover more cattle reports and ag news".   USD has D1 radio coverage with bush league play by play guy.  SDSU has an average play by play guy with very subpar pre and post game considering they are now D1.  All in all USD has better overall radio coverage for football and basketball.  

I will give you that WNAX needs to step it up on the pre- and post-game part of the equation.  But with that said the most important part of the broadcast is the game, and you yourself admitted that SDSU’s broadcast team is better.  I also have to say that Steve Imming is way better then average and if you can’t admit that you are not being intellectually honest.  Another thing you fail to consider is coverage.  The Coyote Radio "Network" with it's 4 stations (2 of which joined this season) doesn't cover half the territory that WNAX does.  WNAX touches 7 states.  It has one of the strongest signals in the Mid-West (if not the nation).  From what I hear if you live on the South side of Sioux City you can't listen to the Coyote games.  Another thing to think about before you try and compare USD’s network to SDSU's radio affiliations is that we broadcast all Football, Men's Basketball, Women's Basketball, Volleyball, and many Baseball and Softball games.  Yesterday as an example you could listen to our Football game on WNAX or Volleyball on KJJQ as they were going on at the same time.  Or like me listen to the football game and then switch to Volleyball after football wrapped up, and enjoy two SDSU victories.  Your radio coverage is very nice for a D-II school, but don't kid yourself it is not on par with what we have here at the State only D-I University.  


Go State!  


P.S.  Your radio guys name is spelled Culhane.  Usually I am not big on pointing out spelling errors, but we are talking about a person's name.  In this case your person's name.   ;D

[filbert]

Re: NCC schools contemplate conference's future

One thing to look for in determining a "homer" announcer is how often (and how strenuously) does he complain about a bad call that benefits his team.

Imming does that frequently. There's no doubt in any listener's mind that Imming is rooting for SDSU, but you can also say that of some of the great announcers in the game today (i.e. Kansas' Bob Davis).

USD has put together a nice radio network, but with the limited signal of their flagship Yankton/Vermillion station, they really don't have much of a choice.

You'll also get no argument from me that WNAX's pre- and post-game shows are dreadfully anemic. There should be at least a one-hour football pregame, at least a half-hour basketball pregame, and at least a half-hour call-in/commentary show after the post-game interview/stats show, in my opinion. (All streamed on the Internet so folks like me can listen in, of course). Easy for me to say, I don't have to go out and sell ad time to pay for it. I imagine air time on WNAX isn't exactly cheap.

Question: Does the 2-hour pregame show get broadcast on all of the USD network affiliates or just on the Vermillion station?

[Rabbitlivinginverm]

Re: NCC schools contemplate conference's future

Filbert, I believe the pre-game coverage for USD games in just in the Vermillion/Yankton area.

Coyote Fan, there's no doubt we need better pre/post game coverage, but Imming and Jerry O. are some of the best around. I think Imming won a pretty prestigous award a few years back, maybe I'm wrong???

WNAX's area coverage is awesome. Yesterday, I was listening via internet until the last couple of minutes and then had to leave. I tuned in to WNAX 570 in my vehicle and was able to catch the last 2 minutes of the game. It came in crystal clear - I live in Sturgis. My brother, who lives in New Hope, MN - just outside of Mpls, can occassionally get the signal.

[Haldersham]

Re: NCC schools contemplate conference's future

One thing to look for in determining a "homer" announcer is how often (and how strenuously) does he complain about a bad call that benefits his team.

Imming does that frequently.  There's no doubt in any listener's mind that Imming is rooting for SDSU, but you can also say that of some of the great announcers in the game today (i.e. Kansas' Bob Davis).  

USD has put together a nice radio network, but with the limited signal of their flagship Yankton/Vermillion station, they really don't have much of a choice.

You'll also get no argument from me that WNAX's pre- and post-game shows are dreadfully anemic.  There should be at least a one-hour football pregame, at least a half-hour basketball pregame, and at least a half-hour call-in/commentary show after the post-game interview/stats show, in my opinion.  (All streamed on the Internet so folks like me can listen in, of course).  Easy for me to say, I don't have to go out and sell ad time to pay for it.  I imagine air time on WNAX isn't exactly cheap.

Question:  Does the 2-hour pregame show get broadcast on all of the USD network affiliates or just on the Vermillion station?

I listened to KELO yesterday and heard the pregame one hour show. I assume the other hour is post game, and judging from KELO, the affiliates apparently carry the post game shows. In my view the pre show was not that great. All they have is the guy from Development tell about tailgating opportunities, interviews with the O and D coorindator and opposing coach plus, Coach Ed. They spent a lot of time rehashing the prior game and all the great runs by Logan. All this costs money and what the sponsor does not pay, USD does.

About a week ago, I caught the Culhane In The Zone show on Monday. Weekly he has an interview with Coach Stig. They no doubt are trying right to upstage SDSU on promotions. Also while listening to the Zone show, and going west on I-90, I wanted to catch what Coach Stig had to say after the Montana game, and I had to depend on every hill between Mitchell and Chamberlain to just barely hear a very statically signal. So yes the vermin station has no power.

I think the difference between these SDSU and USD in Pre-Post game show is what each school wants to spend on these shows. USD seems to think they have a great product so they are  buying the time where they dont have a sponsor. I think if SDSU wanted to get more time, it would be just a matter of finding the sponsors and it would happen. My guess is its not in the budget, but maybe should be.

[StormnNorman]

Re: NCC schools contemplate conference's future

I could be wrong, but I thought that the radio stations pay the school. I thought that was what KVHT did.

[Haldersham]

Re: NCC schools contemplate conference's future

That would be true if the vermin station had exclusive rights and maybe they do, but if the stations can not sell the advertisements to cover the radio time, then USD eats the bill. After all the football team does not belong to the radio station.

The deal with WNAX is the opposite, SDSU pays them, SDSU gets all the revenue for the advertisement. If USD sold all their rights to to KVHT or whatever the call letters are, then USD gets zip from the adds, but a bill for unadvertized time.

You would have to have privity to the contract to know all the details. My point is I believe USD is spending more on promotion in the form of pre and post game shows.

[Yote53]

Re: NCC schools contemplate conference's future

I think that the SDSU broadast team is better, but the overall gameday coverage of a USD game, pre and post included ismore comprehensive. I don't think anyone here has the insight to comment on the inner workings of the finances of USD's dealings with Culhane Communications. It is entirely possible that part of the deal is that Culhane eats the bill for unadvertised time. i don't know. I do know that the pre and post shows are sponsored by a laundry list of businesses. That's when they play the music at the start of the broadcast and cover the list of sponsors.

Anyways, my take is this:

Area coverage/signal strength: SDSU w/WNAX (btw I believe the most powerful signal is 590 out of Omaha, flip to it if in you are in Brookings now.)

Announcers: SDSU

Overall coverage: USD

Announcer that most resembles Ron Santo (Cubs broadcaster): USD, Kevin Culhane. He's a homer, of course he is. This isn't an ESPN Sunday night game of the week broadcast where he is supposed to be impartial.