USD -UCA game

[MilwaukeeJacksAlum]

Re: USD -UCA game

The simple idea that I am trying to get across is that you can't judge a season by one game.  I believe in my initial post on this thread I stated that there was no excuse for the loss, but that doesn't mean one shouldn't talk about the reasons for the loss or point out some good things that were done in the game as well.  I think if anyone wanted to talk to SDSU fans about the Lacrosse game they would tell you that there was no excuse for the loss but also there were some very strange conditions with the field etc that led to a score that might have been a bit deceiving.  There were also alot of factors that led to UCA winning 24-0.  UCA fans all said that they were very impressed with the Coyote defense.  It's even on the story on their home page about the game.  You can disagree with me all you want to but usually in a game where the difference between D1AA and D2 could be measured you would often look to things like total yardage as an important measuring stick to the teams.  Obviously the score is more important and so are turnovers etc.  I just think that from a mere talent perspective that yardage totals are a big factor of gaging how teams compete with each other.  As I said turnovers and penalties are alot important and are somewhat connected to talent but those factors are probably more associated with things such as experience level, coaching, being at home or on the road and other intangibles not necessarily associated with a difference in talent level.  

USD should not be judged on their ability to compete at the D1AA level by just one game, especially one where the conditions associated are going to obviously favor one team.  Obviously UND more than held their own against UNI but they haven't played very well since then.  Central Wash beat a D1AA team but that isn't going to help them next week when all the intangible factors will be against them and in favor of USD.  Not all D1AA teams are created equal.  USD won't really be able to tell how they will compete against D1AA as a whole until they play a season against the division.  When they have a chance to have some home games and road games and get to play a wide variety of teams.  If SDSU was judged by their first game in D1AA they lost quite badly in that game if I recall.  They became more accustomed to the division and have improved in their preperation etc.   Maybe we will never really know if USD stays D2 but most likely they will go D1 and the argument will start to become a moot point because the U will be able to prove it or not on the field.    

I completely understood your idea.  I was merely pointing out the inherent contradiction in your "idea" as to how it was presented after our loss to UWL.  Here is the formula.

After the UWL loss.
1) We lose to UWL.
2) You post a thread stating because of that ONE loss, USD could step into 1AA with no problems.
3) SDSU fans say, B.S. - the speed and skill is simply too great at 1AA.
4) You say that speed and skill are not different and the UWL game proves that premise.  
5) In short, you use the ONE UWL game as proof that you're correct in you assertions.

After the UCA game
1) You lose to UCA.
2) You post a thread stating because of ONE loss, USD shouldn't be judged on their ability to compete at the 1AA level.
3) Some SDSU fans, myself included, point out the fact that you used the one game excuse in our loss to UWL and you can't have it both ways.
4) You say we're not getting the gist of your argument.
5) I tell you I get the gist, but am still going to point out that you did a complete 180 on your reasoning you so joyously put out there after our UWL loss.

I'm not trying to beat a dead horse here, but I would simply like a little syrup with that waffle next time.  The reason I don't go on the USD website and post things that essentially amount to "SDSU is the best and USD sucks" is becuase that will always, ALWAYS, come back to bite you in the @ss.  You seem not to mind making those statements, but don't necessarily enjoy the bite.

[jackmd]

Re: USD -UCA game

1 step further with MJA's point;

If USD had defeated UCA or even made it close, it wouldn't have meant anything in support of your flawed logic. A divison with 63 scholarships will always be better than a division with 1/2 that number. That my friend is logical. If you don't think SDSU's current football program includes an increased number of more talented players than during the DII years, you're naive. Single games where DII teams defeat DI teams or IAA teams defeat IA teams or NAIA teams beat DII teams or DIII teams beat IAA teams (get it) don't make a lick of difference.

Fact is fact, USD in its current state is a much better football program than it was pre-Meierkort. That understood, they are not a DI program nor should they be expected to be.

Bit of advice, take it or leave it, USD better keep the focus on USD. That goes for admin, coaches, students, fans, etc.. if you keep aspiring to be SDSU you'll always be disappointed. Each institution is unique and thats what makes the philosophy of higher education in South Dakota work. Make it work where you're at before jumping into what will probably be a heap of trouble (opinion). Good luck to USDII this weekend. Who is coming to town?

[89rabbit]

Re: USD -UCA game

1 step further with MJA's point;

If USD had defeated UCA or even made it close, it wouldn't have meant anything in support of your flawed logic.  A divison with 63 scholarships will always be better than a division with 1/2 that number.  That my friend is logical.  If you don't think SDSU's current football program includes an increased number of more talented players than during the DII years, you're naive.  Single games where DII teams defeat DI teams or IAA teams defeat IA teams or NAIA teams beat DII teams or DIII teams beat IAA teams (get it) don't make a lick of difference.

Fact is fact, USD in its current state is a much better football program than it was pre-Meierkort.  That understood, they are not a DI program nor should they be expected to be.  

Bit of advice, take it or leave it, USD better keep the focus on USD.  That goes for admin, coaches, students, fans, etc.. if you keep aspiring to be SDSU you'll always be disappointed.  Each institution is unique and thats what makes the philosophy of higher education in South Dakota work.  Make it work where you're at before jumping into what will probably be a heap of trouble (opinion).  Good luck to USDII this weekend.  Who is coming to town?

Clearly our friend is not alone, down in Vermillion, in his lack of understanding when it comes to the differences between D-I and D-II.  Here is a link to a Volante that seems like it could have been writen by Coyote-Fan.  

http://media.www.volanteonline.com/m...epublisher.com

Division I: Difference in competition

Jeremy Hoeck

Within three months, USD will have made a decision whether or not to pursue Division I athletics. That much is known for sure.

What is not known, however, is how competitive the Coyotes will be against D-I foes.

Aside from football - which would be classified as DI-AA - all Coyote athletic programs would compete against D-I schools. The major difference between the two classifications is the number of scholarships given out; I-A gets 85, I-AA gets 63.

To the layman, this would lead many to think USD would not stand a chance against improved opponents.

But the layman would be wrong, senior punter Lucas Mikkelsen claims.

The fourth-year athlete on the 4-1 Coyote football team says there is no reason to believe DI-AA competition would be any better than schools in the North Central Conference.

"DI-AA isn't magically better than where we are," the Gregory, S.D., native said. "It's much like the NCC used to be. There's really not much difference. There have been a bunch of upsets this year where D-II teams have beaten D-I teams." . . . (read more)


Looks like many Yotes have partaken from the same Kool-Aid jug.   ;D


Go State!  

[West_River_Jack]

Re: USD -UCA game

A week earlier the Volante carried an article written by Tina Keller.  She is the professor who chairs the task force at USC which is examining this issue.  I believe that she is a physics professor.  She is also a former basketball player for NDSU.  She may or may not be giving a hint of what will be coming out of the task force.

http://www.volanteonline.com/media/s...anteonline.com

KELLER: Changing nature of USD, DII athletics spurs task force to examine DI options
Tina Keller
Issue date: 9/27/06 Section: Opinion
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Tina Keller
[Click to enlarge]


Nearly five years ago, the University of South Dakota appointed a Futures Committee to review the status of athletics. I was a part of that committee and in 2002, the decision was easy to make. USD was part of a conference that was recognized nationally as one of the premier Division II leagues. Division II athletics was home to exemplary student-athletes. Higher education in the state emphasized undergraduate teaching, with research and graduate education a smaller part of the mission. Finally, USD Foundation had just begun a fundraising campaign, with an ambitious, some said unrealistic, goal of $60 million. Much has changed in five years.

(read more)

[MilwaukeeJacksAlum]

Re: USD -UCA game

Maybe I'm reading that article with blue and yellow glasses, but it sounds alot like she's pushing for the "we can't sit back and watch SDSU succeed at the D1 level.  We're USD for crimey's sake!" excuse for wanting to move up.  "Remember, we are the University of South Dakota." (direct quote from the article)

[el_presidente]

Re: USD -UCA game

Division I: Difference in competition

Jeremy Hoeck


To the layman, this would lead many to think USD would not stand a chance against improved opponents.

But the layman would be wrong, senior punter Lucas Mikkelsen claims.
The fourth-year athlete on the 4-1 Coyote football team says there is no reason to believe DI-AA competition would be any better than schools in the North Central Conference.

"DI-AA isn't magically better than where we are," the Gregory, S.D., native said. "It's much like the NCC used to be. There's really not much difference. There have been a bunch of upsets this year where D-II teams have beaten D-I teams."  .  .  .  (read more)

My favorite part of this weeks volante article is that they quoted the punter. The USD punter probably wants to move up to Division I so that he gets alot more playing time. Then again if they turn the ball over five times he doesn't get that much more playing time anyways.

[Haldersham]

Re: USD -UCA game

A week earlier the Volante carried an article written by Tina Keller.  She is the professor who chairs the task force at USC which is examining this issue.  I believe that she is a physics professor.  She is also a former basketball player for NDSU.  She may or may not be giving a hint of what will be coming out of the task force.

http://www.volanteonline.com/media/s...anteonline.com

KELLER: Changing nature of USD, DII athletics spurs task force to examine DI options
Tina Keller
Issue date: 9/27/06 Section: Opinion
• Print
• Email
• Article Tools
• Page 1 of 1

Tina Keller
[Click to enlarge]


Nearly five years ago, the University of South Dakota appointed a Futures Committee to review the status of athletics. I was a part of that committee and in 2002, the decision was easy to make. USD was part of a conference that was recognized nationally as one of the premier Division II leagues. Division II athletics was home to exemplary student-athletes. Higher education in the state emphasized undergraduate teaching, with research and graduate education a smaller part of the mission. Finally, USD Foundation had just begun a fundraising campaign, with an ambitious, some said unrealistic, goal of $60 million. Much has changed in five years.

(read more)

A sixty million dollar goal is a real indication that the decision to D1 gets a big green light this fall. How they will fare in the fund raising remains to be seen. We havent been exceptional in raising 20 million. Its tough going, unless they got Al Neuharth thinking donation. Maybe Sanford too, but I think the difference between SDSU goal of 20 and USD 60 is that they are planning new facilities such as a basketball arena. I hope they are not thinking stupid and plan a ice hockey arena.

Opps the 60 million fund raiser was not for athletics, I thought it was but after reading the article they are speaking of the current one that included all of Sanfords money to Sioux Valley. Some one told me that USD included estate planning in their 120 million total. If so thatst kind of uncertainty as the person making that kind of pledge can change their mind several times before they leave the living. I dont know if that is the facts or not. I do know for a fact that SDSU does not do that. They have file cabinets full of wills and what have you but they are never mentioned publically until the person making the donations is no longer living.

I dont think USD is going to have a much easier path than SDSU in raising funds for D1 athletics. I think the green light will still be on in December at USD.