What Would a Renewed USD - SDSU rivalry be like

[Coyote_Fan]

Who knows if it will happen but it's alot more likely than it was 6 months ago. As much as some fans may want it and other fans wish it would never come back it's probably going to be a reality again.

As far as both schools administrations are concerned alot is depending on alot quite frankly. I don't think any serious bridges were burnt at least not to the point of beyond repair. The rivalry would probably be a good thing in many ways. Of course there will always be the ugly moments but this rivalry doesn't just remind many fans of how much they dislike one another but also how much they love their own Universities. I would think for SDSU to get a couple more rivalries back in UND and USD would be the best of both worlds. They would get their D1 high prestige athletics and get some old feel to it as well.

Much would depend on the kind of money USD would be able to raise to support such a move. Some say it would be a very tough and ultimately failing venture others say it could be done with success. Since I have been a USD fan and or alum which goes back about 15 years I have never seen the leadership as good as it is now at President and AD. Honestly if it's weren't for those individuals I can't say for certain that USD would even consider a move.

SDSU in my opinion has moved up with moderate success so far. Not so good in mens basketball, OK in football and very good in womens basketball. All in all an acceptable start to being D1. I can't really say much for your other sports but I would say that success probably mirrors the big 3 sports as you go down the line.

USD has been pretty good in basketball for awile and football has been pretty lousy for a long time just after some very good years. Now the good times are back again. What concerns me is some of the other sports at USD that kind of stink. Volleyball has been bad and so has softball. I guess cross country and track and field have been pretty good as has soccer. Other sports just kind of wallow. It will be as interesting to see what happens to the behind the scenes sports as it does the big ones. Will an increase in budget and maybe better leadership lead to any more success in the sports that have been mediocre or will they just continue to be mediocre.

Going into a potential transaction my primary focus will be on football, basketball and to a slightly smaller extent womens basketball. The other sports will need to make a name on their own if at all. I have no idea if or what sports will be added or dropped but I would think some kind of minor adjustment would be made.

SDSU has a good facility for basketball and a mediocre facility for football. The opposite can be said for USD. I think that USD will have their focus on a basketball facility somewhere down the road as they do need one. For football as much as some of you hate on the dome it does work quite well. If fixed seating can be added to the west side of the dome that would make the dome a very adequete D1AA facility with a likely capacity between 15-20K.

SDSU is obviously ahead in the transition and that will make for an edge to SDSU in all head to head competitions, but that isn't to say USD won't have their share of success as well. On the average across all sports SDSU will hold the early edge.

As far as coaching is concerened I think Meierkort is just as capable if not moreso in being able to transition the football program to 1AA as Boots will be with the basketball program. It will be interesting to see which program will transition with more success. I think if you would have asked the SDSU people 3 years ago they would have never believed that the football program would have been the one to take the early lead vs hoops. I am not at all surprised that your women's basketball program was able to find immediate success. I actually sort of suspected it. It would appear that your basketball team is still going to be young this season. I am sure many Jackrabbit fans are starting to wonder when Nagy will get that program at a bit higher level. I wouldn't be all that surprised if Boots would have that same problem. It seems as if NDSU hasn't faired too badly but a bit much was made of their win against Wisconsin when you compare that to the rest of their season. Not a bad year but not earth shattering.

If USD announces D1 in a month or so does anyone have any predictions as to when the first game in any sport will be scheduled? I believe that USD's transitional year would be 07-08 which would be the same as UND.

I don't want to make this into a smack thread. Just some honest comments.

[Rabbitden]

Re: What Would a Renewed USD - SDSU rivalry be lik

I am one long, long, long time SDSU fan...not just athletics but all things considered as SDSU related.
I know a lot of you on here like to talk about USD and like Coyote-Fans input, I personally could care less what USD does.  I wish them the best in what ever decision they make but I think we are wasting our time on this site to keep entertaining USD's ambitions.  There is nothing we can do or not do that will effect the decision USD makes and it is a waste of our time to even talk about it.

This is not a knock at you personally Coyote_Fan...it is just not our cause.  If the Yotes jump up we will see what happens, until then it does no good for anyone to speculate the future.

My only problem with this whole decision by USD is their lack of vision in the past and their blind ambitions for the future.  Even the letter sent out to all the "U" fans by your exploritory board is flawed...example; "South Dakota is the only state in the union to not have a Flagship Land Grant University at the Div. I level".  When did USD become a Land Grant University and if that is the case, what would USD consider SDSU?  Also, why is the questionaire written one sided without weighing the positves and negatives of the move with equal value?

This to me is a lack of general research, orginality and knowledge of the United States Land Grant System.  Which to me says not alot of hard thought is being made on the committees part and it is only a rubber stamp for something already decided.

Again this is not a knock at you Coyote_Fan, just trying to figure out why now is such a great time but three years ago wasnt when NDSU and SDSU proposed the whole conference make the jump together which would of helped maintain athletic budgets, scholarships, active alignment of sports, etc...?

These questions are more important to me rather than when could USD and SDSU meet again on the playing field.  Remember it wasnt SDSU and NDSU that burned the bridges on the two Universities as far as continuing games against each other.

Again...good luck in the future what ever direction is approved but most off all represent South Dakota well the rest of this year at the Div. II level.

[89rabbit]

Re: What Would a Renewed USD - SDSU rivalry be lik

Ah Den (aka Grasshopper),

Now I understand the question you presented to me on another thread.  I don't believe that USD is trying to claim "Land Grant" status in the letter that you referenced.  What I think they are trying to do is create an artificial distinction between what they term "Flagship" Universities (like themselves) and "Land Grant" Universities like SDSU.

This of course flies in the face of what is generally a universally accepted academic definition of "Flagship University":

Chancellor Robert M. Berdahl’s - University of California, Berkeley wrote, “What do we mean by the term "Flagship" universities? The term applies, in all the cases I can think of, to the fully mature public universities serving most of states. In most cases, these institutions were the first public universities to be established in their states. Many of what we now call the Flagship campuses were established in the extraordinary period of university building that took place in the United States in the roughly three decades from the mid-1850s to the mid-1880s. Many came into being after the Morrill Act of 1863 provided the federal grants of land to the states to establish public universities. Some states built two institutions, a land-grant college focused on agriculture and the "mechanical arts" as well as general education, and another more directed at classical education and the other professions. For example, Michigan, Indiana, Iowa, Washington, and Texas, among others, built separate institutions, while Illinois, Minnesota, Ohio, and California combined the land-grant and liberal arts function on a single campus. These institutions formed the core of the public systems of higher education in their respective states. State teachers colleges, later evolving into regional state colleges or universities, formed the rest of the higher education institutions in most states.”

So the reality is that both USD and SDSU are "Flagship" Universities and the last part of the letter was just a sad attempt to try and make the USD faithful feel special.  :  ;D



Go State!  



P.S.  Here is a link if you would like to know more about "Land Grant" Status:

http://www.higher-ed.org/resources/morrill_acts.htm

[CatchEmAll]

Re: What Would a Renewed USD - SDSU rivalry be lik

Didn't read any of the posts (sorry den and 89), but in response to the subject line, a renewed rivalry would be a waste of time. The "rivalry" turned into a disrespect-fest as it wound down and it became very apparent that SDSU put more time into the safety and enjoyment of its fans at these games as USD decided to let childish antics ruin events for all (trust me Yote fan, I had a deep involvement with game management so I know of what I speak). If we can draw 12,000+ to a game vs UCA then it proves we don't need USD to bring fans in. The athletic department, when I was there, operated under the premise that while the USD game was great for attendance, it wasn't as important as the entire season's worth of attendance. One game does not a season make. I know some will argue that in BB we will draw way more people to a USD game than any other game during the year. But, keep in mind, as the team improves and gets footing in the Mid Con, home games will become a bigger event as the luster of the "Big Dance" becomes a reality. People will come, USD or not.

So, to reiterate my stance :P on the rivalry. SDSU moved on, let USD do what it will but don't drag us back down to your level.

[89rabbit]

Re: What Would a Renewed USD - SDSU rivalry be lik

Didn't read any of the posts (sorry den and 89), but in response to the subject line, a renewed rivalry would be a waste of time.  The "rivalry" turned into a disrespect-fest as it wound down and it became very apparent that SDSU put more time into the safety and enjoyment of its fans at these games as USD decided to let childish antics ruin events for all (trust me Yote fan, I had a deep involvement with game management so I know of what I speak).  If we can draw 12,000+ to a game vs UCA then it proves we don't need USD to bring fans in.  The athletic department, when I was there, operated under the premise that while the USD game was great for attendance, it wasn't as important as the entire season's worth of attendance.  One game does not a season make.  I know some will argue that in BB we will draw way more people to a USD game than any other game during the year. But, keep in mind, as the team improves and gets footing in the Mid Con, home games will become a bigger event as the luster of the "Big Dance" becomes a reality.  People will come, USD or not.

So, to reiterate my stance  :P on the rivalry. SDSU moved on, let USD do what it will but don't drag us back down to your level.

Amen, brother Rabbit!


Go State!

[EQguy]

Re: What Would a Renewed USD - SDSU rivalry be lik

[quote author=CatchEmAll link=1161157789/0#3 date=1161178109]Didn't read any of the posts (sorry den and 89), but in response to the subject line, a renewed rivalry would be a waste of time.  The "rivalry" turned into a disrespect-fest as it wound down and it became very apparent that SDSU put more time into the safety and enjoyment of its fans at these games as USD decided to let childish antics ruin events for all (trust me Yote fan, I had a deep involvement with game management so I know of what I speak).  If we can draw 12,000+ to a game vs UCA then it proves we don't need USD to bring fans in.  The athletic department, when I was there, operated under the premise that while the USD game was great for attendance, it wasn't as important as the entire season's worth of attendance.  One game does not a season make.  I know some will argue that in BB we will draw way more people to a USD game than any other game during the year. But, keep in mind, as the team improves and gets footing in the Mid Con, home games will become a bigger event as the luster of the "Big Dance" becomes a reality.  People will come, USD or not.

So, to reiterate my stance  :P on the rivalry. SDSU moved on, let USD do what it will but don't drag us back down to your level.

Amen, brother Rabbit!


Go State!  
[/quote]

I agree all we would get is venom, pure venom. Nothing good would come out of it but selling a few seats at an event once a season.

[SF_Rabbit_Fan]

Re: What Would a Renewed USD - SDSU rivalry be lik

Didn't read any of the posts (sorry den and 89), but in response to the subject line, a renewed rivalry would be a waste of time.  The "rivalry" turned into a disrespect-fest as it wound down and it became very apparent that SDSU put more time into the safety and enjoyment of its fans at these games as USD decided to let childish antics ruin events for all (trust me Yote fan, I had a deep involvement with game management so I know of what I speak).  If we can draw 12,000+ to a game vs UCA then it proves we don't need USD to bring fans in.  The athletic department, when I was there, operated under the premise that while the USD game was great for attendance, it wasn't as important as the entire season's worth of attendance.  One game does not a season make.  I know some will argue that in BB we will draw way more people to a USD game than any other game during the year. But, keep in mind, as the team improves and gets footing in the Mid Con, home games will become a bigger event as the luster of the "Big Dance" becomes a reality.  People will come, USD or not.

So, to reiterate my stance  :P on the rivalry. SDSU moved on, let USD do what it will but don't drag us back down to your level.

I couldn't agree more.  The fans will come back, new rivalries will blossom even if State never plays USD again.

What I am about to say is not intended to be smack, just some observations from games I have been to.  The last few years, the dome was one of the harshest environments for a team to play a basketball game or football game.  Food being thrown at players, obscenity laced chants, players intentionally atempting to hurt each other, etc....  Unfortunately, because of the atmosphere, many families no longer felt comfortable bringing their children to games in Vermillion.  It became an atmosphere of "what will happen this year."  Instead of "who will win the game and by how much."

Also, for Coyote fans who think the behavior, t-shirts, or chants displayed at games are somehow humorous, I believe most DI conferences would have cracked down pretty hard on a lot of the behavior, especially when the school administration appears uninterested in controling their crowd.  When bad things happen at a DI school it shows up on ESPN.com or Sports Center.  When bad things happen at a DII school, it might be in the Argus Leader.

[West_River_Jack]

Re: What Would a Renewed USD - SDSU rivalry be lik

Moving up to Division 1 is a lot (a lot really is 2 words in this context) more than adding money and scholarships.  It also involves an increased maturity level.  I hope that if USD and Augie move up to D-1 in the future that the disrespect will change to respect between all teams.  Many fans fear moving to Division 1 because dominance will no longer be a possibility for us.  Mutual respect, in the long run, will be much more satisfying than dominance.

[Ozark_Jack]

Re: What Would a Renewed USD - SDSU rivalry be lik

I NEVER wish to play usd again. We moved on. I get far more enjoyment out of playing other larger universities outside of the area. There is so much more respect shown, and a much more enjoyable experience all around. The trip to vermillion is like going to a large nursery. usd needs to concentrating on playing their peer institutions like MSU-Mankato. UNO, Truman St, and Bemidji St and the like...

[1stRowFANatic]

Re: What Would a Renewed USD - SDSU rivalry be lik

If we play them we play them, not worried about it at this time.

[Jacks02]

Re: What Would a Renewed USD - SDSU rivalry be lik

I NEVER wish to play usd again. We moved on. I get far more enjoyment out of playing other larger universities outside of the area. There is so much more respect shown, and a much more enjoyable experience all around. The trip to vermillion is like going to a large nursery. usd needs to concentrating on playing their peer institutions like MSU-Mankato. UNO, Truman St, and Bemidji St and the like...

Right on.  I have no interest in playing USD anymore either.  I have little respect for the school or the fans after the terrible experience I had at the Dakota Dome the last time we played basketball there.  The thought of playing them pretty much makes me feel ill.  I love the GWFC for football and am enjoying seeing new schools come into Frost, not to mention watching our big games on ESPNU and the like.  We've moved on to bigger and better things...

[valleyrabbit]

Re: What Would a Renewed USD - SDSU rivalry be lik

It won't exist for a long time even if both schools are D-1

1. If USD moves up there first year in D-1 will be 2008-09. This will be SDSU's first year of full eligibility in all sports. We will have a D-1 Independent vs. a fully eligible Mid-Con member. Is that a rivalry.

2. It won't happen in football. I think there is a 99 out of 100 chance we will be playing in the Gateway Football conference no later than the 2008 season. This will give us 8 games. We will play 1 game against a 1-A school. This only gives us two other games. One will likely be against a lower division or non-scholarship foe to give us another home game. The other will likely be against a good non-conference 1-AA team (e.g. Cal Poly, UC Davis, Nichols St., Montana, etc.) No room for the U there for a good while.

3. Basketball, maybe? We will have 18 conference games and 11 non-conference games. We want to play in the big dance. The Mid-Con tradionally has been a low RPI conference. To help our RPI I believe Nagy, AJ and Fred will aggressively schedule in the non-conference to help our seeding in the Big Dance and to give us a chance to get an at-large bid if we don't win the Mid-Con tourney. Playing a D-1 Independent making the transition won't help our RPI any.

4. USD needs us a lot more than we need them. It appears out sports will be set for the future when it comes to conference affiliation and scheduling. They will be playing an independent schedule and will need games. Not being in the same conference will also force us to play them early in the year. Just think rather than playing USD on a Friday or Saturday night during Jan or Feb we could be playing them on a Tuesday night in November.

5. Forget about USD. The rivalry is dead and buried. Let's move on to our new rivals: NDSU (always has been, but really is our main rival now), Northern Iowa (this will blossom into a hated rivalry, they took our flags and I am biased because I live 1 mile from the UNI Dome/Mcleod Center, so I hope the Jacks make several trips here), Oral Roberts, and hopefully Creighton will start making their way onto our schedule (nice win for us in volleyball this season).

[gojacksgo]

Re: What Would a Renewed USD - SDSU rivalry be lik

3. Basketball, maybe?  We will have 18 conference games and 11 non-conference games.  We want to play in the big dance.  The Mid-Con tradionally has been a low RPI conference.  To help our RPI I believe Nagy, AJ and Fred will aggressively schedule in the non-conference to help our seeding in the Big Dance and to give us a chance to get an at-large bid if we don't win the Mid-Con tourney.  Playing a D-1 Independent making the transition won't help our RPI any.

If USD would move up, why wouldn't we schedule them? They are a good, regional team that will draw a huge crowd - hope it turns into a good rivalry rather than what it has been though.

You are talking about going to the big dance already? This is certainly not a knock on the Basketball program, but do the Jacks really have a chance in the coming years? I would say it will be at least 3-4 years, and we'll see from there. Most teams do not transition to D1 and make it to the NCAA Tourney right away. You're also talking about needing a tough schedule in order to possibly make the tourney as an at-large? How many at-large's has the mid-con gotten? Last one was 15 years ago...

That said, I hope they do make the dance right away, but scheduling a game against USD will not hurt our chances, and I don't think any selection committe will take the Jackrabbits serious as an at-large bid for a while....no matter what their program is like. I think they have to win the conference in order to make it to the tournament. Could be wrong though I guess....

I can see your point if the Jacks get to the point where they need to play a tougher schedule each year, and I'm not saying they shouldn't try to schedule some tough games, but they should also be looking for games that they can win right now.

[valleyrabbit]

Re: What Would a Renewed USD - SDSU rivalry be lik

[quote author=gojacksgo link=1161157789/0#12 date=1161393005][quote author=rabbitinunicntry link=1161157789/0#11 date=1161388067]
   
You are talking about going to the big dance already?  This is certainly not a knock on the Basketball program, but do the Jacks really have a chance in the coming years?  I would say it will be at least 3-4 years, and we'll see from there.  Most teams do not transition to D1 and make it to the NCAA Tourney right away.  You're also talking about needing a tough schedule in order to possibly make the tourney as an at-large?  How many at-large's has the mid-con gotten?  Last one was 15 years ago...

Yes I am talking about the big dance, one of the biggest reasons we went D-1. I am looking ahead to the future not at the past because I believe in Coach Nagy and SDSU basketball. I believe we should look at BB programs like Wichita St, Gonzaga, George Mason, Southern Illinois, and Creighton as role models for our program. Want to play regional schools, lets play Creighton, Northern Iowa, Drake, Wyoming, Montana, Montana St, Minnesota, Iowa, and Iowa St. Playing USD is like fighting a girl. If we win no one will care. If we lose everyone will think USD is way ahead of where we are even though we moved up 4 years before they did. Let's move on.

[gojacksgo]

Re: What Would a Renewed USD - SDSU rivalry be lik

Really?  Did SDSU move to D1 because they were going to make it to the big dance in the next three years?  I certainly believe in Nagy and the rest of coaching staff and players.  They will be back to where they used to be.  

Should we Look at Witchita State, And sign 1 and 0 contracts?  Let's just play on the road the whole year?  

Please tell me the good regional schools(besides conference) Creighton has played 1 and 1....Have they been playing Montana, Montana State, Wyoming, etc each year? Why would they come to SDSU for game right now?


If the Jacks would happen to play all of those schools each year, what would the record be? We are talking about major or top mid-major programs...we might win 2 of those games tops this year- will that help the Jacks get to the big dance? When was the last time a team got to the tourney with 2 non-conference wins?

I will agree that as the Jacks rise back to where they used to be as a basketball program, they will need a tough non-conference schedule. But right now, for the most part, they need games they have a chance at winning. Having a 2-15 non-conference record would not help them learn how to win again.