NDSU, SDSU, UND & USD to the Gateway

[Coyote_Fan]

I am not saying it's going to happen but just some food for thought.

http://coyotesports.proboards100.com...ead=1161873006

[CatchEmAll]

Re: NDSU, SDSU, UND & USD to the Gateway

[smiley=lolk.gif]

not at you Coyote_Fan, just at the thought in general. Good stuff.

[jackmd]

Re: NDSU, SDSU, UND & USD to the Gateway

You have to be DI before you can join a DI conference. Fact, SDSU is DI and has accepted membership in the DI Mid-Continent conference. Fact, SDSU is a member of the DIAA Great West Football Conference, the highest rated conference in DIAA (by GPI). Fact, the Gateway conference has requested information from SDSU. Everything else is hearsay, nothing more, nothing less. Time will tell.

I will tell you this, now, I don't give a damn what happens in Vermillion. I just don't care right now. I am interested in SDSU, the current program and the bright future that has kept me interested all these years. I won't waste my time consumed with what is happening at a school not even in the same division as we are. I won't do it.

[Coyote_Fan]

Re: NDSU, SDSU, UND & USD to the Gateway

Actually for SDSU it does matter what is happening at USD right now. It might not have several months ago but right now it is starting to matter again. If USD ends up in the same conference as SDSU than it matters that you better have tickets to the games at Frost or they will be sold out so you need extra preperation. It also matters because as much as some of you hate the Dakotadome alot of people that are reading this will be going back to Vermillion to cheer on the Jacks.

When conferences look at what schools they want they don't look at things for just the next 1-3 years but they want to do what is best for the long term well being of the conference. I would think that the Gateway or MidCon would understand how having each of the 4 SD U's makes it less likely in the futute that any of them will leave for another conference. Don't you think that would at least enter the mind of these administrators.

Sure USD has to declare first but I am fairly certain that Abbott and Nielson probably know what the decision is already. They probably knew as soon as UND announced their intentions. I believe that nothing is ever 100% fact or can ever be 100% be discounted until it is signed, sealed and delivered and alot of speculation is running wild from just about everyone right now. Don't think for one second that NDSU and SDSU don't want the Dakota U's to join back up again in the same conference. It makes sense in so many ways. It will only created more buzz around their own schools. Creating interest is a vital part in a successfull move. The way attendance is right now around Coughlin and Alumni I wouldn't doubt if SDSU could break their all time attendance record or come close to it if USD played up their as a D1 school. I don't know if the dome has even sold out but they have drawn 10,000 for two straight games give or take a few. If SDSU fans came down and their would be about 2,000 minimum and USD continues their resurgance at the gates, USD would have no choice but to figure out a way to add on seats because that type of a game could draw upwards of 12-13K. Just a few years ago when the schools met the attendance in Brookings was below 6,000 if I recall and in Vermillion it was under that as well.

USD and SDSU back in D1 together would create alot of buzz around the state. I don't think that is very hard to disagree with.

[jackmd]

Re: NDSU, SDSU, UND & USD to the Gateway

USD and SDSU back in D1 together would create alot of buzz around the state.  I don't think that is very hard to disagree with.    

This, my friend, may or may not be true. A lot of variables are yet to be determined. The days of the good old NCC and DII are long behind SDSU whether we like it or not. Those bridges have been burned. Many scenarios could unfold for USD and I don't think anyone can predict which is most likely.

Refer to my previous post for the scenario that is unfolding at SDSU. The gest of it is, we moved up to DI at a time we felt it was best for us. We didn't know for sure what would happen but had a pretty good idea. Things were rocky, real rocky but we weathered those storms because we wanted to reach that ultimate goal. Thats whats happening at SDSU.

Now, I don't think you can say the same for USD, hence part of the reason you are trying to convince us that your rationalization is something more than that. You won't fool me, its rationalization, think about, thats what it is.

Has someone asked the Gateway commisioner what her feelings are about the U's? That might be a better approach for gaining information about the future of USD athletics.

[Coyote_Fan]

Re: NDSU, SDSU, UND & USD to the Gateway

Actually the biggest reason SDSU moved up was because NDSU did. Same goes for USD and UND. If it wasn't for NDSU moving up SDSU would not have at that time, so don't act as if it was some kind of a revelation that SDSU had on their own. Same for USD because of UND.

[SUPERBUNNY]

Re: NDSU, SDSU, UND & USD to the Gateway

As much as I hate to admit it the day before Hobo Day, I took the bait and clicked on the link above and poked around the USD chat board.

It amazed me how everyone in Yoteville seems to think that by going D-1 that conferences will open up their arms wide open for USD and invite them in. That just simply isn't the case! I fall into the camp that the decision to move up was made a long time ago and they are simply going through the motions with this "study".

Coyote_Fan, everyone misses some of those classic battles between our two schools but there isn't any talk about the desire for USD to move up inside the athletic department at SDSU. To answer your statement, itt truly doesn't matter to SDSU what you decide to do at USD! It's completely out of our control! Having a strong D-1 USD would make for a nice rivalry again whether in the same conference or not but having a USD at the bottom isn't good for anyone! SDSU has moved on, period! If and when you catch up, I look forward to renewing the rivalry!

My worry for USD is well documented on this board. I fear the move up could put USD in D-1 purgatory for a long time without a conference home. The draw just isn't as strong in a conferences' eyes. USD is a great school and I mean no disrespect by that and I wish you all the best but it is a mistake to move up until you have a lot of the challenges addressed. I'm very curious to hear what that plan is when you eventually announce your intention to move up! LIFE IN D-1 WITHOUT A CONFERENCE SUCKS! But that's what had to be done to move up!Everything has turned out better than expected so far for SDSU and there is a very bright light at the end of our tunnel!

The move will be a much greater challenge for USD and I question whether or not the fans and donors will have the commitment to see it through the many dark years! Scholarships, staff, facilities, and travel all need to be addressed! USD is at approximately a 4 million budget and SDSU is at 8 million and still needs more to get where they want to be! THAT IS A HUGE DIFFERENCE! If there is a solid plan and a reasonable hope of funding the move, then by all means make it and we will welcome you to the next level! If not, there is nothing wrong with becoming a dominant force in D-2!

I used to cheer "Screw the U" at the games but when it comes to this issue I'm afraid "The U is screwed"!

Best of luck to the Yotes and I hope solid thinking guides your path!

SUPERBUNNY

[MilwaukeeJacksAlum]

Re: NDSU, SDSU, UND & USD to the Gateway

This isn't smack talk so don't construe it as such. If USD were to declare for D1 with say a transition start point of 2008 or 2009, I would wonder what kind of deal SDSU would make with USD to play them in basketball and football. I would imagine it would be at least a 2 for 1 deal like Montana did with us in football. It may even be a 1 and done deal at first with an agreement to revisit based on the success of the first game. There is no way USD will immediately get a 1 for 1 deal with SDSU or NDSU. At least not in my opinion. SDSU will be an established D1 program with conference affiliation. USD will be a transition team scrounging for D1 games. See SDSU's scheduling issues for the last 3 years for a reference.

[jackmd]

Re: NDSU, SDSU, UND & USD to the Gateway

Actually the biggest reason SDSU moved up was because NDSU did.  Same goes for USD and UND.  If it wasn't for NDSU moving up SDSU would not have at that time, so don't act as if it was some kind of a revelation that SDSU had on their own.  Same for USD because of UND.  

Good point, NDSU was the major launching point. The Carr group also helped many realize that it was a feasible move especially if conference affiliation could be obtained. The U's weren't in that position at the time. Are they now? That what Abbott would tell you.

[SUPERBUNNY]

Re: NDSU, SDSU, UND & USD to the Gateway

Actually the biggest reason SDSU moved up was because NDSU did.  Same goes for USD and UND.  If it wasn't for NDSU moving up SDSU would not have at that time, so don't act as if it was some kind of a revelation that SDSU had on their own.  Same for USD because of UND.  

Incorrect Coyote_Fan!

SDSU moved up due to a number of factors that include:

1. The changing landscape in division 2.
2. After NDSU and UNC announced their intentions, it was clear that the remaining NCC schools would move to cut scholarships, thus making the NCC a shadow of it's former self.
3. SDSU was the only land-grant school in the nation to not be D-1.
4. We had an administration that did due diligence in researching the move to go to the next level. They have put a solid plan in place! Thank Dr. Oien and Dr.Miller!
5. The plan to achieve the budget needed to be succesful is feasible!
6. No additional money from the state or the students to make the move.
7. The move has benefits for the entire university, not just athletics.
8. Finally, we had a rival school to make the move and package ourselves with.

SUPERBUNNY

[EQguy]

Re: NDSU, SDSU, UND & USD to the Gateway

Since we are totally speculating here. How much would you think that what AD's Taylor and Oien have to say about the UXD's will determine their future? IF they want the UXD's to tag along or not might just determine if they gain conference affiliation with us or not. Are they above the hard feelings from when we moved up?

If they move with us or not, we are likely to be able to schedule them out of conference so it is not a worry about the added attendance a game would bring.

[FargoBison]

Re: NDSU, SDSU, UND & USD to the Gateway

This isn't smack talk so don't construe it as such.  If USD were to declare for D1 with say a transition start point of 2008 or 2009, I would wonder what kind of deal SDSU would make with USD to play them in basketball and football.  I would imagine it would be at least a 2 for 1 deal like Montana did with us in football.  It may even be a 1 and done deal at first with an agreement to revisit based on the success of the first game.  There is no way USD will immediately get a 1 for 1 deal with SDSU or NDSU.  At least not in my opinion.  SDSU will be an established D1 program with conference affiliation.  USD will be a transition team scrounging for D1 games.  See SDSU's scheduling issues for the last 3 years for a reference.

There has been some talk of starting up the NDSU-UND rivalry again in 08 or 09 and if the two schools aren't in the same conference it looks like the contract will be a 2 for 1 right away with UND going to Fargo twice then the 3rd game will be in GF. After that it will probably be 1 for 1 as long as the two schools want to play each other. I bet UND is still kicking themselves for tearing up that 4 year 2 for 2 contract our AD offered them when we left DII.

[bisonguy]

Re: NDSU, SDSU, UND & USD to the Gateway

The U's will not recieve any consideration from the Gateway for the next few years for the following reasons:

1) Numbers- IF WKU leaves, NDSU and SDSU are added, the Gateway has the IDEAL nine members for a I-AA football conference. Four home/four away conference game for each school, plus three (maybe four if the twelve game proposal passes) OOC games in which to play a I-A, a regional foe, and a national I-AA. The only logical reasoning for expanding a football conference past ten members would be if the conference is I-A, in which twelve or more schools could create a televised conference championship. Another school or two will have to leave before the U's are on the Gateway's radar.

2) Playoff eligibility- When NDSU/SDSU first contacted the Gateway (before and during the exploratory year), they were told that the Gateway "would not consider any school for possible expansion that has not paid their dues in DI". Well, the Gateway, a conference that has produced up to four playoff participants in a single season, has no desire to babysit a transitional school while they wait for them to become playoff eligible. This would make the Gateway unaware of the U's until 2010 at the earliest.

3) Conference Affilitation- Yes, in order to be considered by the Gateway, as discovered by NDSU and SDSU, you need a conference for all other sports. This was one of the reasons why the Gateway showed no interest in the SU's. Why would the Gateway show interest in a school that is also pursuing membership into the Big Sky? Now, the Mid-Con MAY show interest in the U's, but it currently has no truly compelling reason to extend membership to them.

[NightHawk78]

Re: NDSU, SDSU, UND & USD to the Gateway

UND and USD have a better chance of joining the BS Conference than the Gateway......and there are only two chances that UND and USD have of getting an invite from the BS Conference......slim and none........slim is currently being locked in a dungeon somewhere on the Sacramento State campus......

[1bunnies]

Re: NDSU, SDSU, UND & USD to the Gateway

[quote author=Coyote_Fan link=1161969611/0#5 date=1161977386]Actually the biggest reason SDSU moved up was because NDSU did.  Same goes for USD and UND.  If it wasn't for NDSU moving up SDSU would not have at that time, so don't act as if it was some kind of a revelation that SDSU had on their own.  Same for USD because of UND.  

Incorrect Coyote_Fan!

SDSU moved up due to a number of factors that include:

1. The changing landscape in division 2.
2. After NDSU and UNC announced their intentions, it was clear that the remaining NCC schools would move to cut scholarships, thus making the NCC a shadow of it's former self.
3. SDSU was the only land-grant school in the nation to not be D-1.
4. We had an administration that did due diligence in researching the move to go to the next level.  They have put a solid plan in place!  Thank Dr. Oien and Dr.Miller!
5. The plan to achieve the budget needed to be succesful is feasible!
6. No additional money from the state or the students to make the move.
7. The move has benefits for the entire university, not just athletics.
8. Finally, we had a rival school to make the move and package ourselves with.

SUPERBUNNY[/quote]

SDSU and NDSU, along with UNC also trid to convince the NCC to move as a conference to Division 1.