Frost Arena Atmosphere

[Coyote_Fan]

OK please don't use this as a USD bashing thread. I want an honest answer without bias please, is that possible?

The only time I have ever been to Frost Arena is during a State-U game. I don't know what the atmosphere is like during other games. As SDSU fans how would you compare the atmosphere during a State-U game to that of a State-Augie or State-Northern game. To take it even one step further how is the atmosphere currently during the SDSU-NDSU games. Please compare the general fan experience between these games.

I will say that the USD-SDSU game was by far the loudest and most intense game during it's time. I am talking basketball. The USD-Augie game just didn't hold nearly the same excitement level. It also only drew about half the fans. It seems like the difference in attendance between what USD drew for Augie and what SDSU drew for Augie was quite big. If I remember correctly the Augie game in Vermillion only drew about 4,000 fans where in Brookings that game drew upwards of 7-8K. Did your fans get as excited to play the Vikings. It seems like your attendance was quite good for that game. It also seems like the Northern Game drew well for you too.

For football the State-U game was better than the rest but some of our recent crowds have been close to that intensity as well. Football is the thing right now in Vermillion as it seems to be in Brookings.

I think what this is getting at, eventhough I didn't mean it to necessarily go this way, is that the USD-SDSU rivalry in basketball is probably more important to both schools as it is for football. Not that football wouldn't draw big crowds but USD and SDSU's basketball programs need the extra spark of the renewed rivalry. The overall attendance and excitement for mens basketball seems to be down at both places since SDSU left the NCC. In football I think the interest has increased in both places. The rivalry is just a benefit for two thriving football programs but is a darn near necessity in hoops.

[goon]

Re: Frost Arena Atmosphere

well, ive been going to most games at frost sense 2000, and in the early years, when augie was good, i think we hated them just a touch more. considering one year they beat us twice, but we got um back the 3 time in the conference tourny. basically i think it comes down to how good the team we are playing is. if northern is having a great year, it will be big for them and so on with augie and usd. you can see in the last year or so it seemed the augie game at frost was rather a shadow of its former self. as womens bball goes, when we played usd back in 2000, cwords were still good but not huge. once both teams got good and ranked and when the traitors transfered to usd. to each her own i guess. but what im getting at is the better the teams got the bigger and rowdier the crowds were also. plus any true state fan loves to show up to see them stick it to the U. i think with gettin into the mid con you will see the attendance numbers heading up and up and well, the way our women are playing i wouldnt be surprised if they get close to or higher then the mens attendance for awhile. When STATE and U dot play again i doubt it will be packed as it was when they were both solid D-2 teams but with time, im sure it will all be filled up and the waters of hatred running both ways just as it once was.

[JimmyJack]

Re: Frost Arena Atmosphere

Actually, I think you're misreading the interest. Personally, I wouldn't mind seeing the rivalry renewed. But I can tell you that around campus I hear about zero interest in the rivalry. It was, at times, an ugly rivalry and lacked the feeling of celebration of bigger rivalries that I have experienced (OU-Texas, Purdue-Indiana). It's nothing against USD, but I think fans here feel that SDSU doesn't "need" that kind of stuff anymore. I like our rivalry with NDSU. We're joining the Mid Con and teams like Oral Roberts and UMKC have rivalry potential. If we get in the Gateway, UNI has great rivalry potential. I just don't sense many people (in Brookings anyway... alums may be different) who care much for renewing the USD rivalry. What we need is a stable, conference slate of games. We're getting that next year.

As for the atmosphere in Frost. Last year's NDSU men's game was raucous. The women's games are all fun. The crowd scared the daylights out of USC, for instance.

[EQguy]

Re: Frost Arena Atmosphere

I've seen games in Frost since the mid 80's. My opinion is that the loudest, most intense games have always been the ones that were the most meaningful, regardless of opponent or crowd size.

The USD and Augie games were always pretty big, but I will say, as a student, I hated Augie much more than USD.

Since we made the transition I have been to some of the best, most intense games that I have seen. Last year the Men's game against Denver was awesome and one of the most fun games I had been to and I think that there may have been 2k at the game. The two games against NDSU were also both great and intense from a fan standpoint and there was just over 4k at both. And this years USC women's game was absolutely amazing. Even the fans in the reserved seats were off their feet. I usually sit in the bleachers on the south side and had to stand most of the game. Again, 4k.

I have been one that has been dead set against playing USD again. I just never cared for the hate from the fans. I'm sure that USD fans can say that there was hate from us too. That is just my perspective.

[West_River_Jack]

Re: Frost Arena Atmosphere

Having moved to the Black Hills in 1990 I have been at Frost Arena for games on only one or two occasions in the last 16 years so my perspective is very historical.  

The most exciting game atmosphere I ever experienced in Frost Arena was against a non-conference opponent, California State University - Hayward.  It was a playoff game which does add significantly to its importance.

There were a few years when the SDSU-Augie rivalry really heated up.  The two teams were about equivalent in ability.  I actually thought it was even more hate-filled than the SDSU-USD rivalry.  It had the added fuel of public (white trash) vs. private (aristocratic snob) perception.  At that time Augie still played its home games in the Sioux Falls arena and had virtually no security or administrative presence at games.  Therefore, it was anything goes as far as crowd taunting, name calling, signs, and worse.

I think that the general layout of Frost Arena is a genuine enabler of intense fan response.  With a big crowd the floor is surrounded on all sides by fans all the way from courtside to the back wall of the balcony level.  I have been to only a couple of basketball games at the Dakota Dome, both SDSU-USD games, and the intensity was there but diluted out in the tremendous volume (cubic feet, not sound volume) of the dome.

The bottom line, if you rely only on the value of a specific rival for the intensity of the crowd and the ability to sell tickets the rest of the season is moot.  You might as well cancel the program.

[West_River_Jack]

Re: Frost Arena Atmosphere

If the folks at USD want to improve the basketball game atmosphere at the Dakota Dome they might look at what the University of Idaho did at the Kibbie Dome to modify it into the Cowan Spectrum each basketball season.

http://www.uiathletics.com/default.asp?PageID=190

[SUPERBUNNY]

Re: Frost Arena Atmosphere

I have been going to games since I was a kid at the barn, so I've pretty much been at all the big games over the last 30+ years.

For a regular season game, there were very few games that compared to a USD-SDSU or Augie-SDSU game. I always considered them equal rivals and felt the rivalry was just as intense for both games. Augie was big because they were from Sioux Falls (biggest SD city), they were our closest conference opponent geographically, and we always looked at them as the "rich kids" at the private school (fair or not). The rivalry with USD was big because, well it was USD, the other large NCC school in SD. The games were always a blast no matter how good or bad the opponent was.

I agree with others that have said that the playoff games were wild. I agree, they were just awesome and I can't wait for games like that in conference tournaments again. Frost Arena was such an intimidating place to schools like Cal-Hayward, Fort Hayes State, and Metro because they didn't play in front of good home crowds. You could see it in their eyes when they ran out and were greeted by 9,000 fans on their feet yelling for the Jacks. There were other NCC games that neared that excitement level level when the conference title was on the line late in the season.

The Augie/USD/SDSU rivalry has always been bigger in basketball at SDSU because our biggest successes have been in basketball. That is true for Augie and USD as well. The North Dakota schools and UNC were pretty dominant in football.

AS FOR THE NDSU/SDSU RIVALRY GOES, IF YOU WERE IN THE STANDS FOR THE GAMES LAST YEAR, IT HAD ALL THE MAKINGS OF A CLASSIC GAME AGAINST A TRUE RIVAL WITHOUT ALL OF THE "OUT OF LINE" STUFF THAT HAD LONG BEEN TRADEMARKS OF THE IN-STATE RIVALRIES. I thought it was awesome and a very welcome change! I'm guessing NDSU fans felt about the same way.

The women's games have been awesome and they are getting good crowds when you consider they are playing on Mondays and Wednesdays. The atmosphere in Frost Arena will be much better next year under a conference schedule and will only get better as the men's team improves!

SUPERBUNNY

[mango4]

Re: Frost Arena Atmosphere

The NDSU game last year was pretty intense. Probably the most intense basketball game I've been to until this year when USC came to town. I think for the most part the student section does a very good job of being loud and intense. There are some times when they section is only half filled but we still get the gym rocking.

[SUPERBUNNY]

Re: Frost Arena Atmosphere

I had a conversation with Todd Johnson yesterday. He was a stud forward for UND back in the mid-90's and we talked about some of the good ol' days of the NCC.

He commented that they loved coming to Frost Arena and that it was the best atmosphere they played in every year, even better than the NDSU games!

I thought that was pretty telling. Obviously, they have improved their facilities in Grand Forks since then with Ralph and Betty. When I told him about all of the upgrades to Frost Arena, he was amazed!

We have a great atmosphere and are very lucky. USD has a tough environment to hold a basketball game (not a bash just a fact). Augie's biggest mistake was leaving the Arena in Sioux Falls. Now there is so much competition for the sports dollar in Sioux Falls that it is really hard for Augie to get a great crowd.

SUPERBUNNY

[SUPERBUNNY]

Re: Frost Arena Atmosphere

The NDSU game last year was pretty intense. Probably the most intense basketball game I've been to until this year when USC came to town. I think for the most part the student section does a very good job of being loud and intense. There are some times when they section is only half filled but we still get the gym rocking.

The students that come to the game all do a great job of "bringing the noise". Bluehat and the gang are doing a great job and the "fanaddicts" will continue to grow.

I must say that I have been suprised by how small the student numbers have been this year. Hopefully that will change with conference games next year and as the men improve. My bet is that it will get better every year!

SUPERBUNNY

[mango4]

Re: Frost Arena Atmosphere

The students that come to the game all do a great job of "bringing the noise". Bluehat and the gang are doing a great job and the "fanaddicts" will continue to grow.

I must say that I have been suprised by how small the student numbers have been this year. Hopefully that will change with conference games next year and as the men improve. My bet is that it will get better every year!

SUPERBUNNY

I think we need to come up with a new name instead of fanaddicts. We need something original and that has to do with SDSU. Like Illinois has the Orange Krush and Duke has the Cameron Crazies

[Coyote_Fan]

Re: Frost Arena Atmosphere

I am kind of surprised that many SDSU fans feel that Augie is just as big of a rival. I have only been following the Coyotes since 1991 and in all those years I can't remember even one single year where Augie finished ahead of USD in the standings. I would think that USD was always the bigger threat to beating SDSU at least in the last couple of decades therefor you would think SDSU would get more excited about those games.

[89rabbit]

Re: Frost Arena Atmosphere

Coyote_Fan,

The reason you are surprised is that you see the world through rose colored/USD glasses.  Yes to USD the U vs. State game was the end all and be all.  It was the same way for Augie, and even Northern felt that way.  To each of you the SDSU games were the most important.  You all loved to "Hate State".  Nothing wrong with that, in a way it is kind of flattering, but at the end of the day each one of your games with us was just 1 of many important games to us.  

It might surprise you to know that when looking at the all time record crowds at Frost Arena USD's highest finish is #3.

Feb. 11, 1989 – 9,456 vs. Augustana College SDSU 90, Aug 77
Mar. 16, 1985 – 9,339 vs. Cal State-Hayward (NCAA playoffs) SDSU 62, CSH 58
Jan. 26, 1985 – 9,157 vs. University of South Dakota SDSU 62, USD 56

Of those three games my favorite was the Cal State-Hayward game not only because it was a playoff game but also because for the most part all 9,339 fans were Jackrabbit fans.

That is what I am interested in seeing.  I want Coughlin-Alumni and Frost Arena full of Jackrabbit fans.  This year's Hobo Day game vs. UC-Davis is an example of what I am talking about 15,248 and the vast majority were yelling for the yellow and blue.

Don't get me wrong I like rivalries and the USD games were always important but so were many of our other games we played.

Something for you to think about .  .  . SDSU finished #1 in the nation in D-II attendance several times.  Why didn't USD finish #2 those same years?  The answer is our support went beyond the State vs. U game.  That support is one of the reasons that we are lukewarm about starting things back up, we don't need it and we are not sure we want it because the rivalry had gotten out of control and ugly towards the end.


Go State!  

[EQguy]

Re: Frost Arena Atmosphere

That is some top notch analysis 89!

[CatchEmAll]

Re: Frost Arena Atmosphere

Something for you to think about .  .  . SDSU finished #1 in the nation in D-II attendance several times.  Why didn't USD finish #2 those same years?  The answer is our support went beyond the State vs. U game.  That support is one of the reasons that we are lukewarm about starting things back up, we don't need it and we are not sure we want it because the rivalry had gotten out of control and ugly towards the end.

That's some good stuff 89.

Let me play hater for a second though, that was back in the DII days, there's no way State can pull in average attendance numbers like that again without USD.  One big game makes the year ;D