Why USD CAN go DI.

[sdman]

Re: Why USD CAN go DI.

I sure hope that both UND and USD can get into the Mid Cont if they go D1. I think it would be very good for the state to have these intense rivalries going again.
I read the history of the Mid Cont on their web site and they have had a ton of change in that conference over the years. Teams come and go in that conference in quick succession compared to most conferences. So despite what some conference officials state about expansion their history shows that they open to expansion every few years. I would predict that UND and USD will be in the Mid Continent in at most five years - if they end up going D1.

[jackmd]

Re: Why USD CAN go DI.

I sure hope that both UND and USD can get into the Mid Cont if they go D1.  I think it would be very good for the state to have these intense rivalries going again.
I read the history of the Mid Cont on their web site and they have had a ton of change in that conference over the years.  Teams come and go in that conference in quick succession compared to most conferences.  So despite what some conference officials state about expansion their history shows that they open to expansion every few years.  I would predict that UND and USD will be in the Mid Continent in at most five years - if they end up going D1.

Yeah, we tried to explain that to most of the NCC in the past. Then, they said forget it and we said, no problem. Now, we have a plenty bright future in the DI ranks and the last thing we need to do is worry about past rivalries.

That said, games against USD and UND would definitely get fans to Brookings. USD has a way to go on the FB field in order to compete at the DIAA level but so did we. UND looks ready on that front but has questions elsewhere. The greater problem is a financial one at both institutions right now. I don't think there quite in position to make the best effort at DI but I don't think they feel they can sit on their laurels were being anonymous is more and more likely.

Bring on the yotes and the sioux, just ask their fans to grow-up to the DI level before they come.

[thebluehatman]

Re: Why USD CAN go DI.

You are going to have to convince the Mid Con and the Gateway conference they need you first. The Mid Con is happy where they are at and do not see any growth in the near future, so it could easily be 5-10 years before the Mid Con would even consider USD or UND. Good luck schools, you are going to need it ;D ;D ;D ;D.

[filbert]

Re: Why USD CAN go DI.

You are going to have to convince the Mid Con and the Gateway conference they need you first. The Mid Con is happy where they are at and do not see any growth in the near future, so it could easily be 5-10 years before the Mid Con would even consider USD or UND. Good luck schools, you are going to need it ;D ;D ;D ;D.

The elephant in the living room for USD and UND is that Conferences don't add members just for the heck of it. Adding a conference member means sharing out NCAA tournament income. Conferences don't want to do that unless they have a really, really good reason.

Just because your name is the University of (insert state name)--or (insert state name) State University for that matter, does not necessarily qualify as a really, really good reason.

The Mid-Con basically was forced to add IPFW, NDSU, and SDSU by the departure of Chicago State and Valparaiso. They don't have to add UND or USD, unless something happens.

The Big Sky didn't really have to add UNC but wanted access to the Colorado Front Range (i.e. Denver) market. They don't have to add UND or USD, unless something happens, and probably won't anyway, because they seem obsessed with trying to break into larger markets of the western U.S. I could see an argument that the Big Sky would go after St. Cloud State before they'd seriously look at USD or UND. This is more of an indictment of the market tunnel vision of the Big Sky than a commentary on the potential of any of those three schools, by the way.

The Horizon just added Valparaiso. The don't have to add UND or USD, unless something happens, and probably wouldn't anyway, because they're focused on the more urban areas of the eastern Midwest rather than looking westward.

There is no way on God's Green Earth that the Missouri Valley Conference would consider UND or USD for membership any sooner than ten years after they begin the D-I reclass process--that's what, 2018? If the Valley needs to add schools, they will take established, successful D-I programs from the Horizon or the Mid-Con first.

If the right things happen, USD and UND will find a conference. However, the Upper Midwest is not like the Southeast U.S. where there are a multitude of D-I conferences shuffling members and markets. There's only one conference in the Upper Midwest which is a real option, and that conference, the Mid-Con, just added three members to go to a 10-member league.

There's currently ZERO incentive for the Mid-Continent Conference to add either USD or UND in the foreseeable future, regardless of whether the State Universitites would back or would oppose the addition. Would conference members prefer 1/10th of a share of the NCAA Tournament money, or 1/12 of a share?

Now, five to ten years from now, the environment will probably change (but might not--we just don't know). But SDSU fans can tell USD fans from experience that even two years in the D-I Independent Wilderness is a long, long, long, long time. USD if they announce their exploratory year for 2007-08 is looking at a loooooong time as an independent, unless they get seriously lucky.

[West_River_Jack]

Re: Why USD CAN go DI.

I sure hope that both UND and USD can get into the Mid Cont if they go D1.  I think it would be very good for the state to have these intense rivalries going again.
I read the history of the Mid Cont on their web site and they have had a ton of change in that conference over the years.  Teams come and go in that conference in quick succession compared to most conferences.  So despite what some conference officials state about expansion their history shows that they open to expansion every few years.  I would predict that UND and USD will be in the Mid Continent in at most five years - if they end up going D1.

You must be cautious when you look at the comings and goings of teams into and out of the Mid-Con.  The Mid-Con is a very young conference in only its twenty-fifth year.  By contrast, the Big Sky is in its forty-fourth year and the Missouri Valley Conference is almost the granddaddy of them all as it starts its second century.  The Mid-Con has been searching for a geographical identity as well as a member profile identity.  Over twenty-five years and approximately that many members those who didn't fit used the Mid-Con as a stepping stone to other places and those that did fit have stayed.  The conference may be maturing to the point where there will be fewer teams leaving and thus, fewer opportunities to be invited into the membership.

It was a big risk for SDSU to make the jump to Division 1.  Some say that we got very lucky when Chicago State and Valpo left almost simultaneously and opened a market for two teams from the Dakotas.  I tend to agree with those who say we got lucky.  Yes, there are teams which might leave the Mid-Con.  Centenary does not fit in very well with the other member profiles.  Oakland is on the geographic fringe.  Some of the ORU fans in Tulsa are restless with the Mid-Con.  But what happens if only one school leaves.  Utah Valley State wants in and would be a good geographic fit with Southern Utah.  UTPA wants in.  They would be a better fit with Mexico City but probably not really much worse than Grand Forks with regard to the Mid-Con.

The dominoes have to fall properly, like they did for the xDSU's, in order to get the coveted invitation.  If USD decides to reclassify I wish them the best.  I used to live in Vermillion (only for a short time and only during the summer -- a lot of summers ago) and I like the community.  I have a deep appreciation for the State of South Dakota and since USD is a part of that I wish well for the Coyotes.  Even in the old NCC days I cheered for the Coyotes when they played out-of-state teams.  (Plus, it was a lot more fun to beat up on the Coyotes when they thought they were good!)  My daughter chose to attend USD and even though she will graduate before the reclassification process starts I still have respect for her choices.  I'm not a USD hater like some of the posters on this board.  I don't want to see USD do something which is totally wrong for the University.  I hope they are taking this decision and its consequences very seriously.

[Walrus]

Re: Why USD CAN go DI.

[quote author=sdman link=1150320172/240#240 date=1162417477]  I have a deep appreciation for the State of South Dakota and since USD is a part of that I wish well for the Coyotes.  Even in the old NCC days I cheered for the Coyotes when they played out-of-state teams.......... I'm not a USD hater like some of the posters on this board.  I don't want to see USD do something which is totally wrong for the University.  I hope they are taking this decision and its consequences very seriously.

I absolutely agree.

[jbents]

Re: Why USD CAN go DI.

According to Fellingham in the YPD, "I don't have any inside with (the Mid-Con)," he said. "But logically, the best number of schools for them is 12. Then they can go with east-west or north-south divisions. To be able to have those four schools along I-29 with traditional rivalries already - it would make perfect sense from a business standpoint."

Where did they get this guy? The best number of schools is 12. Of the mid-major conferences can anyone tell me if any have 12 schools playing BB?

[mitchellrabbit]

Re: Why USD CAN go DI.

According to Fellingham in the YPD, "I don't have any inside with (the Mid-Con)," he said. "But logically, the best number of schools for them is 12. Then they can go with east-west or north-south divisions. To be able to have those four schools along I-29 with traditional rivalries already - it would make perfect sense from a business standpoint."

Where did they get this guy? The best number of schools is 12. Of the mid-major conferences can anyone tell me if any have 12 schools playing BB?

the colonial athletic conference and the mid american conference are the only mid majors with 12 teams.

[jacksfaninne]

Re: Why USD CAN go DI.

For someone with no inside with the Mid-Con, he sure likes to speak for them.

[jackmd]

Re: Why USD CAN go DI.

I'm not a USD hater like some of the posters on this board.  I don't want to see USD do something which is totally wrong for the University.  I hope they are taking this decision and its consequences very seriously.

Not sure anyone truly "hates" USD. There may be some who dislike the poor taste shown by their fans during the rivalry years but I think everyone here understands the importance of a strong liberal arts university in the state system.

Many of us were offended by the stance the administration at USD took when we declared for the move to DI. That made a few people a little more than angry but I don't think there is hatred.

I'll admit, it offends me a bit that many USD supporters remain arrogant enough to think they can now waltz into DI and be welcomed with open arms when only 4 short years ago they denounced the decisions made at SDSU. That does get to me.

[sdsurulz08]

Re: Why USD CAN go DI.

[quote author=West-River_Jack link=1150320172/240#244 date=1162433808]I'm not a USD hater like some of the posters on this board.  I don't want to see USD do something which is totally wrong for the University.  I hope they are taking this decision and its consequences very seriously.

Not sure anyone truly "hates" USD.  There may be some who dislike the poor taste shown by their fans during the rivalry years but I think everyone here understands the importance of a strong liberal arts university in the state system.

Many of us were offended by the stance the administration at USD took when we declared for the move to DI.  That made a few people a little more than angry but I don't think there is hatred.  

I'll admit, it offends me a bit that many USD supporters remain arrogant enough to think they can now waltz into DI and be welcomed with open arms when only 4 short years ago they denounced the decisions made at SDSU.  That does get to me.[/quote]

ya usd has no idea how bad they will struggle in their first few years of d1. i'm sure after the first two seasons they will be rethinking the jump to d1. I do think in the long run it will be good for them to move up so we can play them again, and beat them some more.

[bincitysioux]

Re: Why USD CAN go DI.

Many of us were offended by the stance the administration at USD took when we declared for the move to DI.  That made a few people a little more than angry but I don't think there is hatred.  

I'm somewhat a neutral observer to the SDSU-USD rivalry. But it was my understanding that when UNC, NDSU, and SDSU tried to convince the NCC to move to DI as a whole that USD actually was the 4th vote in favor of this proposal.

[jackmd]

Re: Why USD CAN go DI.

[quote author=jackmd link=1150320172/240#249 date=1162482633]
Many of us were offended by the stance the administration at USD took when we declared for the move to DI.  That made a few people a little more than angry but I don't think there is hatred.  

I'm somewhat a neutral observer to the SDSU-USD rivalry.  But it was my understanding that when UNC, NDSU, and SDSU tried to convince the NCC to move to DI as a whole that USD actually was the 4th vote in favor of this proposal.  [/quote]

I can't speak with confidence as to whether that was the case or not. However, when we did declare our move up USD immediately took the stance that it was a mistake and done out of selfishness and with recklessness. At least thats the impression I had.

[Crashola]

Re: Why USD CAN go DI.

I'm a dyed-in-the-wool USD hater.  I was raised that way, so I can't help it.  The Yotes fans who think they'll have an easy time getting into the Gateway are delusional.  

However, the one rare Yote fan with a hint of intellect made a pretty good argument that the Mid-Con would look favorably upon a UND-USD request to join the conference.  Adding all four Dakota schools to the conference would give it some long-needed stability.  The Dakota schools played together for decades and it took major developments in DII to split them up.  As silly as it seems, the four newbies could concievably become the core of the Mid-Con.  

That said, I personally could care less if we ever play them again.  

[thebluehatman]

Re: Why USD CAN go DI.

I'm happy with the SDSU-USD hockey game over playing them in other sports just cuz we usually end up giving them a serious beat down. And don't have to go play in the DakotaDump.