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  • Winners and losers

    With the announcement that the Northern Sun would take in what is left of the NCC it got me thinking who were the winners and losers in all the shake ups to college athletics from a regional stand point.

    Prior to the shake up it seemed that you had SDSU, USD, and Augie (to a lesser degree), followed closely by the University of Sioux Falls, and then the rest of the schools, from a media attention and casual fan interest stand point.  USF was a fast mover and was getting a disproportional amount of attention (considering their NAIA affiliation), in my opinion, but it was understandable.  After all when the "Big Schools" in the area are playing teams like Barton College (D-II Men's Basketball Champions this season), then why not get excited when USF plays York College.  To the causal fans that hasn't heard of either and has no idea of either’s capabilities is there really any difference?  With the shake ups I think the key word is separation.

    Clearly (and not surprisingly I might add) I feel that SDSU is the biggest winner so far.  We have created separation between us and every other school in the state.  I feel that we have established our rightful place as leader of higher education within the state of South Dakota.  The causal fan is aware of the majority of our opponents and knows there is a difference between Indiana, Barton, and York.  Our acceptance into the Mid-Con and Gateway make the transformation complete.  With our recent run in the WNIT, we are the big school in South Dakota.

    I think USD is also a winner in this process.  They are behind us (as they usually are) and may never catch up.  But they too have separated themselves from the pack so to speak and given time will establish themselves as the other big school in South Dakota.

    Augie is a winner in my opinion also.  For even though they have lost their status as piers of SDSU and USD in the public eye, they were in danger of that before the shake ups occurred.  By limping along as an also ran in the NCC they were starting to become a non-factor and were the most in danger by USF's emergence.  They have now moved to the Northern Sun, a league that they can compete in.  The Sioux Falls media is already dubbing the NSIC with the old title they had bestowed on the NCC "One of the best conferences in D-II".  Now if they can compete they are a story again and have created separation from USF

    The big loser in all of this is the University of Sioux Falls.  They were on the verge or had already taken away the title of Sioux Falls' school.  Too many was the time that I was home visiting the folks that the Argus' lead story was about the "Big Game" between USF and Northwestern.  It seemed to me that USF was (and maybe still is) setting its sights on moving up to D-II and becoming officially one of the "Big Boys".  Unfortunately for the short run there is no place for them to go with a full NSIC and a defunct NCC and the bar has been raised to achieve "Big Boy" status.  USF benefited the most from fuzzy lines between the classes.

    Northern State which played in relative obscurity in the NSIC will now get noticed because of Augie and the NSIC’s new status as the premier D-II conference in the upper Mid-west.  Thus they are a winner.  

    Dakota State (which I hesitate to bring up as I am not sure that they deserve to have a separate mention, but had been making some noise about moving to the G-PAC or D-II) which may have had designs on moving up to D-II or a least a better NAIA conference may also be hurt a little with not much room for movement in the current scheme of things.  

    Then of course you have the rest and really they remain just the rest.  At least that is my take.

    Bottom line I think the public and the media have a much clearer picture about the separation between the different levels of college athletics (NCAA D-I, D-II, and NAIA) and I think that is a good thing.  There is a difference between SDSU and USF (please feel free to change the names of the school in this example to suit your needs . . . I/E USD and Northern State etc.), and people need to understand and appreciate that.  I am not saying one if better then the others (ok we all know that I think SDSU is the best of the bunch), as each has its unique purpose and place, and each does a fine job, but there are differences that people should be aware of and I think the shake up has done a nice job of reestablishing those differences.

    I offer this up as an opinion and would like to hear what others think.  I have started this thread in the College Athletics section of the board knowing full well that it may end up as smack but my hope is we can have a discussion without getting too smacky.  What do you guys and gals think?  Please share.


    Go State!  

  • #2
    Re: Winners and losers

    I think 89's analysis is correct.

    When I think of conference affiliation for USD a few years down the road, I hope the Coyotes find conferences other than Gateway and the Mid-Con.  I think it is beneficial for both SDSU and USD to continue to have separation (like Penn State and Penn; Ohio State and Ohio; Iowa and Iowa State).  Lots of different teams visiting the state will generate even more fan interest.  It may also result in better competition between the two schools if and when they compete against one another.  The old days of tossing dead animals is best left in the past and conference separation may help keep it in the past.

    EDIT:  from the "duh" category...took out Kansas and Kansas State.  Typing too fast, thinking too slowly.  Thanks 89 for the correction.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Winners and losers

      Keeping up the Moderator-fest . . .

      I think the main losers won't be colleges at all, but the Sioux Falls minor league pro/semipro teams. One of the reasons why Sioux Falls has been such a good minor league market is that there has been virtually no major college competition. With SDSU (and soon USD) that market changes in a fundamental way. The Stampede and the Canaries will probably see the least impact, as neither really competes for the same sports fans as the colleges. But I think if either (or both of) the Jackrabbits or Coyotes men's basketball teams make a meaningful run towards March Madness, you'll see some of the casual sports fans turn from the Skyforce to back the local college team--especially in that magical First Time for South Dakota.
      "I think we'll be OK"

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Winners and losers

        I am just a plebe , so just let me say that the analysis of the current situation by you three are excellent. The forward progress of SDSU will continue to snowball year after year. I look for the next couple of years to be even more exciting than the past year, as to milestones and changing perspectives.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Winners and losers

          Originally posted by filbert
          Keeping up the Moderator-fest . . .

          I think the main losers won't be colleges at all, but the Sioux Falls minor league pro/semipro teams.  One of the reasons why Sioux Falls has been such a good minor league market is that there has been virtually no major college competition.  With SDSU (and soon USD) that market changes in a fundamental way.  The Stampede and the Canaries will probably see the least impact, as neither really competes for the same sports fans as the colleges.  But I think if either (or both of) the Jackrabbits or Coyotes men's basketball teams make a meaningful run towards March Madness, you'll see some of the casual sports fans turn from the Skyforce to back the local college team--especially in that magical First Time for South Dakota.
          I wish you were correct, but I think your vastly underestimating the hardcore blue collar following that these minor league teams have. I think there is a market to tap into in Sioux Falls, but don't think it's neccesarily in the stands at the Sioux Falls Minor League games. Will they come out of curiosity if the game is in Sioux Falls, maybe? Will they drive to Brookings? I highly doubt it. I think there is lower hanging fruit than converting the Sioux Falls Minor League Market. I also wouldn't underestimate the following that the University of Sioux Falls has. They have a lot of money and bright people at the top who have big aspirations. I know these comments are a bit of generalization just like the other posts in this thread, but for those who do live in the Sioux Falls area they have a better grasp on the reality of the situation. Iv'e posted a number of times about how we need to convert this market, but it's not as easy as it appears.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Winners and losers

            Originally posted by JACKGUYII
            [quote author=filbert link=1175618827/0#2 date=1175627767]Keeping up the Moderator-fest . . .

            I think the main losers won't be colleges at all, but the Sioux Falls minor league pro/semipro teams. One of the reasons why Sioux Falls has been such a good minor league market is that there has been virtually no major college competition. With SDSU (and soon USD) that market changes in a fundamental way. The Stampede and the Canaries will probably see the least impact, as neither really competes for the same sports fans as the colleges. But I think if either (or both of) the Jackrabbits or Coyotes men's basketball teams make a meaningful run towards March Madness, you'll see some of the casual sports fans turn from the Skyforce to back the local college team--especially in that magical First Time for South Dakota.
            I wish you were correct, but I think your vastly underestimating the hardcore blue collar following that these minor league teams have. I think there is a market to tap into in Sioux Falls, but don't think it's neccesarily in the stands at the Sioux Falls Minor League games. Will they come out of curiosity if the game is in Sioux Falls, maybe? Will they drive to Brookings? I highly doubt it. I think there is lower hanging fruit than converting the Sioux Falls Minor League Market. I also wouldn't underestimate the following that the University of Sioux Falls has. They have a lot of money and bright people at the top who have big aspirations. I know these comments are a bit of generalization just like the other posts in this thread, but for those who do live in the Sioux Falls area they have a better grasp on the reality of the situation. Iv'e posted a number of times about how we need to convert this market, but it's not as easy as it appears.
            [/quote]
            I don't so much underestimate them as I think that they've basically got the market slice that they're going to get. As SDSU (and USD) move fully into D-I and especially as they start having some success, it will become trendier to follow the local "big college" teams. My take is that most of the smaller colleges will maintain their slices of the market they've already got. But the minor league teams are, in the final analysis, just that--minor league. Eventually there will come the perception that SDSU and USD are playing in the "major leagues" of college athletics (i.e. D-I).

            This won't happen overnight, but I suspect that ten years from now, a significant segment who now casually follows the Skyforce will be casually following the Jacks and/or the Coyotes--in addition to or instead of the Skyforce.

            It would also not be a complete shock if some time in the next ten years the D-League decided that the Skyforce (for instance) would be more profitable in some other city than Sioux Falls. Professional franchises move, based on business decisions, owner's whims, or some combination of the two; colleges don't.
            "I think we'll be OK"

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Winners and losers

              Originally posted by filbert
              [quote author=JACKGUYII link=1175618827/0#4 date=1175631750][quote author=filbert link=1175618827/0#2 date=1175627767]Keeping up the Moderator-fest . . .

              I think the main losers won't be colleges at all, but the Sioux Falls minor league pro/semipro teams.  One of the reasons why Sioux Falls has been such a good minor league market is that there has been virtually no major college competition.  With SDSU (and soon USD) that market changes in a fundamental way.  The Stampede and the Canaries will probably see the least impact, as neither really competes for the same sports fans as the colleges.  But I think if either (or both of) the Jackrabbits or Coyotes men's basketball teams make a meaningful run towards March Madness, you'll see some of the casual sports fans turn from the Skyforce to back the local college team--especially in that magical First Time for South Dakota.
              I wish you were correct, but I think your vastly underestimating the hardcore blue collar following that these minor league teams have. I think there is a market to tap into in Sioux Falls, but don't think it's neccesarily in the stands at the Sioux Falls Minor League games. Will they come out of curiosity if the game is in Sioux Falls, maybe? Will they drive to Brookings? I highly doubt it. I think there is lower hanging fruit than converting the Sioux Falls Minor League Market. I also wouldn't underestimate the following that the University of Sioux Falls has. They have a lot of money and bright people at the top who have big aspirations. I know these comments are a bit of generalization just like the other posts in this thread, but for those who do live in the Sioux Falls area they have a better grasp on the reality of the situation. Iv'e posted a number of times about how we need to convert this market, but it's not as easy as it appears.    
              [/quote]
              I don't so much underestimate them as I think that they've basically got the market slice that they're going to get.  As SDSU (and USD) move fully into D-I and especially as they start having some success, it will become trendier to follow the local "big college" teams.  My take is that most of the smaller colleges will maintain their slices of the market they've already got.  But the minor league teams are, in the final analysis, just that--minor league.  Eventually there will come the perception that SDSU and USD are playing in the "major leagues" of college athletics (i.e. D-I).

              This won't happen overnight, but I suspect that ten years from now, a significant segment who now casually follows the Skyforce will be casually following the Jacks and/or the Coyotes--in addition to or instead of the Skyforce.

              It would also not be a complete shock if some time in the next ten years the D-League decided that the Skyforce (for instance) would be more profitable in some other city than Sioux Falls.  Professional franchises move, based on business decisions, owner's whims, or some combination of the two; colleges don't.[/quote]

              You may be correct that the local Sioux Falls colleges have maxed out their potential following. I think a bigger challenge issue is the number of fans in South Dakota that have a loyality towards a BCS School such as Nebraska, Iowa and Minnesota and view the conferences the State U's have gotten into as Minor League (Mid-Cont and Gateway). The IAA or FCS is still something new and many fans still don't understand or respect the obvious talent differences and unfortunately we get lumped in with the rest of those schools in Divisions below the BCS. That perception conversion will take time. The D League may go elsewhere, but it appears for the time being they needed solid locally owned franchises like the Skyforce more than the other way around.

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