UND AD on the Edge

[IowaBison]

UND just released the findings of its consultant's report which states it will need $4 million/year in additional funding. It was proposed that $1.8 million (45%) of that increase should come from students-which would raise student fees for athletics to over $200/year.

Their athletic director looked very uncomfortable last night on the news. Apparently he just lost control on the radio.

(To think that SDSU has had success without raising student fees. At NDSU they account for 10% of the increased funding-300k/3 million.)

[IowaBison]

Re: UND AD on the Edge

And now there is interest in him leaving:

http://siouxsports.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=8574

(much of the displeasure is due to filling the women's hockey vacancy with the asst. from SCSU-a team whose only conference wins were against UND-who went 0-fer)

[propar80]

Re: UND AD on the Edge

http://www.grandforksherald.com/arti...p;section=News

Interesting article.  I wonder how bloody that ulcer is getting in the UND/USD athletic department??

Go Jacks!!

[SD-STATE]

Re: UND AD on the Edge

Not sure if this was mentioned in those links that were posted, I wasn't able to open them from my computer for some reason, so forgive me if this is old news.

I saw in the Argus today that UND's athletic budget would projected to be almost 20 million by the end of their 5 year reclassification. I assume that would have to do with their hockey programs? I don't believe ours or NDSU's is even close to that yet. That has to be a pretty disturbing figure for UND. I still don't rule out the possibility that UND or USD end up choosing to back out of their proposed reclassification. I'm not trying to smack or be negative, just saying that it wouldn't surprise me any.

[SDSUcks]

Re: UND AD on the Edge

Neither school is going to back out of of their commitment to go D1. UND and USD for that matter might have to make some tough choices but once the journey has begun there is really no turning back. It's like getting cable TV for the first time. It seems expensive at first but the excitement of the new thing will allow for it to be affordable in some way.

[JACKGUYII]

Re: UND AD on the Edge

Neither school is going to back out of of their commitment to go D1.  UND and USD for that matter might have to make some tough choices but once the journey has begun there is really no turning back.  It's like getting cable TV for the first time.  It seems expensive at first but the excitement of the new thing will allow for it to be affordable in some way.  

This is more like buying the cable company!

[1stRowFANatic]

Re: UND AD on the Edge

We don't have cable, tried and thought it wasn't worth the money.

[SD-STATE]

Re: UND AD on the Edge

Neither school is going to back out of of their commitment to go D1.  UND and USD for that matter might have to make some tough choices but once the journey has begun there is really no turning back.  It's like getting cable TV for the first time.  It seems expensive at first but the excitement of the new thing will allow for it to be affordable in some way.  

Actually, your exploratory year is there so you don't have to paint yourself into a corner. Nothing is etched in stone, though you are probably right, both schools have pretty well burned their d2 bridges. Although, as of right now their DI commitment is only on paper and to a certain extent publicly.

Nobody would fault und and usd if they realized they were in way over their heads and decided d2 purgatory would be at least more affordable then a DI purgatory. The "new excitement" feeling might wear off when your school is constantly facing a budget crisis and your independent status becomes discouraging. When people from usd look over the fence and see the green grass they need to remember that "it isn't always greener on the other side". Alot of things had to happen for the xDSU's to get where they are right now. A lot of hard work and some luck. I may be off base here, but the impression I get from yourself and a few other USD supporters is that, yes, you expect a rough first few years, but sooner or later everything will work out just like it did for the xDSU's. However, it could be more difficult and for a lot longer than you think. For myself I believe two successful DI instiutions are better for this state than one successful and one struggling DI university. Pressure from two prestigious universities on the state government for a larger slice of state monies is going to harder to ignore. Although of everything I've said, getting more state money for anything educational in this state is probably the least likely to happen.

Just some thoughts of mine.

[Haldersham]

Re: UND AD on the Edge

I believe UND made one right decision and that is they hired Carr & Associates. This is a very thorough consulting firm who does not pull any punches and is very honest. SDSU and NDSU both know where they are going in terms of expenses and SDSU has followed this plan. I don't know if the copy of the SDSU report is still on file at Hilton Briggs Library, but I spent a about 4 hours at the copy machine and made my own copy that I have since looked at from time to time. Carr reviewed every program, every facility, everything period. They did not shy away from recommendations and they did not forget to put a estimated price tag on each recommendation. I think without this plan, most AD would make mistakes in terms of what is a priority.
 I am not surprised with the disclosure that UND will be at 20 million at the end of the transition period. It would be very interesting to see what they prepared for UND. Believe me Carr did not pull that figure out of the air. They got maybe 400 pages of data to back up their conclusion.

UND's internal study was posted somewhere and I downloaded it last summer. The internal report was a real joke as it was more of a survey of what the community thought than it was analysis of their current financial situation and what needed to be done in making the move.


If USD consultant tells them what they want to hear, it will be a big mistake. That consultant needs to be as blunt as Carr and lay it out and quantify what its all about.

[Jack4Life]

Re: UND AD on the Edge

As I was sitting in the hot tub having a few cold ones tonight, I got thinking about this thread. What if the scenario presented by Carr to UND did not paint a very good picture and they went through their exploratory year and decided to go back to DII, or if USD decided after their exploratory year to go back to DII, it would be very difficult for either institution to make this transition alone. It probably won't happen, but I am sure both schools will want to be supporting each other in following through with the move. I think it would be a real tough road to go by yourself.

[JackJD]

Re: UND AD on the Edge

Maybe USD will have to make a loan to UND.

[filbert]

Re: UND AD on the Edge

As I was sitting in the hot tub having a few cold ones tonight, I got thinking about this thread. What if the scenario presented by Carr to UND did not paint a very good picture and they went through their exploratory year and decided to go back to DII, or if USD decided after their exploratory year to go back to DII, it would be very difficult for either institution to make this transition alone. It probably won't happen, but I am sure both schools will want to be supporting each other in following through with the move. I think it would be a real tough road to go by yourself.

With the implosion of the NCC, USD's and UND's D-II bridges are now thoroughly burned. I think it would be quite impossible for them to cut football scholarships and drop down into the Northern Sun.--their other option would be to wander the wilderness as a full-football-scholarship D-II independent.

Their alumni and boosters simply won't allow that while SDSU and NDSU remain in D-I. They're committed now to D-I for the next decade, regardless of the planning which may or may not have occurred. The D-II door has closed on them, it's move forward or bust for the U's now.

[2002jack]

Re: UND AD on the Edge

I believe UND made one right decision and that is they hired Carr & Associates. This is a very thorough consulting firm who does not pull any punches and is very honest. SDSU and NDSU both know where they are going in terms of expenses and SDSU has followed this plan. I don't know if the copy of the SDSU report is still on file at Hilton Briggs Library, but I spent a about 4 hours at the copy machine and made my own copy that I have since looked at from time to time. Carr reviewed every program, every facility, everything period. They did not shy away from recommendations and they did not forget to put a estimated price tag on each recommendation. I think without this plan, most AD would make mistakes in terms of what is  a priority.
 I am not surprised with the disclosure that UND will be at 20 million at the end of the transition period. It would be very interesting to see what they prepared for UND. Believe me Carr did not pull that figure out of the air. They got maybe 400 pages of data to back up their conclusion.

UND's internal study was posted somewhere and I downloaded it last summer. The internal report was a real joke as it was more of a survey of what the community thought than it was analysis of their current financial situation and what needed to be done in making the move.


If USD consultant tells them what they want to hear, it will be a big mistake. That consultant needs to be as blunt as Carr and lay it out and quantify what its all about.

http://www3.sdstate.edu/ClassLibrary...ve_Summary.pdf

They still have the executive summary of the Carr report on the website. I recall that the whole process was very open. The public was able to attain basically any information that Carr gave the University. I believe all the documents can still be accessed at the library.

[Jack4Life]

Re: UND AD on the Edge

[quote author=Jack4Life link=1176400615/0#9 date=1176519674]As I was sitting in the hot tub having a few cold ones tonight, I got thinking about this thread. What if the scenario presented by Carr to UND did not paint a very good picture and they went through their exploratory year and decided to go back to DII, or if USD decided after their exploratory year to go back to DII, it would be very difficult for either institution to make this transition alone. It probably won't happen, but I am sure both schools will want to be supporting each other in following through with the move. I think it would be a real tough road to go by yourself.

With the implosion of the NCC, USD's and UND's D-II bridges are now thoroughly burned.  I think it would be quite impossible for them to cut football scholarships and drop down into the Northern Sun.--their other option would be to wander the wilderness as a full-football-scholarship D-II independent.

Their alumni and boosters simply won't allow that while SDSU and NDSU remain in D-I.  They're committed now to D-I for the next decade, regardless of the planning which may or may not have occurred.  The D-II door has closed on them, it's move forward or bust for the U's now.[/quote]

I do agree that turning back is probably impossible. We were fortunate to have the close alliance w/ NDSU and I think both schools were comfortable with each other. I hope the UxD's have the same realtionships with each other as we did w/ NDSU. I feel fortunate to have gone through our first few years with what appears to be very good planning and vision by the administration. A lot of that work was completed before the announcement of the move was even made. I think no matter what people are being told, the planning (or lack of planning) will show in the first 3-5 years.

[2002jack]

Re: UND AD on the Edge

[quote author=filbert link=1176400615/0#11 date=1176573962][quote author=Jack4Life link=1176400615/0#9 date=1176519674]As I was sitting in the hot tub having a few cold ones tonight, I got thinking about this thread. What if the scenario presented by Carr to UND did not paint a very good picture and they went through their exploratory year and decided to go back to DII, or if USD decided after their exploratory year to go back to DII, it would be very difficult for either institution to make this transition alone. It probably won't happen, but I am sure both schools will want to be supporting each other in following through with the move. I think it would be a real tough road to go by yourself.

With the implosion of the NCC, USD's and UND's D-II bridges are now thoroughly burned.  I think it would be quite impossible for them to cut football scholarships and drop down into the Northern Sun.--their other option would be to wander the wilderness as a full-football-scholarship D-II independent.

Their alumni and boosters simply won't allow that while SDSU and NDSU remain in D-I.  They're committed now to D-I for the next decade, regardless of the planning which may or may not have occurred.  The D-II door has closed on them, it's move forward or bust for the U's now.[/quote]

I do agree that turning back is probably impossible. We were fortunate to have the close alliance w/ NDSU and I think both schools were comfortable with each other. I hope the UxD's have the same realtionships with each other as we did w/ NDSU. I feel fortunate to have gone through our first few years with what appears to be very good planning and vision by the administration. A lot of that work was completed before the announcement of the move was even made. I think no matter what people are being told, the planning (or lack of planning) will show in the first 3-5 years.[/quote]


Does anybody know where USD's DI study can be found?