UND looking for a conference home

[89rabbit]

http://www.grandforksherald.com/arti...341f80697d2d1d

NCAA RECLASSIFICATION: Quick fix for finding opponents

By Brad Schlossman, Herald Staff Writer
Published Sunday, July 01, 2007

UND athletic director Tom Buning said he's aiming to clear one major hurdle in the NCAA Division I move in 2009 - finding a conference.

Until then, Buning hopes UND has found a temporary solution.

While the school waits and monitors talks on expansion in the Summit League and Big Sky Conference, Buning said he has arranged an alliance with other transitioning and independent NCAA Division I schools to help alleviate scheduling problems when UND makes the jump next fall.

UND would play a group of six to 14 schools in several sports, but the focus is on men's and women's basketball. Buning said this arrangement would guarantee games during other teams' conference seasons.

“It's a safety measure,” said Buning, who discussed the alliance with others at athletic directors' meetings last month. “We agreed that we would be available. It will help during those months like January, when basketball teams are all playing in their conference. They're not going to want to play us at that time.”

Buning mentioned Houston Baptist, Seattle University and South Dakota as ideal teams to play because they are on the same transition schedule to Division I.

“There will be a fair amount of travel, but we will be able to get games here in Grand Forks,” Buning said.


Finding a league

The main task for UND remains to find a permanent solution.

Carr Sports and Associates, a consulting firm hired by the school to assist in the transition process, said in a report that the two viable conference options are the Summit League and the Big Sky Conference.

The Summit League would be the best fit for UND, because of the sports it offers and because North Dakota State and South Dakota State were just admitted, which would make travel easier.

“They've said that they are always open to expansion and always willing to discus it,” Buning said. “They are slowly going on the record of saying ‘Hey, this looks like a good opportunity in the works (to add UND and South Dakota).' I think that's as much as we're going to get out of them right now.”

The Summit League doesn't offer football, but UND has a good chance of being admitted to the football-only Great West Football Conference once it becomes a Division I school in 2008.  .  .  .  (read more)


Go State!  

[sdman]

Re: UND looking for a conference home

After looking at the summit league's history a reasonable person could predict that usd and und are virtual locks for this conference (eventually). I know a lot of usd people thought we were dumb for going d1 and gave us a lot of trouble. Despite that I hope both schools get in. Good for fan interest and will save us some travel expense money. I hope they get in sooner rather than later.

[NightHawk78]

Re: UND looking for a conference home

I have difficulty seeing how the UxDs are a lock to join The Summit League. There are only two ways that they are going to join in the forseeable future:

1) Current schools leave the conference, creating opening for the UxDs. BUT:If our conference (that has a real nice ring to it! ) has too much more turnover, we'll lose the auto-bid to the Big Dance (continuity of membership requirements) and will essentially be back in independent purgatory.

2) The Summit League chooses to expand to 12 schools. There are, however, other schools that would fit in as well as the UxDs. Utah Valley State, in particular, may be a front-runner, especially since NDSU and SDSU may "owe" a favor to Southern Utah after we left the GWFC for the Gateway.

If the UxDs join a conference in the near future, it would likely be the Big Sky Conference (a move likely made to placate the Montana schools). BTW, I am 100% supportive of that move......

[89rabbit]

Re: UND looking for a conference home

I thought Tony had a nice post on this subject over on the Bison board.


Tony wrote:

 . . . unlike what the article stated, UND is not inching towards conference membership. As Bison fans know, landing conferences is a two-step deal. First, a conference has to get into a position where they need to add teams. Second, they have to deem your school to be more attractive than the other options. UND has absolutely no control over the first thing and very little over the second because, as we found, geography is the number 1 consideration for likely conferences. The only thing they are inching towards is full DI membership. All they can do is try to be as successful - on the field and with the fund-raising. . . .

Go State!  

[JackJD]

Re: UND looking for a conference home

I agree with 89: Tony has this one pegged.

[Jacks-D1]

Re: UND looking for a conference home

I think USD and UND are locks for the Summit. They can go to 12 members and have 2 divisions. Also I think USD and UND would be more stable members down the road, much more stable than say Centenary, particularly with SDSU and NDSU already in. I would also like to see them in the Summit because it would be much better for fan interest and cost savings and it would renew the rivalries. It would benefit all four schools.

[Haldersham]

Re: UND looking for a conference home

I think USD and UND are locks for the Summit.  They can go to 12 members and have 2 divisions.  Also I think USD and UND would be more stable members down the road, much more stable than say Centenary, particularly with SDSU and NDSU already in.  I would also like to see them in the Summit because it would be much better for fan interest and cost savings and it would renew the rivalries.  It would benefit all four schools.

Its what I think of as wishful South Dakota thinking. We in Dakotas have for a long time wished this and that and this and that never happened. Why? Because the world is much larger than the Dakotas and people out in various regions of the country hardly know that the Dakota exist. Remove Mount Rushmore, Corn Palace and Medora, and you will have total ignorance. Its the Summit Presidents who make the decisions on membership admittance. Have you ever thought about the fact that all four Dakota schools would require at least two or more trips for the Dakota for some of current members of the Summit? This is just one of many issues that the presidents have to consider for A USD and UND ARE A LOCK. Sending out brochures as UND is doing might help to a certain degree, but if I were an AD from IPFWU, I would give them a glance and then send the document towards the circular file. What people in South Dakota think in this matter is a small consideration of the total admittance for USD and UND. I think what Jacks D-1 is advocating is the resurrection of the NCC. Not likely to happen. A current membership of 10 members seems to work well, as we know from the NCC.

Even with a split into divisions, the travel costs are not going to equal out. SUU comes to my mind and Cedar City is a long ways from Brookings, Vermillion, Fargo and Grand Forks. Lots of issue and I say wait until a few years before the certain lock occurs.

USD and UND will soon find out that they are not a lock for membership.

[NightHawk78]

Re: UND looking for a conference home

I think USD and UND are locks for the Summit. They can go to 12 members and have 2 divisions. Also I think USD and UND would be more stable members down the road, much more stable than say Centenary, particularly with SDSU and NDSU already in. I would also like to see them in the Summit because it would be much better for fan interest and cost savings and it would renew the rivalries. It would benefit all four schools.

......... : : :...........

Let's see:

1) Did you talk to Pres. Chicoine or Comissioner Douple about the imminent invite that USD and UND are going to receive from the Summit?
2) I have trouble seeing how they would be a slam dunk. UND is quickly becoming the Oakland Raiders of the NCAA with its lawsuit over the mascot and USD is entering D-I with an athletic department that is overall weaker than SDSU and NDSU when they moved up.
2a) If the Summit chooses to add teams, SDSU and NDSU are NOT going to be the driving factors in the process because they are the new schools. There are several schools that would probably be as viable of candidates as USD and UND.
3) Why would the Summit add teams in markets (SF and Fargo) in which they already get close to the maximum possible media coverage?
4) SDSU should play USD during the 'Yotes transition as many times as USD played us: ZERO

[filbert]

Re: UND looking for a conference home

The observation that the Summit is the best possible option for USD and UND (accurate, IMHO) does not mean, or even imply that USD and UND are the best possible options for the Summit League.

Unless there are significant new departures from the Summit League, the ONLY way our league considers adding USD and UND in the near future is if SDSU and NDSU absolutely pound on the table and demand it. It is not obvious to me that either school is inclined to do that. There are in fact very vocal segments of the SDSU and NDSU fan base who (to put it mildly) are disinclined to support USD/UND membership in the Summit League.

And, NDSU and SDSU are only two of ten Summit League members. Their support (assuming it comes) of USD and UND is not enough. Among the other current Summit League members--it's far from obvious why the Indiana schools, Oral Roberts, Centenary, or Oakland would prefer USD or UND. My guess is that Utah Valley State (as a travel partner for Southern Utah) and someone like SIU-Edwardsville would be strong competitors if the Summit League starts looking for new members.

Regarding future Summit expansion (versus replacement of any future departing members)--I'm not sure where the idea came from that twelve members is the optimum size for a basketball conference. I don't think it's at all obvious that a twelve-team basketball league is the ideal size. I think you can make an argument that ten is the optimum number. (The Missouri Valley for instance seems quite stable and content with that number). Ten member leagues allow a 18-game full home-and-home schedule. Larger conferences tend to lose round-robin, home-and-home schedules, and smaller leagues have problems filling non-conference schedules, and have serious vulnerabilities from a membership/automatic qualification point of view. There's also the issue of dividing up the NCAA men's basketball tournament payout twelve ways vs. ten ways--new conference members need to have the potential to offset real costs to the league.

I think the reality of the situation is that there has to be additional changes in conference memberships around the country before USD and UND get close looks from the Summit League or the Big Sky (just as NDSU and SDSU had to see changes before things got serious for them).

The path to conference membership may be as fortuitous for USD and UND as it turned out to be for SDSU and NDSU. On the other hand, it may not.

Having said that, I do think that, long-term, addition of USD and UND to the Summit League would be a good move for the league. (Speaking of the long-term--i.e. 5 to 10 years out.) But it's certainly not a "lock" at least in the next 3-5 years. (Again with the caveat "unless there are other conference membership changes between now and then.&quot

[Jacks-D1]

Re: UND looking for a conference home

Personally as a fan I would much rather have all 4 Dakota schools in the same conference. I can only see benefits to all 4 schools from being in the same conference. The only arguments I hear that it would not benefit all 4 schools is "I hate USD and their fans and want to see them suffer".

[89rabbit]

Re: UND looking for a conference home

Personally as a fan I would much rather have all 4 Dakota schools in the same conference.  I can only see benefits to all 4 schools from being in the same conference.  The only arguments I hear that it would not benefit all 4 schools is "I hate USD and their fans and want to see them suffer".

This may or may not be true, but you are missing the point. The point is that SDSU and NDSU do not get to make the decision on if USD and UND get into the Summit League (we play a role as 2 of 10 total votes). So you have to ask yourself . . . How does USD and UND benefit SDSU, NDSU, Centenary, IPFW, IUPUI, UMKC, Oakland, ORU, Southern Utah, and Western Illinois?

You have to ask, is expansion in the best interest of the 10. If the answer is no well then it doesn't matter. If the answer is yes then you have to look at all the schools that apply and figure out who would be the best fit for the 10 current members not just the two Dakota schools.

Currently I see no pressing need for the Summit League to expand.


Go State!

[jackmd]

Re: UND looking for a conference home

Personally as a fan I would much rather have all 4 Dakota schools in the same conference.  I can only see benefits to all 4 schools from being in the same conference.  The only arguments I hear that it would not benefit all 4 schools is "I hate USD and their fans and want to see them suffer".

Its a little selfish to only see benefit if all 4 Dakota teams are in the same conference.  Lets think about the institutions who have been willing to take a chance on adding us to their conference trusting that we will pour our hearts into making it one of the top mid-major conferences in the nation.  I think Filbert sums things up very nicely.

Some people still see things with the "old NCC" goggles.  Those were the DII days and are now long gone.

[FargoBison]

Re: UND looking for a conference home

I think both UND and USD will get a look because they are strong schools and I am not at all sold on the fact that Douple is done adding schools to the Summit. That said, UVSC, SIU-E, and OKCU will all be candidates as well and all have a case to get in over the UXD's.

UND will also have to worry about it's basketball program, it's not even decent for DII and in the world of DI having a solid or up and coming basketball program can get your foot in the door. USD on the other hand is completely unproven and has some major facility work to do, out of the 4 schools they will have the most work to do right out of the gate. Both schools will also have to overcome being located in difficult to reach locations and even in being partners GF to Vermillion will not be an easy trek to sell. I don't think either has any clue about just how hard going DI is, we made it look to easy and I think they may be falling into a bit of trap. Honestly, I would be happy if they got in the Summit but I agree with everyone else in saying it won't be the decision of the XDSU's in them getting in. They'll have to prove their worth and hope for some luck just like we did.

[89rabbit]

Re: UND looking for a conference home

From Jeff Kolpack's (Fargo Forum writter) blog

http://www.areavoices.com/bisonmedia/

UND's conference ticket

UND and NDSU are back in the same league, at least for a few days so to speak. The Sioux, as expected, joined the Great West Football Conference for the 2008 season -- the same year NDSU will begin play in the Gateway Football Conference.

It's obviously a good move, the only move, for the Sioux. So how will they find a league for their other sports?

It looks to be an uphill battle. The Summit League appears to be somewhat settled and the Big Sky Conference is in no mood to come east. Plus, UND may have some competition to get into a league that NDSU and SDSU didn't have. Southern Illinois-Edwardsville is making the D-I move and Utah Valley (Southern Utah travel partner?) will be D-I eligible in a couple of years.

But one thing we've learned on these conference searches is leagues change, especially the mid-majors. Stable one day, looking for members the next. It looked bleak for NDSU after the Big Sky rejected it. But it wasn't long before the Mid-Con (now the Summit) saw two members leave in Chicago State and Valparaiso and NDSU suddenly had hope again to shed independent status.  .  .  .  (read more)


Go State!