Wichita State Leaving MVC

[goon]

Re: Wichita State Leaving MVC

The collective history will need to be edited going forward without Creighton and WSU. Drake was good in the 1960s. It may be foolish to attribute qualities to MVC based on their long history as there has been more change in the past 5 years than 50 years before that. There is still some good basketball there, but the next 5 years could be less glorious with the Shockers ready to bolt.

Seems like most are going on reputation then the current state of the program. ISUr had a great year. no doubt. but look at the bottom of the conference. not sure what the draw is. With out Creighton and WSU, the conference is a shell of what it once was. Also I think to many are taking away how great it is for SDSU having the summit tourney in SF. If its held anywhere else, do we win any of those? maybe 1? 2 if we are lucky? I don't think we should stay in the summit for that only reason, but unless the conference is losing everybody or the rest of the league tanks and we are 30th RPI league, it wouldnt benefit SDSU to leave. Unless MVC gets multiple teams in the tourney and wins a few rounds and the league money adds millions extra into our budget, I just don't see us going anywhere.

[Jacks-02]

Re: Wichita State Leaving MVC

I think it is foolish to look at a few years of results and say the two are equal. MVC schools collectively have a history of much more success, even without WSU.

The fact remains NDSU and SDSU are the only schools that have recently come close to competing on a level of MVC schools consistently. I won't begin to put the Summit on the same level until I see some more depth and high level results.

Again, you are looking at past history rather than looking forward.

SDSU/NDSU/UND/USD/IPFW/UNO have all moved to DI within the last 15 years and I would say are all pretty much on an upward trajectory as they continue to increase athletic budgets and improve facilities.

Pretty much all of the MVC have been members of the conference for 20+ years, and some as long as 60 or 70 years.

Other than WIU and UNI, none of the current members have made much noise in the tourney in the last decade.

As much love as people are giving ISU for nearly getting an at-large this season, it hasn't even made an appearance in the NCAA's since 97-98.

[Jacks-02]

Re: Wichita State Leaving MVC

Also, I know this doesn't drive the decision by any means, but the last two seasons the Summit has had a far better Women's RPI ranking as a league than the MVC has.

11 vs. 17 in 2016
16 vs. 21 in 2015
24 vs. 21 in 2014
20 vs. 19 in 2013

[91jack]

Re: Wichita State Leaving MVC

The Summit will pick up UND after next season and they were the top team in the Big Sky this season. They also would get the 4th highest(lowest) RPI in the Missouri Valley this season(UNI).
If WSU leaves(top RPI), Illinois State would will the league and make the tourney, I don't remember the 3rd best team in the Missouri Valley but UNI was 4th in RPI.
That would mean the Missouri Valley would lose 2 of their top 4 teams and the Summit would add the best Big Sky team and the 4th best Missouri Valley team. Since the Summit is hanging with the Missouri Valley now, it wouldn't even be close after the moves. ISU would only have one other team in the conference with a RPI below 180(or so).

[FargoBison]

Re: Wichita State Leaving MVC

Again, you are looking at past history rather than looking forward.

SDSU/NDSU/UND/USD/IPFW/UNO have all moved to DI within the last 15 years and I would say are all pretty much on an upward trajectory as they continue to increase athletic budgets and improve facilities.

Pretty much all of the MVC have been members of the conference for 20+ years, and some as long as 60 or 70 years.

Other than WIU and UNI, none of the current members have made much noise in the tourney in the last decade.

As much love as people are giving ISU for nearly getting an at-large this season, it hasn't even made an appearance in the NCAA's since 97-98.

History can be a pretty good guide. I'm looking at everything when I say what I say.

I take an honest look at things, no rose colored glasses. Take WSU out of the MVC and still the top teams in the Summit are in the lower tier of the MVC when it comes to budget and attendance. Every school in that league wants to be great at MBB, it is the marquee sport for every MVC school. In Summit we have three schools where basketball isn't even the marquee sport on campus in its own season.

Drake is the doormat of the MVC and 8-9 years ago they were ranked in the top 25.

I would love for the Summit to be on the level of the MVC but the league has an awful long ways to go to get where we have that consistent level of support, depth and success across the league. A few good seasons doesn't mean that we have arrived.

[thumper_76]

Re: Wichita State Leaving MVC

Also, I know this doesn't drive the decision by any means, but the last two seasons the Summit has had a far better Women's RPI ranking as a league than the MVC has.

11 vs. 17 in 2016
16 vs. 21 in 2015
24 vs. 21 in 2014
20 vs. 19 in 2013

And yet the MVC got two bids this year. Glad we keep harping on the RPI though.

History can be a pretty good guide. I'm looking at everything when I say what I say.

I take an honest look at things, no rose colored glasses. Take WSU out of the MVC and still the top teams in the Summit are in the lower tier of the MVC when it comes to budget and attendance. Every school in that league wants to be great at MBB, it is the marquee sport for every MVC school. In Summit we have three schools where basketball isn't even the marquee sport on campus in its own season.

Drake is the doormat of the MVC and 8-9 years ago they were ranked in the top 25.

I would love for the Summit to be on the level of the MVC but the league has an awful long ways to go to get where we have that consistent level of support, depth and success across the league. A few good seasons doesn't mean that we have arrived.

This. Plus we keep hammering on our RPI being better but forget we got dump trucked by UNI.



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[filbert]

Re: Wichita State Leaving MVC

And yet the MVC got two bids this year.

That's because the NCAA committee lies when it says it doesn't look at conference affiliation when awarding bids, and because the Valley has a better "name" than the Summit.

The point is: does the "name" or the actual on-court performance matter more?

For almost everyone, including the schools themselves, the name does indeed matter more.

Which is the exact reason why WSU is talking to the AAC, of course.

[2002jack]

Wichita State Leaving MVC

Quite frankly SDSU/NDSU are a much bigger deal than any...I mean any of the schools in the MVC...


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[thumper_76]

Re: Wichita State Leaving MVC

Now that I've thought about this more the more I like the idea of going to the MVC if we get invited with NDSU. It kind of reminds me of when we went from the Great West to the MVFC/Gateway. Obviously there are plenty of differences like the Great West not having an auto bid to the playoffs and wasn't near a stable as what the Summit is now, but overall it wasn't a horrible league and seemed to be getting better with the xDSUs getting better. The MVFC really was a one trick pony with UNI and a team or two getting good once in a while. With this analogy I'm just looking at it from a competition standpoint. We could have said let's stay Great West because Poly and SUU were comparable to anything the MVFC had to offer outside of UNI and decided to focus on growing that league and possibly surpassing the MVFC at some point. However by joining the league with more history to it of success in the playoffs when we (xDSUs) got better to the point we forced the MVFC to get better even, it became the unquestioned top conference and toughest top to bottom because it forced these other programs that had been basically on cruise control to improve themselves or be forever irrelevant, and due to their prior investment they were able to do that. I feel that the MVC would be similar. Right now if they lose WSU, then it's basically UNI and ISUr and a bunch of also rans. However if you add two schools like NDSU and SDSU to the mix who are pushing to keep rising and not be happy with the status quo, I don't think it's really too crazy to think that the league would be able to rise back to where it was. Is it really crazy at all to think that if SDSU and NDSU were in the right conference they could be as good as UNI? I don't think so, but I highly doubt it happens in the Summit. Realistically with the fan support at most of the Summit schools they are reaching their peak of investment to their programs. UNO has to compete directly with Creighton in their own city and UNL just down the road, they never will be a draw like the Dakota schools. IUPUI and IPFW are afterthoughts at best where they are, and Denver is a hockey school 100%. Oral Roberts has nobody Show to their games, and WIU is incredibly strapped for cash. The honest truth is most of those schools aren't going to have the ceiling that the MVC schools have.


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[Kemo]

Re: Wichita State Leaving MVC

Now that I've thought about this more the more I like the idea of going to the MVC if we get invited with NDSU. It kind of reminds me of when we went from the Great West to the MVFC/Gateway. Obviously there are plenty of differences like the Great West not having an auto bid to the playoffs and wasn't near a stable as what the Summit is now, but overall it wasn't a horrible league and seemed to be getting better with the xDSUs getting better. The MVFC really was a one trick pony with UNI and a team or two getting good once in a while. With this analogy I'm just looking at it from a competition standpoint. We could have said let's stay Great West because Poly and SUU were comparable to anything the MVFC had to offer outside of UNI and decided to focus on growing that league and possibly surpassing the MVFC at some point. However by joining the league with more history to it of success in the playoffs when we (xDSUs) got better to the point we forced the MVFC to get better even, it became the unquestioned top conference and toughest top to bottom because it forced these other programs that had been basically on cruise control to improve themselves or be forever irrelevant, and due to their prior investment they were able to do that. I feel that the MVC would be similar. Right now if they lose WSU, then it's basically UNI and ISUr and a bunch of also rans. However if you add two schools like NDSU and SDSU to the mix who are pushing to keep rising and not be happy with the status quo, I don't think it's really too crazy to think that the league would be able to rise back to where it was. Is it really crazy at all to think that if SDSU and NDSU were in the right conference they could be as good as UNI? I don't think so, but I highly doubt it happens in the Summit. Realistically with the fan support at most of the Summit schools they are reaching their peak of investment to their programs. UNO has to compete directly with Creighton in their own city and UNL just down the road, they never will be a draw like the Dakota schools. IUPUI and IPFW are afterthoughts at best where they are, and Denver is a hockey school 100%. Oral Roberts has nobody Show to their games, and WIU is incredibly strapped for cash. The honest truth is most of those schools aren't going to have the ceiling that the MVC schools have.


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I think there is quite a difference between going from Great West to the MVFC as opposed to going from the Summit League to the MVC, but some very good points.

I'm not really pro-Summit or pro MVC, as I see advantages to both, but I am pro-NDSU partnership. The xDSU's are significantly stronger together, particularly as a package deal in terms of travel partners, rivalry, competitiveness, and the desire to continually improve their standing in college athletics. I would hope any conference affiliation talks would involve discussions between both schools Presidents/ADs.

[rabidrabbit]

Re: Wichita State Leaving MVC

I'd like to see a football schools conference (MVFC) and the remaining non-football conference. Let those privates figure out how to remain relevant. The other good choice would be to strip UNI and maybe ISU r into Summit. SDSU and USB have made South Dakota better by making the Summit tourney a destination event in March in Sioux Falls. Getting South Dakota as a destination in sports is a huge deal.

[thumper_76]

Re: Wichita State Leaving MVC

My guess is if SDSU and NDSU were both offered spots in the MVC together the only reason they don't jump on it is because the state doesn't allow it somehow because it would destroy the Summit after their little darlings (UxDs) just got into it and for SDSU it would kill the SLT for Sioux Falls. I wouldn't be surprised with either result tbh.


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[BTownJack]

Re: Wichita State Leaving MVC

Can the state legislature stop a move to another conference? I can see it getting political if say NDSU & SDSU are invited to another conference and we can leave USD and UND behind...again. I sure hope they can't but I'm guessing they can if a group feels strongly enough about it.

And I'm still strongly convinced that if we get an invite, especially with NDSU to the MVC...we gone!

[Rabbit74]

Re: Wichita State Leaving MVC

My earlier comment on this was somewhat misinterpreted, I think, probably because I didn't express my sentiments as clearly as I could have. Some of SDSU Athletics biggest and most loyal financial supporters are also very strong Sioux Falls supporters who basically paved the way financially for the Summit League Tournament to come to Sioux Falls to the major benefit of the Jacks and of the City of Sioux Falls. I don't think SDSU can afford to disrespect that current and past support for what at best would be little more than a lateral move. I'm confident the support these individuals/businesses give far more than equals the difference in income we might receive from a possible second bid to the tournament. In addition, if we left, we would be basically turning the Sioux Falls market, excluding some very loyal alums, over to USD assuming they were not also invited. Again that is something I don't think we would want to consider.

Acceptance of a bid to a more highly respected conference would be a different issue but in reality for football there is no more highly respected conference at the FCS level and for basketball there are only 3-4 conferences (A10, West Coast, AAC and possibly the Mountain West) outside of the Big 6 (P5 + Big East) conferences that are significantly better than the summit and we aren't a good fit for any of those geographically. So, I think the Summit is where we belong and where we will stay for the foreseeable future.

[BTownJack]

Re: Wichita State Leaving MVC

My earlier comment on this was somewhat misinterpreted, I think, probably because I didn't express my sentiments as clearly as I could have. Some of SDSU Athletics biggest and most loyal financial supporters are also very strong Sioux Falls supporters who basically paved the way financially for the Summit League Tournament to come to Sioux Falls to the major benefit of the Jacks and of the City of Sioux Falls. I don't think SDSU can afford to disrespect that current and past support for what at best would be little more than a lateral move. I'm confident the support these individuals/businesses give far more than equals the difference in income we might receive from a possible second bid to the tournament. In addition, if we left, we would be basically turning the Sioux Falls market, excluding some very loyal alums, over to USD assuming they were not also invited. Again that is something I don't think we would want to consider.

Acceptance of a bid to a more highly respected conference would be a different issue but in reality for football there is no more highly respected conference at the FCS level and for basketball there are only 3-4 conferences (A10, West Coast, AAC and possibly the Mountain West) outside of the Big 6 (P5 + Big East) conferences that are significantly better than the summit and we aren't a good fit for any of those geographically. So, I think the Summit is where we belong and where we will stay for the foreseeable future.

You bring up a very good point but if the donors (Dana & Sanford) give their blessings...we gone!