Wichita State Leaving MVC

[Jacked_Up]

Re: Wichita State Leaving MVC

An invitation to join the Mo Valley for basketball would have to be very seriously considered. The opportunity to unify basketball and football in the same conference would be good for SDSU in the long run. It would be a plus if all the Dakota schools could make the move. There is no guarantee that the Summit League Tourney is going to remain in Sioux Falls long term. Even if it does, that's not a good reason enough to stay in the Summit. One of these years, the eastern contingent of Summit teams could leave and seriously wound the conference.

[FargoBison]

Re: Wichita State Leaving MVC

Can the state legislature stop a move to another conference? I can see it getting political if say NDSU & SDSU are invited to another conference and we can leave USD and UND behind...again. I sure hope they can't but I'm guessing they can if a group feels strongly enough about it.

And I'm still strongly convinced that if we get an invite, especially with NDSU to the MVC...we gone!

The ND state legislature stays out of athletics for the most part. There is a PR side of it but if NDSU got an invite and wanted to go, it wouldn't be a difficult sell.

[NorCalJack]

Re: Wichita State Leaving MVC

So just for the sake of throwing something out there. What if the SL invited Northern Colorado and we started a SL football conference. I think you need 6 to get a autobid. Then we could invite UNI, ISUr, and SIU to make it a 9 team conference.

[OldHare]

Re: Wichita State Leaving MVC

An invitation to join the Mo Valley for basketball would have to be very seriously considered. The opportunity to unify basketball and football in the same conference would be good for SDSU in the long run. It would be a plus if all the Dakota schools could make the move. There is no guarantee that the Summit League Tourney is going to remain in Sioux Falls long term. Even if it does, that's not a good reason enough to stay in the Summit. One of these years, the eastern contingent of Summit teams could leave and seriously wound the conference.

The MVC and MVFC are not the same conference from what I understood. The exit fee of $1 million from the Summit might make a few donors cough hard too. There is no guarantee that the MVC will be the destination conference for the mid majors in 5 years much the same the SLT could move out of Sioux Falls.

[goon]

Re: Wichita State Leaving MVC

So for discussion sake. What is the actual benefit of the MVC over the summit? like what are things they have that we don't? Do they have TV package or revenue sharing? Multi bid league with better payouts from multiple games? etc......

So what are the priorities for the school? obviously budget concerns are a big deal, but what is the goal? be in "good" or the best conference we can be in? getting teams into the NCAA tourney's? etc....

Just wondering if anyone has some inside knowledge or has some insight to these questions.

[JimmyJack]

Re: Wichita State Leaving MVC

MVC has the same streaming deal with ESPN3 that the Summit has. So I don't think there's any particular media advantage. The Valley thought it was adding the Chicago media market with the addition of Loyola, but they apparently weren't aware that nobody cares about Loyola in Chicago. So that was pretty dumb. They added a bad team that nobody watches.

Once you get past WSU and UNI and possibly Illinois State, there's nothing great about the competition in the Valley. Having the tourney in SF is a huge advantage as far as staying in the Summit.

I can't see any benefits. The Summit strikes me as a league on the way up. The MVC, if WSU leaves, is definitely on its way down.

[Jacks-02]

Re: Wichita State Leaving MVC

I just did some quick Google searches to figure out mileage to teams in the Summit vs. the MVC if WSU left and we replaced them.

Summit League Travel Distances
USD 115
NDSU 190
UNO 240
UND 266
WIU 549
ORU 616
DU 696
IPFW 783
IUPUI 793
Average = 472
# Flights = 5

Missouri Valley Travel Distances
Drake 334
UNI 351
MSU 582
Bradley 586
Loyola 622
ISUr 624
ISUb 764
SIU 766
Evansville 827
Average = 606
# Flights = 8

Our average distance increases by 134 miles and if you assume 500 miles as the threshold for flying vs. driving you get 8 flights for MVC against 5 for the Summit League.

Keep in mind that the extra travel is for all sports, not just men's basketball, so those flights are potentially multiplied several times over.

Also, unless NDSU or USD/UND got invited with us we would be giving up rivalries with several schools, which would likely hurt attendance.

Yes, the Missouri Valley Conference is a better basketball conference than the Summit League is.

However, I don't know that it is a better conference for SDSU.

[FargoBison]

Re: Wichita State Leaving MVC

So for discussion sake. What is the actual benefit of the MVC over the summit? like what are things they have that we don't? Do they have TV package or revenue sharing? Multi bid league with better payouts from multiple games? etc......

The MVC has a small TV deal with ESPN, I think their deal gives the league 4 ESPN2 games and 6 ESPNU games. They also get 8 regular season games on CBS Sports Network.

Their tournament title game is on CBS, semifinals are on CBS Sports Network and the first rounds are on Fox Sports regional networks. Of course the conference also has an ESPN3 deal as well.

The MVC media deal is worlds beyond what the Summit could ever dream of having.

[goon]

Re: Wichita State Leaving MVC

The MVC has a small TV deal with ESPN, I think their deal gives the league 4 ESPN2 games and 6 ESPNU games. They also get 8 regular season games on CBS Sports Network.

Their tournament title game is on CBS, semifinals are on CBS Sports Network and the first rounds are on Fox Sports regional networks. Of course the conference also has an ESPN3 deal as well.

The MVC media deal is worlds beyond what the Summit could ever dream of having.

Any idea what money that amounts too if any or is it more an exposure benefit?

[FargoBison]

Re: Wichita State Leaving MVC

Any idea what money that amounts too if any or is it more an exposure benefit?

Not much, it is more about exposure from what I gather. There isn't a lot of money in TV unless you are an FBS football conference.

[NorCalJack]

Re: Wichita State Leaving MVC

Well the real advantage is the NCAA basketball money that the MVC will get, which I think they will be $6.5 million this year and the Summit League will collect $1.75 million. So if there are 10 teams in a league then each team from the MVC will get $650K and Summit League will get $175K. The MVC money will decrease over time as the Wichita State deep run to the Final 4 gets paid out in full after next year.

With WSU leaving the MVC, eventually the MVC will be a 1 bid conference, which is the same as the Summit. There is a short term benefit of being in the MVC, but I am sure any new member will not get the full benefit of the money owed by the NCAA.

[Southeast]

Re: Wichita State Leaving MVC

How much will the networks pay to show MVC after five years without WSU providing name-brand publicity, a NCAA tournament presence and a big boost to strength of schedule/RPI etc? Does this sweetheart media deal just automatically renew forever or does the league actually have to continue to produce. Will they? It seems like a lot of people assume the MVC is a sure thing forever even though their top two teams bailed in just five short years.

[JackJD]

Re: Wichita State Leaving MVC

Can the state legislature stop a move to another conference? I can see it getting political if say NDSU & SDSU are invited to another conference and we can leave USD and UND behind...again. I sure hope they can't but I'm guessing they can if a group feels strongly enough about it.

And I'm still strongly convinced that if we get an invite, especially with NDSU to the MVC...we gone!

I don't think the Legislature has given any indication that it would intervene in a university's decision on athletics. When SDSU decided to move up to D1, there was an effort by one legislator -- an SDSU grad -- who tried to find support for legislative action to stop the move but he could not muster much interest. In recent years, the Legislature has not interferred in matters that the Board of Regents may be interested in. Now, that isn't to say the Legislature won't interfere -- I think that if the Legislature wanted to step in, it probably could but I just don't see that happening.

My guess is the Board of Regents may be a little more likely to step in or at least talk about it. The Regents imposed some rules on SDSU in the move to D1. They imposed fewer (or no similar) rules on USD after watching SDSU go through transition. But the Regents have to be a watchdog over its institutions.

Some thought-provoking comments in this thread. There was a time I thought a move to the MVC would be a no-brainer. Now, I'm not so sure. If the reason we were invited was because WSU left,...well, some good arguments advanced for staying the course and continuing to strengthen the Summit League.

[Nidaros]

Re: Wichita State Leaving MVC

After winning the College Division in 1963, I thought it would be a matter of time and SDSU would get an invite to the MVC. Sixty four years later, I am still waiting. Bottom line we are lucky to have the Summit. $6.4 million is not that big of a deal.

[thumper_76]

Wichita State Leaving MVC

How much will the networks pay to show MVC after five years without WSU providing name-brand publicity, a NCAA tournament presence and a big boost to strength of schedule/RPI etc? Does this sweetheart media deal just automatically renew forever or does the league actually have to continue to produce. Will they? It seems like a lot of people assume the MVC is a sure thing forever even though their top two teams bailed in just five short years.

The thing with this argument that rubs me the wrong way (it's a valid argument, don't get me wrong) is the assumption that SDSU and NDSU wouldn't be able to step up and fill the void left by WSU. Not saying that we would become a top 25 team with regular deep runs in the tournament, but to assume that if SDSU and NDSU went in together that they wouldn't step up like they have in every other instance where they moved to a more challenging situation and emerged as the top dogs is a bit of a defeatist attitude IMO.

Let's look at the two conferences sans the xDSUs and WSU not just from their performance of this year but include their potential for growth as well.

Continued:

MVC

UNI
SIU
ISUr
MSU
ISUb
Drake
Bradley
Evansville
Drake

Summit

USD
UND
Denver
UNO
IPFW
IUPUI
WIU
ORU

Now personally I would take UNI, ISUr over anyone from the Summit hands down. So side by side I take them over the UxDs since they are the two best programs outside of the xDSUs in the Summit. For the rest really you're going off of potential of the program IMO. Denver is probably the Summit school with the most potential after the UxDs. I still would rather have SIU over them since Denver is much more of a hockey school while SIU is a basketball school. Then you have UNO, who really is in an extremely tough spot to elevate themselves much more than they are considering they are in the same town as a Big East school and an hour away from the Huskers. Tough row for them to how when it comes to getting more support and getting to the level we hope the Summit can get to, which in this argument is the level the MVC has been, or at least close. So honestly I probably take MSU over them since they have better facilities and some history of drawing well and being a good program before. It just would take something really special for UNO to get a lot better than they are now I think, especially since they have a much better chance of becoming a draw for hockey in Omaha than to steal a bunch of fans away from the Huskers and Creighton. I think IUPUI and IPFW are in similar situations, really the rest of the teams from both conferences at the bottom are. I would probably take IPFW and the rest over the bottom of the MVC.

In the end I just feel that if we were to join the MVC we would have a better chance of raising it up to the level it was before than we do of raising the Summit to that level. Overall the Summit would be tougher to get to that point since you need to drag even more of an investment in their programs than we have now compared to MVC teams that at least have done it before, so it wouldn't be as tough a row to how with them. While I do agree that the Summit is pretty close to the MVC right now, the problem with that argument is that includes SDSU and NDSU in the Summit and the MVC without us. If you move those two programs to the MVC side of the equation the two conferences aren't close, at all. Meanwhile with the xDSUs in the Summit and not in the MVC the conferences are close or even. That should tell you what conference really is better. It's like if you compared the MVFC to the Big Sky, and then compared the MVFC to the Big Sky and moved EWU and Montana to the MVFC. The only reason there is even a comparison capable from the jump is that Montana and EWU have carried that conference. Take them out and the Big Sky is pretty weak. I feel the Summit to MVC comparison is similar in that aspect. You take out SDSU and NDSU, who have won the Summit for the past how many years, overall the Summit isn't much at all. The xDSUs have been the engines that have drove their conferences improvement, whether it's been in football or basketball. Add that engine for improvement to the MVC and some pretty special things could be possible.

However I do realize my argument is 100% based off of potential and best case scenarios. I just have a lot of confidence in our athletic department with what has been happening since the transition.




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