Wichita State Leaving MVC

[thumper_76]

Re: Wichita State Leaving MVC

A straight-up merger of the two leagues is probably more likely than my little fantasy scenario.

I can easily see the Valley inviting NDSU and SDSU though. Both have recent NCAA men's BB experience, and that's really all the Valley cares about.

They might also go raid the Horizon for another school or two. Oakland would probably be high on their list.

Honestly what I would see as more likely than both would be all the MVFC schools getting together and making a new conference. Honestly makes a ton of sense IMO. Let YSU be an affiliate member for football or boot them out, whichever you want, but look at the rest of the schools in the MVFC from a basketball perspective. Within those schools you have the top of both conferences in basketball, and really a solid as hell conference top to bottom IMHO.

UNI
ISUr
ISUb
MSU
SIU
WIU
NDSU
SDSU
UND
USD

Nice ten team conference right there.


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[Justwin]

Re: Wichita State Leaving MVC

What would be the advantage of joining the MVC? I'm sure there must be one but I'm not seeing it.

[NebraskaJack]

Re: Wichita State Leaving MVC

I think most of the Valley considers themselves at least one conference tier above the Summit. Short of a doomsday scenario none of them will be willing to "step down" to our level. They are looking for landing spots on the next tier up....not down. Does anyone really believe that UNI wants to be in a conference with the Dakota schools again? They left us behind years ago. The MVC schools will join a Summit only after every other scenario has been exhausted.

[thumper_76]

Re: Wichita State Leaving MVC

What would be the advantage of joining the MVC? I'm sure there must be one but I'm not seeing it.

Well the fact that the real truth is the majority of the league is better than the Summit, in the now and in the potential for the majority of the schools. Outside of the Dakota schools realistically who can you honestly believe will be a team that is willing to invest and has the fanbase to support the investment to become a top 50 team year in and year out, or at least with some regularity. The truth is those who invest the most money in their programs will do the best, and the MVC teams are far more invested in their programs than Summit teams.


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[2002jack]

Re: Wichita State Leaving MVC

Honestly what I would see as more likely than both would be all the MVFC schools getting together and making a new conference. Honestly makes a ton of sense IMO. Let YSU be an affiliate member for football or boot them out, whichever you want, but look at the rest of the schools in the MVFC from a basketball perspective. Within those schools you have the top of both conferences in basketball, and really a solid as hell conference top to bottom IMHO.

UNI
ISUr
ISUb
MSU
SIU
WIU
NDSU
SDSU
UND
USD

Nice ten team conference right there.


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This makes too much sense to happen.


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[Justwin]

Re: Wichita State Leaving MVC

Well the fact that the real truth is the majority of the league is better than the Summit, in the now and in the potential for the majority of the schools. Outside of the Dakota schools realistically who can you honestly believe will be a team that is willing to invest and has the fanbase to support the investment to become a top 50 team year in and year out, or at least with some regularity. The truth is those who invest the most money in their programs will do the best, and the MVC teams are far more invested in their programs than Summit teams.


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Well IMO they have 2 schools and if 1 of those leave the rest are pretty much summit leagueish? Yes they may invest more which means we would need to invest more....I'm just not sure where the gain is.

[thumper_76]

Re: Wichita State Leaving MVC

Well IMO they have 2 schools and if 1 of those leave the rest are pretty much summit leagueish? Yes they may invest more which means we would need to invest more....I'm just not sure where the gain is.

So what about ISUr? They realistically should have been selected as a at large this year. Plus UNI, and schools like SIU, MSU, and ISUb who have a history of being good programs with tourney appearances, wins, and even top 25 rankings. What single Summit school brings more than one tourney win to the table? Essentially the MVC is at its worst it's been in 25 years and the Summit/Gateway is at its best in that time and STILL is not at the level of the MVC. I'm not sold on going to the MVC at all, but to pretend that the Summit is on par with them now is a bit silly IMO.


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[FargoBison]

Re: Wichita State Leaving MVC

Well IMO they have 2 schools and if 1 of those leave the rest are pretty much summit leagueish? Yes they may invest more which means we would need to invest more....I'm just not sure where the gain is.

Every school in the MVC is the right hire away from being very good. UNI was a dumpster fire before they brought in McDermott for example.

SIU was the king of that league when they had Weber while WSU was just a middling MVC program, then WSU made two great hires and the rest is history.

If you look at the Summit and the MVC the main difference is that the MVC schools all have significantly more support and that is fact that isn't going to be changing anytime soon. IUPUI, IPFW and WIU are all very limited in what they can do and then we have a bunch of hockey schools. ORU also doesn't seem to have the support they used to.

Resources are huge, MVC teams can buy home games...They all charter flights, they do things that lead to success and consistent success. The MVC brand is also a much stronger brand, which helps in recruiting, hiring and scheduling.

[TK22867]

Re: Wichita State Leaving MVC

So what about ISUr? They realistically should have been selected as a at large this year. Plus UNI, and schools like SIU, MSU, and ISUb who have a history of being good programs with tourney appearances, wins, and even top 25 rankings. What single Summit school brings more than one tourney win to the table? Essentially the MVC is at its worst it's been in 25 years and the Summit/Gateway is at its best in that time and STILL is not at the level of the MVC. I'm not sold on going to the MVC at all, but to pretend that the Summit is on par with them now is a bit silly IMO.


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Exactly.

USD, a school that just won the regular season title, has a brand new basketball facility, and will be competitive for at least the next 2 years, just about lost (one could argue they did for a small time) their young head coach that had been there for three years to........Drake. That tells me all I need to know about the desirability of the MV. Craig Smith was willing to leave a pretty damn good thing for a more money at a middle tier (at best) Drake.

Yes, Illinois State didn't make the tourney, but they were one of the last 4 out. When has that happened to a Summit men's team?

If the MV comes calling, we need to take a hard look at it. We need to do what's best for SDSU long-term.......not the Summit League, Sioux Falls, or anyone else.

[NorCalJack]

Re: Wichita State Leaving MVC

Well the MVC makes a lot of money from the deep runs in the NCAA by WSU, Creighton and UNI in the last decade. Since Creighton is gone and WSU may be gone, that NCAA pool will shrink over time if the MVC can't sustain that success in the future. This is what is happening at the Horizon. The NCAA pays out based upon how a conference does over a 6 year period. When Butler made those NCAA championship appearances, the Horizon conference got a lot of money. But now that Butler is gone, the Horizon will be a one and done conference just like the Summit and Big Sky.

For the MVC they also make money off the CBS package for the conference tourney. The last time the MVC had to replace a team (Creighton), they went with a team from a big market area in Chicago and added Loyola. They had opportunities to bring in better basketball programs, but instead went with a school from a large market area, hoping that would expose the conference to more people. I would expect the MVC do this again. I think they will pull a team from the Horizon League. If you are in the Horizon League, you will know that the NCAA money from the tourney will dry up over time now that Butler is not in the conference. Therefore a move from the Horizon to the MVC would be attractive to a Horizon school. The MVC is a mix of public and private schools and when they replaced Creighton (Private) they replaced them with a private school in Loyola.

This time around they would lose WSU a Public school so they will probably add a public school from the Horizon in a large Metro area. The likely candidates would be

Cleveland St.
U of Milwaukee
Oakland (Detroit Area)
U of Illinois - Chicago

From that list I would guess they would want to add another school from Chicago in UoI-Chicago. They have a large enrollment of 27,000 and is located in the middle of the conference footprint. But I think any of the 4 I listed above would be given strong consideration for being added.

That would force the Horizon League to add another team. I think they come looking at the Summit League again and invite IPFW.

But having Wichita St. leave the MVC would have a trickle down effect on the Summit I feel.

[Bits]

Re: Wichita State Leaving MVC

Exactly.

USD, a school that just won the regular season title, has a brand new basketball facility, and will be competitive for at least the next 2 years, just about lost (one could argue they did for a small time) their young head coach that had been there for ONE YEAR to........Drake. That tells me all I need to know about the desirability of the MV. Craig Smith was willing to leave a pretty damn good thing for a more money at a middle tier (at best) Drake.

Yes, Illinois State didn't make the tourney, but they were one of the last 4 out. When has that happened to a Summit men's team?

If the MV comes calling, we need to take a hard look at it. We need to do what's best for SDSU long-term.......not the Summit League, Sioux Falls, or anyone else.

Agree. I would just add that probably what is best for SDSU long-term, is to stay tied to at least 1 Dakota school. My preference would be NDSU. I just about puked as I typed that.

[JackJD]

Re: Wichita State Leaving MVC

...USD, a school that just won the regular season title, has a brand new basketball facility, and will be competitive for at least the next 2 years, just about lost (one could argue they did for a small time) their young head coach that had been there for ONE YEAR to........Drake. That tells me all I need to know about the desirability of the MV. Craig Smith was willing to leave a pretty damn good thing for a more money at a middle tier (at best) Drake.

Yes, Illinois State didn't make the tourney, but they were one of the last 4 out. When has that happened to a Summit men's team?

If the MV comes calling, we need to take a hard look at it. We need to do what's best for SDSU long-term.......not the Summit League, Sioux Falls, or anyone else.

Coach Smith's first year at USD was the 2014-15 season. So this was his third year. It may be that TK's point is this: the 2016-17 was Smith's first successful season (20-plus wins; conference regular-season title). In any event, I think TK's view about having to take a hard look if the MVC came calling is probably correct. Our AD's roots are in the Valley. If the Valley came calling, I think there'd be some long, sleepless nights as the administration chewed over what to do.

The Summit appears stable and improving in stature (and fact). The Valley, because of the news/speculation about Wichita, appears to be less stable. If an invite from the Valley arrived in Justin Sell's mail, staying in the Summit would be a supportable decision. But I agree with TK: if the MVC came calling, we'd have to take a hard look at it.

I'd hate being an athletic director in these times. Most conferences have the potential to get knocked out of orbit and come apart on re-entry.

[TK22867]

Re: Wichita State Leaving MVC

Coach Smith's first year at USD was the 2014-15 season. So this was his third year. It may be that TK's point is this: the 2016-17 was Smith's first successful season (20-plus wins; conference regular-season title). In any event, I think TK's view about having to take a hard look if the MVC came calling is probably correct. Our AD's roots are in the Valley. If the Valley came calling, I think there'd be some long, sleepless nights as the administration chewed over what to do.

Because of the current WSU news and speculation, it seems the Summit is more stable and, right now, it seems to be a safe decision to stay where we are as the Summit seems to be improving in statute each year. But I think an invite to join the MVC would get some serious consideration.

Thanks - Friday afternoon end of week brain struggle. I corrected my earlier post.

[thumper_76]

Re: Wichita State Leaving MVC

Well the MVC makes a lot of money from the deep runs in the NCAA by WSU, Creighton and UNI in the last decade. Since Creighton is gone and WSU may be gone, that NCAA pool will shrink over time if the MVC can't sustain that success in the future. This is what is happening at the Horizon. The NCAA pays out based upon how a conference does over a 6 year period. When Butler made those NCAA championship appearances, the Horizon conference got a lot of money. But now that Butler is gone, the Horizon will be a one and done conference just like the Summit and Big Sky.

For the MVC they also make money off the CBS package for the conference tourney. The last time the MVC had to replace a team (Creighton), they went with a team from a big market area in Chicago and added Loyola. They had opportunities to bring in better basketball programs, but instead went with a school from a large market area, hoping that would expose the conference to more people. I would expect the MVC do this again. I think they will pull a team from the Horizon League. If you are in the Horizon League, you will know that the NCAA money from the tourney will dry up over time now that Butler is not in the conference. Therefore a move from the Horizon to the MVC would be attractive to a Horizon school. The MVC is a mix of public and private schools and when they replaced Creighton (Private) they replaced them with a private school in Loyola.

This time around they would lose WSU a Public school so they will probably add a public school from the Horizon in a large Metro area. The likely candidates would be

Cleveland St.
U of Milwaukee
Oakland (Detroit Area)
U of Illinois - Chicago

From that list I would guess they would want to add another school from Chicago in UoI-Chicago. They have a large enrollment of 27,000 and is located in the middle of the conference footprint. But I think any of the 4 I listed above would be given strong consideration for being added.

That would force the Horizon League to add another team. I think they come looking at the Summit League again and invite IPFW.

But having Wichita St. leave the MVC would have a trickle down effect on the Summit I feel.

IMO if the MVC adds those teams they lose UNI because it's a continuation of the stupidity that got them here in the first place, and TV contracts are done paying out like they used to. That time is over, so grabbing schools because of market just shows incredible stupidity if your conference doesn't have its own network.


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[NebraskaJack]

Re: Wichita State Leaving MVC

Well the MVC makes a lot of money from the deep runs in the NCAA by WSU, Creighton and UNI in the last decade. Since Creighton is gone and WSU may be gone, that NCAA pool will shrink over time if the MVC can't sustain that success in the future. This is what is happening at the Horizon. The NCAA pays out based upon how a conference does over a 6 year period. When Butler made those NCAA championship appearances, the Horizon conference got a lot of money. But now that Butler is gone, the Horizon will be a one and done conference just like the Summit and Big Sky.

For the MVC they also make money off the CBS package for the conference tourney. The last time the MVC had to replace a team (Creighton), they went with a team from a big market area in Chicago and added Loyola. They had opportunities to bring in better basketball programs, but instead went with a school from a large market area, hoping that would expose the conference to more people. I would expect the MVC do this again. I think they will pull a team from the Horizon League. If you are in the Horizon League, you will know that the NCAA money from the tourney will dry up over time now that Butler is not in the conference. Therefore a move from the Horizon to the MVC would be attractive to a Horizon school. The MVC is a mix of public and private schools and when they replaced Creighton (Private) they replaced them with a private school in Loyola.

This time around they would lose WSU a Public school so they will probably add a public school from the Horizon in a large Metro area. The likely candidates would be

Cleveland St.
U of Milwaukee
Oakland (Detroit Area)
U of Illinois - Chicago

From that list I would guess they would want to add another school from Chicago in UoI-Chicago. They have a large enrollment of 27,000 and is located in the middle of the conference footprint. But I think any of the 4 I listed above would be given strong consideration for being added.

That would force the Horizon League to add another team. I think they come looking at the Summit League again and invite IPFW.

But having Wichita St. leave the MVC would have a trickle down effect on the Summit I feel.

I would think they realized after Loyola that most mid majors located in a Metro are nothing but after thoughts. I bet their first offer goes to someone with a little more basketball tradition and a financial commitment to grow the program.