MSU-Mankato FB Coach Arrested

[Nidaros]

Re: MSU-Mankato FB Coach Arrested

I was joking about Mankato dropping football and going D-I, though in 2010 when I was on campus for a conference that was the rumor. (1st and only time in Mankato)

I don't blame the university for removing him as the head coach. Whether or not he was innocent, or it was bs, or not, he was arrested. They did not do that. By the time he was cleared, they had a successful season. Where I think they screwed up was not just keeping him reassigned in a position where he was paid, and would eventually chose to leave for a more public job.

As for the student-athletes refusing to play. It doesn't surprise me that some are, I was however surprised by how many, especially considering he was part of the recruitment process for many of them.

But put yourselves in their shoes, their coach is placed on leave/fired right before the beginning of the season, you go on to have 2 successful seasons in the mean time. The former coach has accepted a job at another school, and then right in the middle of spring practices he is told he gets to come back if he wants to. I guess I'm going to cut the kids some slack. My guess is some leave, some quit, but most end up playing for him, whether they like it or not.

I believe this is how it will shake out.

[Hammersmith]

Re: MSU-Mankato FB Coach Arrested

I was joking about Mankato dropping football and going D-I, though in 2010 when I was on campus for a conference that was the rumor. (1st and only time in Mankato)

I don't blame the university for removing him as the head coach. Whether or not he was innocent, or it was bs, or not, he was arrested. They did not do that. By the time he was cleared, they had a successful season. Where I think they screwed up was not just keeping him reassigned in a position where he was paid, and would eventually chose to leave for a more public job.

As for the student-athletes refusing to play. It doesn't surprise me that some are, I was however surprised by how many, especially considering he was part of the recruitment process for many of them.

But put yourselves in their shoes, their coach is placed on leave/fired right before the beginning of the season, you go on to have 2 successful seasons in the mean time. The former coach has accepted a job at another school, and then right in the middle of spring practices he is told he gets to come back if he wants to. I guess I'm going to cut the kids some slack. My guess is some leave, some quit, but most end up playing for him, whether they like it or not.

You mean the job they created out of nowhere that had no responsibilities, was given a dingy office across campus, and wasn't filled after Hoffner was fired? That job?

Even if they had kept him on in that job, this would have played out the same way. Hoffner still would have appealed through his union to an arbitrator, and the arbitrator still would have given the same ruling. Mankato had no grounds to change his job once he was cleared of any illegal actions.

Anyone not in education has to understand that this kind of false accusation is the thing we all fear. It's the biggest boogieman in the closet. Once you are accused of child porn or abusing children/students, your career is toast no matter if it's true or false. It completely ruins your life. Each day that goes by gives me more and more respect for what Hoffner is doing. The only way to get out from under it is to go through it. Fight your way out no matter what. Force the people responsible for the wrong actions to face up to it every single day. If anyone should leave it is most definitely the president and possibly the AD(I don't know if he fought for Hoffner at all, or if he happily went along with the president). All the people involved need to do what is right, not what is convenient.

(Sorry for the rant. Obviously this is a touchy point for me. Like I said, it is the thing an educator fears most.)

[jackdaniel]

Re: MSU-Mankato FB Coach Arrested

You mean the job they created out of nowhere that had no responsibilities, was given a dingy office across campus, and wasn't filled after Hoffner was fired? That job?

Even if they had kept him on in that job, this would have played out the same way. Hoffner still would have appealed through his union to an arbitrator, and the arbitrator still would have given the same ruling. Mankato had no grounds to change his job once he was cleared of any illegal actions.

Anyone not in education has to understand that this kind of false accusation is the thing we all fear. It's the biggest boogieman in the closet. Once you are accused of child porn or abusing children/students, your career is toast no matter if it's true or false. It completely ruins your life. Each day that goes by gives me more and more respect for what Hoffner is doing. The only way to get out from under it is to go through it. Fight your way out no matter what. Force the people responsible for the wrong actions to face up to it every single day. If anyone should leave it is most definitely the president and possibly the AD(I don't know if he fought for Hoffner at all, or if he happily went along with the president). All the people involved need to do what is right, not what is convenient.

(Sorry for the rant. Obviously this is a touchy point for me. Like I said, it is the thing an educator fears most.)

I think it's a statement about our judicial system,where the real lack of trust is.
Open can of worms.

[JackJD]

Re: MSU-Mankato FB Coach Arrested

Good rant, Hammersmith.

I think it's a statement about our judicial system,where the real lack of trust is.
Open can of worms.

Looked inside can, no real worms in there, just misunderstanding and sometimes lack of knowledge.

I concede many people do not have a lot of trust in the judicial system (or the other two branches of government, for that matter), but it is not warranted in most cases. Of course, if you're out doing harm to others as in the case of UM-Mankato v. Hoffner, then you probably should be wary of the judicial system. I'll bet that numbskull President at Mankato is griping to all his friends about his lack of trust in the judicial system. Good. If it wasn't for the judicial system, what protection would Hoffner have had? We should all be thankful he had attorneys who appear to have represented him well against what would to many seem like a tough opponent. That arbitrator's award now becomes an enforceable judgment.

Hoffner will always be remembered as involved in some sordid mess. At least he was able to get some redress and recover some of what he has lost in this travesty, all thanks to the judicial system (and within that system, arbitration which I presume was part of the union's contract with the university).

A lot of money has been spent by various parties to bash the judicial system. That was particularly true in the 1980s and 1990s but continues to this day. And the efforts to discredit the legal system have taken a toll in changing public opinion against the judicial system (but I would argue that like the other two branches of government, the judicial system has been a whipping boy probably since the country was started). I often represent parties who tend to be those who mistrust the judicial system but those fears, when my clients have behaved reasonably, are unjustified and we come out just fine in the court system. I can't speak for every corner of the USA but in these parts, the judicial system deserves our trust (a little skepticism from time-to-time is okay, keeps it on its toes and serves as a reminder that improvement is always possible).


Close can.

Go Jacks!

[witness]

Re: MSU-Mankato FB Coach Arrested

I think it's a statement about our judicial system,where the real lack of trust is.
Open can of worms.

I, myself, would be more worried for me well being if it wasn't for white privilege

[SF_Rabbit_Fan]

Re: MSU-Mankato FB Coach Arrested

I think it would have been awesome if the football team said they were refusing to play until the President and AD resigned or were fired. That would have sent a real statement, and may have actually impacted something.

[Nidaros]

Re: MSU-Mankato FB Coach Arrested

I think it would have been awesome if the football team said they were refusing to play until the President and AD resigned or were fired. That would have sent a real statement, and may have actually impacted something.

Don't have any links but McFooley on KFGO was discussing this topic on his radio show. He was to have the sports writer from Mankato Free Press on his show and they announced the whole team has decided to rally around Hoffner and they will go back to practice.

[jackdaniel]

Re: MSU-Mankato FB Coach Arrested

I, myself, would be more worried for me well being if it wasn't for white privilege

What's this supposed to mean? Our judicial system is racist I assume you mean?

I wasn't addressing racism specifically,I was addressing the broader idea of "fairness" for all,and how it's viewed by everyone.Trust in the system .I think JackJD did a good job of explaining how we should continue to trust the system.I was just a little confused ,there's nothing about race in this case,it was about child pornography.

Racism in the judicial system is a whole other discussion.Your statement might have some relevance in "trusting " the Judicial system,and has some merit in this thread,but it takes awhile to connect the dots.

[witness]

Re: MSU-Mankato FB Coach Arrested

What's this supposed to mean? Our judicial system is racist I assume you mean?

I wasn't addressing racism specifically,I was addressing the broader idea of "fairness" for all,and how it's viewed by everyone.Trust in the system .I think JackJD did a good job of explaining how we should continue to trust the system.I was just a little confused ,there's nothing about race in this case,it was about child pornography.

Racism in the judicial system is a whole other discussion.Your statement might have some relevance in "trusting " the Judicial system,and has some merit in this thread,but it takes awhile to connect the dots.

Yes I know there is nothing that deals with race about this case but you said it is tough to trust in the judicial system to which I provided an example why it is tough to trust the system. All I'm saying is white privilege is rampant in the judicial system and white privilege goes farther than just the judicial system. Macklemore has wrote a song called "White Privilege" and Eminem did a song called "White America"

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/...04463789858002
This is probably the most recognizable case: http://www.dallasnews.com/investigat...om-prison-.ece
Or even the fact that men serve longer than women for same crimes: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/0...n_1874742.html

[jackdaniel]

Re: MSU-Mankato FB Coach Arrested

Yes I know there is nothing that deals with race about this case but you said it is tough to trust in the judicial system to which I provided an example why it is tough to trust the system. All I'm saying is white privilege is rampant in the judicial system and white privilege goes farther than just the judicial system. Macklemore has wrote a song called "White Privilege" and Eminem did a song called "White America"

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/...04463789858002
This is probably the most recognizable case: http://www.dallasnews.com/investigat...om-prison-.ece
Or even the fact that men serve longer than women for same crimes: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/0...n_1874742.html

Thanks for expounding on your statement,I understand now.

[slosho]

Re: MSU-Mankato FB Coach Arrested

Yes I know there is nothing that deals with race about this case but you said it is tough to trust in the judicial system to which I provided an example why it is tough to trust the system. All I'm saying is white privilege is rampant in the judicial system and white privilege goes farther than just the judicial system. Macklemore has wrote a song called "White Privilege" and Eminem did a song called "White America"

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/...04463789858002
This is probably the most recognizable case: http://www.dallasnews.com/investigat...om-prison-.ece
Or even the fact that men serve longer than women for same crimes: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/0...n_1874742.html

I think that your right on with this observation, however it seems there is not much going on in the way of reform. and that's a shame really.

[jackdaniel]

Re: MSU-Mankato FB Coach Arrested

The more I think of the latest "news",the more i think "why all the dramatics?".If they were going to do this, why all the big drama of refusing to practice in the first place?I think these guys might want their 15 min of fame is all this is.They got it,the news media alway's looking for a story.

[JackJD]

Re: MSU-Mankato FB Coach Arrested

Here's a link to the Argus Leader's story (4/17/14) about the team's position change to now uniting behind Hoffner:

http://www.argusleader.com/story/spo...ffner/7833915/

[Nidaros]

Re: MSU-Mankato FB Coach Arrested

I feel so much more informed now,still don't know why they wouldn't stand by Hoffner from the start,do you?Just by reading this article?I guess I expect news articles to answer questions, not make you ask more.End of rant,I'll never know,but I'll be constantly reminded at the same time.Wonderful.

I can see that after 11-1 season minus Hoffner, Keen deserved to be coach. In these young minds, stability is threaten.

[jackdaniel]

Re: MSU-Mankato FB Coach Arrested

I deleted my post,I seem to be argumentative today,agree with you Nidaros,it probably has nothing to do about Hoffner,and simply loyalty to the only coach they've known.That's all I need to know,sometimes i think i'm entitled to more information ,.....I'm not.Thanks.