Announcement

**joeboo22** · 04-17-2007, 09:41 PM

Re: Rail line to be restored

I live in Tyndall the line runs 30 yards from my front door and the communities are not happy on how the situation is going down. First of all they only care about an ethanol plant north of wagner, nothing else, second of all the state has had numerous people interested in the line and have said no sale, elevaters have tried to buy sections that there built on and the state would not let them, also millions will have to be spent to improve this for an ethanol plant that my friends in the ethanol buisness say that will be tough to make money... I hope that it goes threw though just hope they start treating the towns alil nicer and allow the small towns to grow from the line rather then to have it just be a nucence. the local legislature has said there kind of in a pickle over the situation... spend millions for a railroad that hasn't ran in 20 years and hasn't ran fullspeed in 30 or be against the ethanol buisness. Like I said though im hoping for the best I just don't want to see a belly up ethanol plant and a vacent line in 10 years.

**1stRowFANatic** · 04-19-2007, 10:31 PM

Re: Rail line to be restored

Not sure I get this, if the line is updated so that it can handle the traffic from the ethanol plant, why would that hurt the elevators? The additional traffic from the elevators, either to or away from the ethanol plant, would only reduce the cost of using the line for all, as it is more efficient to pull as many cars as possible with each pass of the engine. I assume that the line will be redone so that it can handle unit trains, which is the standard now for inter-operation with other lines, is that not the case? From what I have seen about this plant, the volume of traffic will not preclude use by any other potential users along the line. I can understand why the state wouldn't want to sell small parts, because if you don't get to a connecting line, it reduces the chance that someone else will buy & upgrade the rest of the line. Why would the other towns be against this?

**joeboo22** · 04-20-2007, 12:57 AM

Re: Rail line to be restored

Originally posted by 1stRowFANatic

Not sure I get this, if the line is updated so that it can handle the traffic from the ethanol plant, why would that hurt the elevators? The additional traffic from the elevators, either to or away from the ethanol plant, would only reduce the cost of using the line for all, as it is more efficient to pull as many cars as possible with each pass of the engine. I assume that the line will be redone so that it can handle unit trains, which is the standard now for inter-operation with other lines, is that not the case? From what I have seen about this plant, the volume of traffic will not preclude use by any other potential users along the line. I can understand why the state wouldn't want to sell small parts, because if you don't get to a connecting line, it reduces the chance that someone else will buy & upgrade the rest of the line. Why would the other towns be against this?

The towns are against it because its been out for 20+ years and alot of towns have took sections out, paved over and built things on or next to the rail line... From NAPA Junction to Ravinia there is 4 elevators that run through it, (Tabor, Tyndall, Avon, and Wagner)... The manager of the Avon elevator and the Tabor elevator are on the rail board and both were against it, and they were told that the line will be used for ethanol/ddg, coal and corn and later a possibility of fertilizer to and from and little to no cars will be picked up at the small elevators, the elevators will have to out of pocket pay for side track...
Also alot of people are sceptical about the condition, past tyndall the line runs next to the tyndall city dump which has bad water problems, and when it goes behind the golf course it goes through a creek which would be hard to build something stable.... When leaving avon it goes through there housing development then theres the 3 feet the city filled in over the railroad track... which they have done in other places....
It will be interesting to see if this actually happens, in the past 10 years there have been numerous attempts to reopen the line, but this is by far the furthest it has ever gone, but I am still sceptical also the question if they bought the line all the way to platte, if they bought it just to revina or if they are just going to renevate to revina or if they are going to renevate it all is one major question that alot of people have.

**1stRowFANatic** · 04-20-2007, 08:05 PM

Re: Rail line to be restored

That makes sense, though I would never have advised anyone to build over a rail line that hasn't been officially abandoned

**joeboo22** · 07-10-2007, 09:55 PM

Re: Rail line to be restored

Is ethanol plant a cover for something else to be traveled on the rail???

First of all how are they going to power an ethanol plant using fiber? I work at the largest ethanol producers research plant and we havn't even heard of burning fiber to substitute natural gas.
Second why would you put an ethanol plant where there is no natural gas, no excisting rail and NO CORN (little but not much)
Third why would you only travel at 10mph and carry only 30ish cars on track that is rated for 35mph and 110 cars. esentually they could prolly run 35 cars at 10mph on the track there?
Fourth why would you first purchase the whole line (NAPA-PLATTE) and second go to Ravinia if the plant is going to be east of Wagner?

Now my conspiricy opinion... �Fagen is building this plant as an experimental plant with the intent to put windfarms up in the area and the rail would help a great deal. Or this ethanol plant is a cover for a Nuclear Waste site that would allow for a Nuclear Plant to be built in the area. (It has been rumored for years that somehwere on the Yankton Sioux Reservation that there is a Nuclear Waste site ready to dump wuclear waste or there previously was a nuclear waste site and a railroad would help alot with transfer. An ethanol plant would allow for the state to sell the rail and for a train to operate on it with out the publics knowledge.

**filbert** · 07-11-2007, 09:08 AM

Re: Rail line to be restored

Originally posted by joeboo22

Is ethanol plant a cover for something else to be traveled on the rail???

First of all how are they going to power an ethanol plant using fiber? I work at the largest ethanol producers research plant and we havn't even heard of burning fiber to substitute natural gas.
Second why would you put an ethanol plant where there is no natural gas, no excisting rail and NO CORN (little but not much)
Third why would you only travel at 10mph and carry only 30ish cars on track that is rated for 35mph and 110 cars. esentually they could prolly run 35 cars at 10mph on the track there?
Fourth why would you first purchase the whole line (NAPA-PLATTE) and second go to Ravinia if the plant is going to be east of Wagner?

Now my conspiricy opinion... Fagen is building this plant as an experimental plant with the intent to put windfarms up in the area and the rail would help a great deal. Or this ethanol plant is a cover for a Nuclear Waste site that would allow for a Nuclear Plant to be built in the area. (It has been rumored for years that somehwere on the Yankton Sioux Reservation that there is a Nuclear Waste site ready to dump wuclear waste or there previously was a nuclear waste site and a railroad would help alot with transfer. An ethanol plant would allow for the state to sell the rail and for a train to operate on it with out the publics knowledge.

Do a web search for "cellulosic ethanol."

**joeboo22** · 07-11-2007, 04:09 PM

Re: Rail line to be restored

cellulosic ethanol means that they can develop ethanol from fiber and corn stover and the bi-product has no feed value so it would be burned and used as a substitute of natural gas.... However that technology is only achievable through a fracnation project and Fagen or ICM does not have that technology it is called Bfrac (Broin project Fracnation) which is patented... Wagner Native Ethanol wants to burn fibor but even if they could it could only substitute between 80 and 90% of the natural gas consumption. I know what celloulostic ethanol is look up Project L.I.B.E.R.T.Y. all of this is about cellulose ethanol.

What I am getting at is this.... It has been rumored that they want to build a Nuclear plant somewhere in South Eastern South Dakota and the Tribes have been trying to get it approved for Nuclear Waste Dumb sites on the reservations and it is rumored that there is one in place ready to dump somewhere on the Yankton Sioux Reservation.

**NorCalJack** · 07-11-2007, 05:30 PM

Re: Rail line to be restored

Originally posted by joeboo22

cellulosic ethanol means that they can develop ethanol from fiber and corn stover and the bi-product has no feed value so it would be burned and used as a substitute of natural gas.... However that technology is only achievable through a fracnation project and Fagen or ICM does not have that technology it is called Bfrac (Broin project Fracnation) which is patented... Wagner Native Ethanol wants to burn fibor but even if they could it could only substitute between 80 and 90% of the natural gas consumption. I know what celloulostic ethanol is look up Project L.I.B.E.R.T.Y. all of this is about cellulose ethanol.

What I am getting at is this.... It has been rumored that they want to build a Nuclear plant somewhere in South Eastern South Dakota and the Tribes have been trying to get it approved for Nuclear Waste Dumb sites on the reservations and it is rumored that there is one in place ready to dump somewhere on the Yankton Sioux Reservation.

joeboo22 - It's time to take your meds dude.

**thebluehatman** · 07-11-2007, 08:18 PM

Re: Rail line to be restored

You are one really really dumb SOB there joe. I hate to say it, I've held my tongue long enough. Whether real or not you come up with some of the dumbest stuff I've heard in a while. Oh well.

**joeboo22** · 07-11-2007, 09:09 PM

Re: Rail line to be restored

Maybe I am wrong but when somebody is going to spend 160 million on an ethanol plant and 20 million on a rail and locate it in one of the poorest corn producing counties in the state I begin to wonder. Then they start chirpin about burning fiber to operate, if the technology was there all plants would be burning fiber its not there trust me.

I talked to the PUC (including the governors son) and they didn't comment on any possibilty of Nuclear but they said the ethanol plant isn't getting built and then told me "I wonder what they are going to hall on the rail" like they knew something that they couldn't tell me.

As far as the cellulosic information google project LIBERTY thats the techinicals involved

**joeboo22** · 07-11-2007, 09:37 PM

Re: Rail line to be restored

http://www.farmfoundation.org/projec...Cellulosic.pdf

here is a good power point explaing Bfrac and project liberty.

**State_fan** · 07-11-2007, 10:21 PM

Re: Rail line to be restored

Originally posted by joeboo22

Maybe I am wrong but when somebody is going to spend 160 million on an ethanol plant and 20 million on a rail and locate it in one of the poorest corn producing counties in the state I begin to wonder. Then they start chirpin about burning fiber to operate, if the technology was there all plants would be burning fiber its not there trust me.

I talked to the PUC (including the governors son) and they didn't comment on any possibilty of Nuclear but they said the ethanol plant isn't getting built and then told me "I wonder what they are going to hall on the rail" like they knew something that they couldn't tell me.

As far as the cellulosic information google project LIBERTY thats the techinicals involved

I am from that part of the state originally (gregory county), and to say that it is one of the poorest corn producing counties in the state is completely false. I guarantee the corn crop in charles mix county kicks the hell out of most west river counties (and is as good as any east river county) in the state, and will do so on a regular basis. I currently live in Iowa and can say that the corn north of Wagner on hwy 18 is every bit as tall and thick as that anywhere down here. And to think the tribe is gonna get away with installing a nuclear waste dump (if there is even an interest in it great enough to pull it off i doubt) is the biggest bunch of crap i've ever heard. Now whether they are or aren't continuing on with building an ethanol plant in Wagner I'm not sure, but you sound to me like someone who has a thing against Wagner because they beat Bon Homme all the time in football.

**joeboo22** · 07-11-2007, 11:01 PM

Re: Rail line to be restored

first of all morrell lost for the first time in that matchup last year but I could care less. I'm not much of a football fan. I don't know where you are from in Iowa but to say Charles Mix produces similar to Iowa doesn't sound right to me I ment to say one of the worst east river counties. Last year the Wagner Elevator handled around 1.5 million bushels. The Avon Elevator sells the majority of there corn to Scotland (Poet Research Center) and I from talking to both Scotlands commodities manager and Avon's Elevator manager I believe that won't change. I know plenty of farmers on Highway 18 and north and the majority of there corn is first poor and second raised for silage they raise alot of beans but not much corn.
Some interesting facts
It takes 300 sq miles of 150 bushel/acre corn to run an ethanol plant of that size.
Charles Mix's average from 00-04 82.9 bushels/acre

ethanol plants within 100 miles and corn use for a year
Poet Research Center (Scotland) 3-4 million bushels
Poet Biorefining Loomis (Mitchell) 16-18 million bushels
Poet Biorefining Chancler (Chancler/Lennox) after expansion- 32-35 million bushels
Millennium Ethanol (Marion) 33-37 million bushels
Hearltand Grain (Huron) 9-12 million bushels
Missorui River Renewable Energy (Meckling)--18-20 million bushels not shure on status construction is curently stalled

**State_fan** · 07-12-2007, 11:34 AM

Re: Rail line to be restored

Don't forget about north eastern NE for possible intake. The closest plants in that area from Wagner are Plainview and Atkinson. �Both of these are sizable facilities, but they are quite a distance away from Wagner and a lot of corn is produced in that part of the state also. �
As for saying the crop is always poor on hwy 18 and that all the corn raised there is cut for silage is a stretch. �I was just on hwy 18 north of wagner over the week of the 4th of July and the corn along there was easily above head high (6-7 ft range) and tassling, the same as it is through all of Iowa. �
Your facts for the 2000-2004 in Charles Mix were also affected by drought over some of those years. �
In any case, considering the cost associated with building a 50M gallon facility, i'm sure there are a lot of people smarter than you or I planning this thing out so that its a profitable facility.

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