old sioux falls arena...

[MrAugustana]

Re: old sioux falls arena...

Frost is verging on venerable. Opponents like playing there. It has a reputation. It has a great name. If you could somehow ask basketball fans who do not closely follow the Summit League, to name an arena in the Summit League, some might think of the Maybe Center, some may come up with the simple but classic Western Hall as a name that sticks in mind; but, the name you'll hear the most is Frost Arena.


[The film Hoosiers was on TV this past weekend...Butler's Hinkle Fieldhouse, built in 1928 -- what a shrine to basketball.]

If SDSU's opponents like playing at Frost, they must be dumb as bricks. As today's Zimmer article points out, the Jackrabbits are 59-3 there since 2011-12. http://www.argusleader.com/story/spo...frost/79687512

(To be clear, I get what you're saying. Fans of schools with low attendance probably enjoy playing in front of a crowd for once. But anyone who likes playing in a venue that's a near-guaranteed loss might want to reconsider their preferential hierarchy.)

[OldHare]

Re: old sioux falls arena...

The Summit has new(er) facilities in Omaha and Denver. ORU has a great facility. IUPUI is playing in a renovated facility. IPFW(gymnasium) and WIU have older but serviceable venues. NDSU & USD will be playing in new arenas next year. Frost in Brookings has decent seating for the reserved sections, but the bleachers are in need of attention which is on the list. Getting people to the games creates much of the game time experience. Even when there is not 3000 people in Frost, it will have a buzz in the building. The attendance at the SF Arena is giving the Augie program the buzz with a very competitive team. If the team took a big drop in talent, the crowds might shrink. After the team success, then the parking and seating is more important. Pre Wolters era attendance at Frost was 2000 and less per game. Wolters era attendance was over 3000.

[MontanaRabbit]

Re: old sioux falls arena...

If SDSU's opponents like playing at Frost, they must be dumb as bricks. As today's Zimmer article points out, the Jackrabbits are 59-3 there since 2011-12. http://www.argusleader.com/story/spo...frost/79687512

(To be clear, I get what you're saying. Fans of schools with low attendance probably enjoy playing in front of a crowd for once. But anyone who likes playing in a venue that's a near-guaranteed loss might want to reconsider their preferential hierarchy.)

Wow. 59-3. I knew we were tough at home but man. That's impressive.

I wonder what the women's record is over the same time frame. There pry a chance we haven't lost 10 games at Frost in the last 5 years between the two.

[filbert]

Re: old sioux falls arena...

The Summit has new(er) facilities in Omaha and Denver. ORU has a great facility. IUPUI is playing in a renovated facility. IPFW(gymnasium) and WIU have older but serviceable venues. NDSU & USD will be playing in new arenas next year. Frost in Brookings has decent seating for the reserved sections, but the bleachers are in need of attention which is on the list. Getting people to the games creates much of the game time experience. Even when there is not 3000 people in Frost, it will have a buzz in the building. The attendance at the SF Arena is giving the Augie program the buzz with a very competitive team. If the team took a big drop in talent, the crowds might shrink. After the team success, then the parking and seating is more important. Pre Wolters era attendance at Frost was 2000 and less per game. Wolters era attendance was over 3000.

Frost is about a decade (or more) overdue for a major renovation (par for the course for SDSU facilities from the D-II era). Some of the seating changes made in there since the D-I move had foreseeable "unforeseen consequences" which resulted in the upper deck bleachers being rendered marginally usable at best. The ends of the upper south side bleachers, especially the lower parts, were always essentially obstructed-view seating due to the configuration of the facility.

Fortunately, Frost renovation is next on the list after the stadium re-build. I would guess (and ardently hope that) it would include vastly improved sightlines in the upper section, with wraparound bowl seating from the northwest around the south to the northeast corner, among other improvements.

[jackrabit1]

Re: old sioux falls arena...

Frost is about a decade (or more) overdue for a major renovation (par for the course for SDSU facilities from the D-II era). Some of the seating changes made in there since the D-I move had foreseeable "unforeseen consequences" which resulted in the upper deck bleachers being rendered marginally usable at best. The ends of the upper south side bleachers, especially the lower parts, were always essentially obstructed-view seating due to the configuration of the facility.

Fortunately, Frost renovation is next on the list after the stadium re-build. I would guess (and ardently hope that) it would include vastly improved sightlines in the upper section, with wraparound bowl seating from the northwest around the south to the northeast corner, among other improvements.

And since there's no more need for the indoor track in there, it makes perfect sense to go with bowl-style seating.

[jackrabit1]

Re: old sioux falls arena...

Back to the Arena... it will be used this year for the combined "AA" boys and girls' basketball tournaments. The Arena will host half of the first-round games, as well as some of the consolation rounds and the 7th-place games.

Here's how it'll break down...

http://www.sdhsaa.com/Portals/0/PDFs...ket-AABoys.pdf

http://www.sdhsaa.com/Portals/0/PDFs...et-AAGirls.pdf

[goon]

Re: old sioux falls arena...

And since there's no more need for the indoor track in there, it makes perfect sense to go with bowl-style seating.

which should really help raise the seats up and improve those sightlines.

[Jacked_Up]

Re: old sioux falls arena...

I'm assuming (hoping?) the renovation of Frost includes knocking out the entire south wall to expand the ground-floor corridor and upper-level seating area on that side of the court. If practice gyms are going to be built on the south parking lot, rebuilding the south wall of Frost is in order.
Back to Augie: Augie has one of the best D-II men's teams in the nation. That's the most important factor in drawing fans.

[MrAugustana]

Re: old sioux falls arena...

I'm assuming (hoping?) the renovation of Frost includes knocking out the entire south wall to expand the ground-floor corridor and upper-level seating area on that side of the court. If practice gyms are going to be built on the south parking lot, rebuilding the south wall of Frost is in order.
Back to Augie: Augie has one of the best D-II men's teams in the nation. That's the most important factor in drawing fans.

I won't argue that it's important. But Augie has been top 3-4 in the country (if not #2, usually behind Northern State at #1) for D2 attendance for the past 10+ years. And Augie has had good teams, but not always one of the best teams in the nation. We generally just have really good attendance. That being said, this is the first year we've ever been ahead of Northern, so clearly being #2 or #1 most of the season has helped beyond the usual.

[Justwin]

Re: old sioux falls arena...

I won't argue that it's important. But Augie has been top 3-4 in the country (if not #2, usually behind Northern State at #1) for D2 attendance for the past 10+ years. And Augie has had good teams, but not always one of the best teams in the nation. We generally just have really good attendance. That being said, this is the first year we've ever been ahead of Northern, so clearly being #2 or #1 most of the season has helped beyond the usual.

I agree with everything you said and glad to see Augie drawing well. I do believe Augie has a couple advantages over SDSU in crowd attendance. 1) most games are played against teams within driving distance so the other team brings some fans versus basically zero for The Jacks. 2) Augie plays many Double headers (which I've never figured out how they count that at any place) 3) ticket prices. I'm by no means trying to get in a argument, any thoughts?

[Nidaros]

Re: old sioux falls arena...

I agree with everything you said and glad to see Augie drawing well. I do believe Augie has a couple advantages over SDSU in crowd attendance. 1) most games are played against teams within driving distance so the other team brings some fans versus basically zero for The Jacks. 2) Augie plays many Double headers (which I've never figured out how they count that at any place) 3) ticket prices. I'm by no means trying to get in a argument, any thoughts?

You get what you pay for.

[SanDakotaState]

Re: old sioux falls arena...

I agree with everything you said and glad to see Augie drawing well. I do believe Augie has a couple advantages over SDSU in crowd attendance. 1) most games are played against teams within driving distance so the other team brings some fans versus basically zero for The Jacks. 2) Augie plays many Double headers (which I've never figured out how they count that at any place) 3) ticket prices. I'm by no means trying to get in a argument, any thoughts?

Not to mention that Augie is located in Sioux Falls, not 45 minutes north of Sioux Falls. There is a reason why SDSU gets over 6,000 fans at the SLT. Not saying the Jacks would get that many fans every game but the attendance would probably average around 3500 if SDSU was in Sioux Falls.

[MrAugustana]

Re: old sioux falls arena...

You get what you pay for.

Sick burn, bro.

I agree with everything you said and glad to see Augie drawing well. I do believe Augie has a couple advantages over SDSU in crowd attendance. 1) most games are played against teams within driving distance so the other team brings some fans versus basically zero for The Jacks. 2) Augie plays many Double headers (which I've never figured out how they count that at any place) 3) ticket prices. I'm by no means trying to get in a argument, any thoughts?

Not to mention that Augie is located in Sioux Falls, not 45 minutes north of Sioux Falls. There is a reason why SDSU gets over 6,000 fans at the SLT. Not saying the Jacks would get that many fans every game but the attendance would probably average around 3500 if SDSU was in Sioux Falls.

Similarly, I won't try to get into an argument. Then again, I believe it's completely possible for two reasonable people to have a discussion about things they don't agree on 100% and let it be just that--a discussion--rather than turning it into an argument. So I will calmly discuss it with you as well.

1) Don't disagree about the fans having the option to make the drive because of a closer driving distance. That being said, there are only a small handful of teams who actually have fans who would actually travel even a few hours to watch their teams. Northern generally has fans show up (although we don't play them at home this year, unfortunately), as does Southwest Minnesota State, but I've been to every home game at the Arena this year, and several teams had almost no visiting fan base at all. I don't remember more than a small handful for Bemidji and St. Cloud, a depressingly low number from Mankato (for having a consistently good program, their fan attendance is depressing, both at home and on the road), and basically zero fans from Mary and Minot for the men's games. So while it would help to have teams that close, I can't think of a single game where we had more than 100-200 opposing fans there, at the very most. Other than USF, but that's not exactly a ton of travel. Plus, their fans don't even show up for their own games (they only average 625 fans per game at home), so it's not like they packed the house at the Arena anyway.

2) The double header thing certainly helps. But seeing as very few people leave after the women's games, I find it hard to believe the attendance numbers would drop dramatically for single headers. It's not like a few years ago when your women's teams were outdrawing (or nearly outdrawing) your men's teams or anything quite like that. But yes, it probably helps.

3) Ticket prices are different, which probably helps. Here's the breakdown for what I found in the ticket price differences:

SDSU:
Reserved- Upper Level ($25.00)
AA/FF Reserved ($25.00)
General Admission ($10.00 - $20.00)

Augie (for doubleheaders):
Lower Level Reserved: $20
Upper Level Reserved: $15
General Admission: Adult $12, k-12 $5 vs. USF Adult $15, k-12 $5

So yes, tickets are a little cheaper for Augie. At the same time, Augie does have the challenge of trying to get fans to come two nights in a row throughout conference play, since we're in a Friday/Saturday league. So if you have a family of 5 coming to the Friday night game, even general admission is going to run you $39 just for tickets, plus the same amount the very next night if you want that family to come back again for Saturday's game. Maybe that doesn't mean anything and the number of home games between Augie and SDSU balances out either way, but I do think it's a challenge to convince people to part with that amount of money two nights in a row. Could just be the way I'm wired though.

To SanDakotaState's point, I'd imagine being in Sioux Falls helps. At the same time, Brookings has an advantage in some ways by not having to compete with all of the stuff going on that Sioux Falls has going on every weekend (concerts, the Skyforce, the Stampede, etc.). I would almost think Brookings could be more like Aberdeen, where Northern's fans basically have nothing else to do besides go to NSU games on weekends. But maybe that's an unfair assessment.

Either way, as people have noted, there are a number of reasons Augie is drawing so well. I think having a strong team this season and playing in a venue that feels more "big time" (like I mentioned earlier) than the Elmen Center are probably two of the biggest reasons though.

[JackJD]

Re: old sioux falls arena...

Jansen, and to a little lesser degree, Schilling, are fun to watch. Guys like that will draw spectators. Augie is putting out a good product and they've earned the fan support. I haven't watched them live but have watched parts of games on TV.

[Justwin]

Re: old sioux falls arena...

Sick burn, bro.






Similarly, I won't try to get into an argument. Then again, I believe it's completely possible for two reasonable people to have a discussion about things they don't agree on 100% and let it be just that--a discussion--rather than turning it into an argument. So I will calmly discuss it with you as well.

1) Don't disagree about the fans having the option to make the drive because of a closer driving distance. That being said, there are only a small handful of teams who actually have fans who would actually travel even a few hours to watch their teams. Northern generally has fans show up (although we don't play them at home this year, unfortunately), as does Southwest Minnesota State, but I've been to every home game at the Arena this year, and several teams had almost no visiting fan base at all. I don't remember more than a small handful for Bemidji and St. Cloud, a depressingly low number from Mankato (for having a consistently good program, their fan attendance is depressing, both at home and on the road), and basically zero fans from Mary and Minot for the men's games. So while it would help to have teams that close, I can't think of a single game where we had more than 100-200 opposing fans there, at the very most. Other than USF, but that's not exactly a ton of travel. Plus, their fans don't even show up for their own games (they only average 625 fans per game at home), so it's not like they packed the house at the Arena anyway.

2) The double header thing certainly helps. But seeing as very few people leave after the women's games, I find it hard to believe the attendance numbers would drop dramatically for single headers. It's not like a few years ago when your women's teams were outdrawing (or nearly outdrawing) your men's teams or anything quite like that. But yes, it probably helps.

3) Ticket prices are different, which probably helps. Here's the breakdown for what I found in the ticket price differences:

SDSU:
Reserved- Upper Level ($25.00)
AA/FF Reserved ($25.00)
General Admission ($10.00 - $20.00)

Augie (for doubleheaders):
Lower Level Reserved: $20
Upper Level Reserved: $15
General Admission: Adult $12, k-12 $5 vs. USF Adult $15, k-12 $5

So yes, tickets are a little cheaper for Augie. At the same time, Augie does have the challenge of trying to get fans to come two nights in a row throughout conference play, since we're in a Friday/Saturday league. So if you have a family of 5 coming to the Friday night game, even general admission is going to run you $39 just for tickets, plus the same amount the very next night if you want that family to come back again for Saturday's game. Maybe that doesn't mean anything and the number of home games between Augie and SDSU balances out either way, but I do think it's a challenge to convince people to part with that amount of money two nights in a row. Could just be the way I'm wired though.

To SanDakotaState's point, I'd imagine being in Sioux Falls helps. At the same time, Brookings has an advantage in some ways by not having to compete with all of the stuff going on that Sioux Falls has going on every weekend (concerts, the Skyforce, the Stampede, etc.). I would almost think Brookings could be more like Aberdeen, where Northern's fans basically have nothing else to do besides go to NSU games on weekends. But maybe that's an unfair assessment.

Either way, as people have noted, there are a number of reasons Augie is drawing so well. I think having a strong team this season and playing in a venue that feels more "big time" (like I mentioned earlier) than the Elmen Center are probably two of the biggest reasons though.

Good discussion. All places do it but I think double headers create such a spread in tickets sold versus attendance. This will be the case this weekend at the SDSU games. People are for the most part counted twice. I bet I can think of one thing Mr. A and I will agree on...........SDSU vs AUGIE. Let's play this game!