Demographic Changes in South Dakota.

[Nidaros]

I thought maybe I would start a new thread to continue the high-jacked thread about Coach Christiansen. I read some very passionate posts under that thread. I do think its of interest and has been for a long time. The state of South Dakota was built around the idea that family farms would be 160 acres. Now to farm and be competitive, a farmer has to farm many more acres. I am not up on that numbers, but its not unusual to farm 3000 acres in eastern South Dakota. Something that was unheard of back in my student days in the 1960's. The selling off of family farms 160 acres started in the late 1950's and it continued for many years there after. The fewer farmers and larger operations has impacted main street in many of the communities spoken of in the other thread. Fewer business and fewer farm families had impacted the local high schools. Small towns are disappearing. High schools are closing has been the trend since the 1960's.

I used to follow Class B high school basketball. There were 32 districts with many if not most having eight participating schools and for a small town to make it to the state tournament which used to be at the Huron Arena was really a big, big deal. The community of Hayti comes to mind with Jim Marking being a coach. The Hayti Redbirds made four consecutive appearances between 1952 and 1955 which was very rare back in those days. Now Hayti is part of Hamlin County and the big show downs with Lake Norden are a thing of the past. What happened to those trophies? I think they are at Hamlin High School. It seems like when a school closes the trophy case is emptied and the contents are boxed up and forgotten. This is a shame as the trophy case often contained history.

Times are really changing, and to keep a community going is a major task and it affects state funding for grades K-12.
Some talked about living in Sioux Falls and having to pay money for kids in Faith SD. Is that fair? If you are a rancher with kids living near Faith, you would hope so and gladly take those SF bucks in order to get a good education for their youngsters.

I read in the Brookings Register about the legislature and their big challenges that they face this year. One is the funding to improve teacher salaries and the other is the increased funding for Medicaid. All of this will no doubt be discussed and voted on in weeks to come.

This world has never been fair, but somehow my heart comes down on the rural side. Some of these communities never had a chance to begin with but they are still there fighting for their lives.

[West-River_Jack]

Re: Demographic Changes in South Dakota.

The changes go far beyond the farm. I recall a time when small towns like Volga and Arlington had two grocery stores each, two or three hardware stores, a place or two where you could buy clothing and shoes, and automobile dealers. Not only have student numbers shrunk as the numbers of farms decreased, they have shrunk as a result of fewer families own and work in the business sector of small towns.

More towns will fade away over the next few decades.

[Nidaros]

Re: Demographic Changes in South Dakota.

Volga had 3 stores in 1940-50 era, Martinsens, Hammer and Anundsen all had groceries. Hammer sold clothes along with groceries. I recall Arlingon had more stores than now. We did not shop in Arlington although I live there and daily walk by many empty places of business on the way to the post office. These stores existed because of farm people buying groceries and services provided by various business. With fewer farm population this has impacted business and communities, no doubt about that. Also population of Volga in the 1950's was 680 and now its roughly 1790 so its one of the few towns that show some growth. Most of that is bedroom growth of jobs in Brookings.

[SF_Rabbit_Fan]

Re: Demographic Changes in South Dakota.

I certainly don't envy the folks in charge of addressing these issues.

I did complain about my taxes being raised to support schools that many objective outsiders would say should be closed. I do understand the emotional ties to a local school, and what that means for a community to have that school. I have no problem with my taxes being used to fund education in a responsible manner.

[Nidaros]

Re: Demographic Changes in South Dakota.

I certainly don't envy the folks in charge of addressing these issues.

I did complain about my taxes being raised to support schools that many objective outsiders would say should be closed. I do understand the emotional ties to a local school, and what that means for a community to have that school. I have no problem with my taxes being used to fund education in a responsible manner.

Tell me about those emotional issues. Sinai High School closed in 1961 I believe and that one high school that probably should never have been opened. I think the largest graduating class was whooping 15. Often 7 or 8 was the normal. You can go back to post WWI for the beginning of these problems. In 1920 it look very promising that rural population would continue to grow. So many small towns decided this was the time to build and they floated bond issues to finance the new buildings. In Sinai case they build the new school about 1925 and started high school. I not sure but I don't think they ever paid off those bonds, until they closed. Property taxes were at the highest mill levy allowed by law. What I remember about the closing was so many people Sinai did not want to be part of the Volga school district. Why? because they always won in basketball and were "too snotty" about it. Well today that area around Sinai today is part of Sioux Valley School district that includes area around Bruce and borders the Brookings School District. A healthy district in my opinion.
They have a very good schools system in Volga and yes they have built buildings and seem to be keeping up. Keeping up is the big thing that so many school districts have to deal with. Then the legislature has to come up with adequate funding and now they are being asked to raise teacher salaries because individual district are over taxed or do not have a means to fund salary increases. I hoping the legislature which is in the hands of the party that I don't often vote for will have the wisdom to keep all of South Dakota in the game. This is part of keeping up with the times.

We have got to get over some of these very rural notions such as the teacher make the most money in the community and spend the least time doing it. That is anti-intellectualism at its best. Getting a teacher and keeping him or her is very important for the community. Also if a school closes and joins a nearby district, why should the closing district be worried about what the school colors for the new system will be? And what about mascots? I can go on and on, but whether you live in Arlington or Sioux Falls, you should be concerned about the next generation. They are the future. Dang I hate to see South Dakota, 50th in any measure of statistics, especially teacher pay.

[Nidaros]

Re: Demographic Changes in South Dakota.

Sf-Jack-fan said he was for education if its done in a responsible manner. I could not agree more. He mentioned Willow Lake and their building program. Its no doubt going to have a big affect on the Willow Lake District for a long time. You hope some responsible planning on the financing was done so 10 or 15 years from now, they are not defaulting on those bonds. I assume bond financing was part of this project. As I alluded to, building programs are important and make the education process possible but they have to be done in a responsible manner.

[NWHSUandSDSU]

Re: Demographic Changes in South Dakota.

I thought maybe I would start a new thread to continue the high-jacked thread about Coach Christiansen. I read some very passionate posts under that thread. I do think its of interest and has been for a long time. The state of South Dakota was built around the idea that family farms would be 160 acres. Now to farm and be competitive, a farmer has to farm many more acres. I am not up on that numbers, but its not unusual to farm 3000 acres in eastern South Dakota. Something that was unheard of back in my student days in the 1960's. The selling off of family farms 160 acres started in the late 1950's and it continued for many years there after. The fewer farmers and larger operations has impacted main street in many of the communities spoken of in the other thread. Fewer business and fewer farm families had impacted the local high schools. Small towns are disappearing. High schools are closing has been the trend since the 1960's.

I used to follow Class B high school basketball. There were 32 districts with many if not most having eight participating schools and for a small town to make it to the state tournament which used to be at the Huron Arena was really a big, big deal. The community of Hayti comes to mind with Jim Marking being a coach. The Hayti Redbirds made four consecutive appearances between 1952 and 1955 which was very rare back in those days. Now Hayti is part of Hamlin County and the big show downs with Lake Norden are a thing of the past. What happened to those trophies? I think they are at Hamlin High School. It seems like when a school closes the trophy case is emptied and the contents are boxed up and forgotten. This is a shame as the trophy case often contained history.

Times are really changing, and to keep a community going is a major task and it affects state funding for grades K-12.
Some talked about living in Sioux Falls and having to pay money for kids in Faith SD. Is that fair? If you are a rancher with kids living near Faith, you would hope so and gladly take those SF bucks in order to get a good education for their youngsters.

I read in the Brookings Register about the legislature and their big challenges that they face this year. One is the funding to improve teacher salaries and the other is the increased funding for Medicaid. All of this will no doubt be discussed and voted on in weeks to come.

This world has never been fair, but somehow my heart comes down on the rural side. Some of these communities never had a chance to begin with but they are still there fighting for their lives.

Pretty sure the Hayti Redbirds history/trophies are in the museum on Main Street.

[ringthebells]

Re: Demographic Changes in South Dakota.

All the talk about education in the news lately reminds me of my neighbors lawn. The guy refused to water because it was too expensive. He did fertilize occasionally, but only in the spring. Most years his lawn would look great in the spring and early summer, but when it got hot in July and August it took its toll. In the spring when it rained again, his yard looked fine and the cycle continued for about 10 years. That last summer he lived by us the dry grass gave way to weeds and his lawn went to complete crap. When he went to sell his house, the curb appeal took its toll on the selling price.

Education is kind of that way. Teacher salaries have been high enough to attract enough people to the profession to fill most positions. Keeping them low has allowed the weeds to start to show through. In this case the weeds are surrounding states pulling educators to their schools. To get teacher salaries high enough to stop the weeds is going to cost a crap load of money. It was great to hear the governor address the issue, but when the 1/2 cent sales tax gets voted on, I highly doubt it passes. The end result is that we've ignored teacher pay for so long that it is going to have some major effects in the near future.

Maybe my analogy is way off, but it's what this situation reminds me of. My neighbor saving dimes ended up costing him thousands. The state ignoring an issue is going to cost the taxpayers millions. The issue is not going to go away and the longer you let it fester, the more damage will have to be undone.

[Nidaros]

Re: Demographic Changes in South Dakota.

Pretty sure the Hayti Redbirds history/trophies are in the museum on Main Street.

In the late 1970's had a niece who played for the Sioux Valley Cossacks and the game was played in Hayti? I saw the trophies then and I don't recall if that was Hamlin Co High School or not. So the trophies were moved to Main street. Thanks for the correction and thank you for taking the time to read this thread.

[Nidaros]

Re: Demographic Changes in South Dakota.

All the talk about education in the news lately reminds me of my neighbors lawn. The guy refused to water because it was too expensive. He did fertilize occasionally, but only in the spring. Most years his lawn would look great in the spring and early summer, but when it got hot in July and August it took its toll. In the spring when it rained again, his yard looked fine and the cycle continued for about 10 years. That last summer he lived by us the dry grass gave way to weeds and his lawn went to complete crap. When he went to sell his house, the curb appeal took its toll on the selling price.

Education is kind of that way. Teacher salaries have been high enough to attract enough people to the profession to fill most positions. Keeping them low has allowed the weeds to start to show through. In this case the weeds are surrounding states pulling educators to their schools. To get teacher salaries high enough to stop the weeds is going to cost a crap load of money. It was great to hear the governor address the issue, but when the 1/2 cent sales tax gets voted on, I highly doubt it passes. The end result is that we've ignored teacher pay for so long that it is going to have some major effects in the near future.

Maybe my analogy is way off, but it's what this situation reminds me of. My neighbor saving dimes ended up costing him thousands. The state ignoring an issue is going to cost the taxpayers millions. The issue is not going to go away and the longer you let it fester, the more damage will have to be undone.

No your analogies are not way off, but represent typical South Dakota thinking which at times seems way off base and short sighted. It took the Carr report show that South Dakota has such a low esteem of itself. Hopefully that is changing. We are good people who work/worked very hard to get what little we have. To short change education is wrong. I am about to email my feelings to Peggy Gibson who represents Arlington in the House of Representatives. Funny part, gerrymandering has made her now the representative of Kingsbury County, and she lives in Huron by the way.

[SF_Rabbit_Fan]

Re: Demographic Changes in South Dakota.

All the talk about education in the news lately reminds me of my neighbors lawn. The guy refused to water because it was too expensive. He did fertilize occasionally, but only in the spring. Most years his lawn would look great in the spring and early summer, but when it got hot in July and August it took its toll. In the spring when it rained again, his yard looked fine and the cycle continued for about 10 years. That last summer he lived by us the dry grass gave way to weeds and his lawn went to complete crap. When he went to sell his house, the curb appeal took its toll on the selling price.

Education is kind of that way. Teacher salaries have been high enough to attract enough people to the profession to fill most positions. Keeping them low has allowed the weeds to start to show through. In this case the weeds are surrounding states pulling educators to their schools. To get teacher salaries high enough to stop the weeds is going to cost a crap load of money. It was great to hear the governor address the issue, but when the 1/2 cent sales tax gets voted on, I highly doubt it passes. The end result is that we've ignored teacher pay for so long that it is going to have some major effects in the near future.

Maybe my analogy is way off, but it's what this situation reminds me of. My neighbor saving dimes ended up costing him thousands. The state ignoring an issue is going to cost the taxpayers millions. The issue is not going to go away and the longer you let it fester, the more damage will have to be undone.

I think it is a pretty decent analogy and probably pretty true.

[SF_Rabbit_Fan]

Re: Demographic Changes in South Dakota.

I would encourage everyone to read the blue ribbon task force report: http://blueribbon.sd.gov/Blue%20Ribb...0-%20Final.pdf

First, the official name of the task force is "Blue Ribbon Task Force on Teachers and Students."

Shouldn't that be "Students and Teachers." Its probably meaningless.

A few things that stood out to me, there is no talk of school closure or consolidation, save for a statement from the governor last March when he appointed task force members.

Improving the efficiency of the education system is mentioned throughout, but the only recommendation that will improve efficiency is a general statement about creating incentives for sharing services (which already exists).

The task force also discussed capital outlay (funds used to build new schools for 60 high school students). The amount of capital outlay spent per student in South Dakota exceeds the national average. This highlights the waste of having tiny schools minutes apart. Shockingly some task force members had the position that the state "should not attempt to repurpose any existing dollars in school budgets." Give us new money, but don't ask us tough questions about how existing money is being spent.

The majority of the report discusses the critical need to improve teacher pay and how SD's teacher pay compares to our neighbors and nationally - despite the task force's much broader mission.

[joeboo22]

Re: Demographic Changes in South Dakota.

I would encourage everyone to read the blue ribbon task force report: http://blueribbon.sd.gov/Blue%20Ribb...0-%20Final.pdf

First, the official name of the task force is "Blue Ribbon Task Force on Teachers and Students."

Shouldn't that be "Students and Teachers." Its probably meaningless.

A few things that stood out to me, there is no talk of school closure or consolidation, save for a statement from the governor last March when he appointed task force members.

Improving the efficiency of the education system is mentioned throughout, but the only recommendation that will improve efficiency is a general statement about creating incentives for sharing services (which already exists).

The task force also discussed capital outlay (funds used to build new schools for 60 high school students). The amount of capital outlay spent per student in South Dakota exceeds the national average. This highlights the waste of having tiny schools minutes apart. Shockingly some task force members had the position that the state "should not attempt to repurpose any existing dollars in school budgets." Give us new money, but don't ask us tough questions about how existing money is being spent.

The majority of the report discusses the critical need to improve teacher pay and how SD's teacher pay compares to our neighbors and nationally - despite the task force's much broader mission.

I've read the taskforce, it seemed weak for me. That is my opinion. 1/2 cent sales tax? Haven't they tried to pass sales taxes before?

School Districts building new schools has been an argument for years on why not to increase teacher pay. I'm not going to disagree with that, but at the same time I feel its easy for someone who is not part of the school to say, yeah close the school down. Its different when its your kids.

There does need to be more teacher/staff sharing. The Education Coops share SPED area teachers among the districts, why can't they do that with foreign languages, with CTE classes, make education better.

So essentially what I think needs to be done is, 1st- SOMETHING, but focus on making the end product education better, and maybe the rest will figure itself out.