Sioux Falls Event Center

[zooropa]

Re: Sioux Falls Event Center

I would hope that most reasonable people would agree that a new Events Center would be good for Sioux Falls regardless of the site

That has not been true of the convention center, and that's why you are seeing this "I'll take my ball and go home" attitude. The city has been down this road once before, and a lot of people resent how it turned out.

Plopping a 12,000 seat venue in a veritable sea of blacktop and expecting good things to happen is just........ well, it's been tried once before, and it didn't work.

If the Arena plan contained an extensive program to redevelop that area, to improve the quality of businesses along Burnside and Madison, to add to public green space in the area, to streetscape the West Sioux neighborhood and create a sense of place there, I could go along with that. I like West Sioux, and I drive through it often. A plan that involved creating an Arena 'neighborhood' could work. There's no reason why Sioux Falls can't have 'places' outside of downtown (cf uptown Minneapolis, Victoria Crossing in St. Paul).

However, that's not the alternative to the downtown events center.

The alternative is a big ol' building that will require demolition of things that help make that neighborhood unique--and it's being pitched based on PRICE, not on VALUE.

[jackrabit1]

Re: Sioux Falls Event Center

Call it what you will, Zoo... it still comes across as a temper tantrum.

[KUlawJack]

Re: Sioux Falls Event Center

I would hope that most reasonable people would agree that a new Events Center would be good for Sioux Falls regardless of the site,and that there will be new developement regardless of the site. What bothers me are the people who stick out their lower lip and say they are going to take their bat and ball and go home (and even campaign against it) if it isn't built where they would prefer. It seems to me that they have interests other than the growth of the city as a whole. There will never be a new facility built anywhere if these factions cannot pull together for the greater good of Sioux Falls.

I have no personal financial gain involved with this. Your mischaracterization of everyone that backs an event center downtown is flat-out wrong. I am very interested in the growth of the city as a whole. I just see DT as the much better location for this facility given the plans that have been offered. Why would I vote for something that I don't think is a good idea? If I could look into the future, things might be different, but I have to go off what is offered and DT is heads above the rest for me. If the Mayor comes through with a plan like the one Zooropa describes, which I doubt will happen, you'd see a lot more people willing to back him, including me. As Zooropa previously mentioned, a contingent of people involved with the convention center when that process took place think building out there again, as is, is a horrible idea.

On another note, I go to events like those that will be held at the event center for the overall experience, which includes what happens during and after. Maybe some don't. And that's cool.

[UWMandSDSU]

Re: Sioux Falls Event Center

I am in the camp of "I just want one built". I am going to go to events in an event center based on the inside of the building, not the outside. Again I would have voted for it if it the city council has recommended the downtown site.

[zooropa]

Re: Sioux Falls Event Center

Call it what you will, Zoo... it still comes across as a temper tantrum.

It is what it is.

I didn't drive 2 hours up and back to Brookings and drop $40+ on any WBB games this past winter because I didn't trust the team. I'm not going to spend that kind of money and not care about the quality of product I'm buying.

The location debate can be framed the exact same way: "I'm not going to spend money with no regard for the quality of product."

If it comes across as being narrow minded and childish, it's at least a narrow-minded and childish attitude that is supported by the consultants.

[UWMandSDSU]

Re: Sioux Falls Event Center

It is what it is.

I didn't drive 2 hours up and back to Brookings and drop $40+ on any WBB games this past winter because I didn't trust the team. I'm not going to spend that kind of money and not care about the quality of product I'm buying.

And how did that turn out (WBB team)?

[zooropa]

Re: Sioux Falls Event Center

Better than expected, but not great.

BTW: I did go to the championship game.

And, once again, is there any rational basis to believe that building another giant structure surrounded by asphalt will work out better than the last asphalt surrounded giant structure that the city built?

[KUlawJack]

Re: Sioux Falls Event Center

Call it what you will, Zoo... it still comes across as a temper tantrum.

Because he disagrees with you, you think its a temper tantrum? Sounds like Washington, D.C.

[zooropa]

Re: Sioux Falls Event Center

I don't know that anyone accused me of having a 'taking my ball and going home' attitude.

Admittedly, some of the BID people come across as a bit petulant when stating their case.

But that's not a valid critique of the underlying argument--nor is it a valid critique of those who share that opinion but express themselves differently.

[joeboo22]

Re: Sioux Falls Event Center

I think the debate is old. I think its one of those debates that will go around in circles. The current site people say there is no parking, while the BID people say that nothing is out there now and therefore won't be when another concrete structure is built. Personally I think its hard to argue that the parking would not be an issue downtown. Is there parking? No doubt but its comprised of many small parking units, roadside parking and parking ramps. And to those 3-500 that will show up to 90% of the events I don't think it would be an issue for them to find parking. But for the guy that comes to 1-5 events is he going to know where it is best to park, how to get there an so on. And I don't buy the its free after 6, it may be now but any private ramp or parking lot will charge if there is an arena down there.

Now to the nothing has developed out by the current site. I don't know if I fully buy that, there is things in the area, its not like everything is vacant. I'd also argue that the vast growth Sioux Falls has had has occurred over the past 10-15 years, the same period where people have been arguing over where to place an events center.

Now the rest of the arguments are over the studies that have been performed. The big one is flat floor space, well I don't know if there will be that many conventions but I will tell you this its best to have 1 big facility then 2-3 smaller ones.

Most of the BID people have good points however many of them fail to see the good points to the current site. If there was better parking, better roads and more area, and more money to build a large complex downtown then I'd be all for it. But the parking is not there, the roads are not there, and the area to build a large complex is not there. And its going to be tough enough to get the 100-120 million for the events center which would cost more downtown.

The other argument is over who supports downtown who supports current site. Well the few polls I've seen seem to support the current site. Now I'm not saying they are acurate or creditable but I believe that if the BID people had a poll (scientific) that showed that there was support downtown they'd release one I haven't seen one.

Maybe Sioux Falls should just back the current site and get it built because the longer you wait the more events you will continue to lose. And once you lose an event its a lot harder to get it back.

[zooropa]

Re: Sioux Falls Event Center

The current site people say there is no parking

Parking will be an issue at the Arena site too. The current proposals will be skating the thin edge for a full Events Center--and you can forget about a concert + Skyforce game.

I don't know if I fully buy that, there is things in the area

Economically unstable things. Aside from BWW, Jono's and a handful of motels no entertainment/lodging venue has avoided either a change in ownership or a change in franchise or both since the convention center was constructed. It's a marginal environment at best. And that's ESTABLISHED businesses. Businesses that were there when the convention center was built.

The convention center hasn't even brought stability to businesses that provide services to convention goers that were in existence WHEN THE CENTER WAS BUILT.

The big one is flat floor space, well I don't know if there will be that many conventions but I will tell you this its best to have 1 big facility then 2-3 smaller ones.

Maybe Sioux Falls should just back the current site and get it built because the longer you wait the more events you will continue to lose. And once you lose an event its a lot harder to get it back.

They can't get events to fill the CURRENT space, how is it even remotely conceivable that they are missing out on LARGER events? Think about it: The convention center is woefully underutilized and the solution is to make it bigger? How does that even compute?

[mango4]

Re: Sioux Falls Event Center

Just get the thing built. Am I going to drive the extra mile and a half after driving three hours to get there? You bet, it's a mile and a half. I don't understand why people think it needs to be right on the interstate.

Just get it built.

[propar80]

Re: Sioux Falls Event Center

Fairly inclined to be on the side of KUJack and Zoo...if only based on the fact that Stu's so against DT.
http://www.argusleader.com/apps/pbcs...7-9f862960f2c8

I actually feel dirty posting his drivel on this site, considering it just goes to feed his fat-ass ego. But, it does add to this debate, which I like this time of year!!

DT guy myself and have been since I moved to SF from "larger" cities 6 years ago. I just got so tired of arguing my point about DT and a events center since I moved here...to be honest...I gave up, because, IMO I was definitely in the minority, it would never get voted in DT.
I will begrudingly vote "yes" for the events center at the arena site and hope for it's success, but I will have a hard time "rallying" my friends to vote for it like I probably would've the DT site. Zoo is spot-on in his assessment of the BID people having more "passion" than the Arena people. My guess is that the Arena backers will now just sit back and "hope" it gets voted in while the BID folks I guarantee would spend some of they're own money in commercials/etc. getting the younger folks out to vote for it to at least give it a chance.
IMO, SF screwed itself when it decided to build the convention center next to the arena instead of doing the whole thing DT, however many years ago. Also, IMO when this comes to a vote, I have a feeling it will get voted down and guess who will be to blame. BID folks, when in reality it would be the Arena backers fault because they just sat back and figured..."well now that we've picked the spot that "everybody" likes, it will pass for sure!!".

And BTW...If I hear the driving arguement one more time, I might throw up in my mouth...again. Please Arena supporters/Out of towners, bring SOMETHING/ANYTHING else to the argument. And BTW...I'm from a small-town and my parents still live there. They don't like the idea of a DT events center...guess why...parking and driving....and as a SF resident...I don't give a s#$t...and they're my parents!! And guess what...if our hometown HS team made the HS State Championship and they were held in SF...at a DT Events Center...I promise, they'd figure DT out, and hey maybe even like it.

Go Jacks!!

[jackrabit1]

Re: Sioux Falls Event Center

Pro, I know what you mean about the columnist that shall not be named... and he's a colleague!

But my position is more pragmatic. Right now there's a lot of people who are afraid that this is going to be a waste of money. And I think the way you win some of these folks over is by choosing a site that is more fiscally easier to swallow.

I want to point out two things.

1) The land at the Arena site is already owned by the city. In other words, they won't have to worry about negotiating with private landowners downtown who will more than likely charge a premium for some pretty choice real estate. So you save money there.

2) The infrastructure is already in place at the Arena site. You have West Avenue, Western Aveune, and Russel, each at least a 4-lane road (or soon will be). If you build downtown, I'm afraid the infrastructure costs are going to be so costly, that people will vote down the proposal because of the added cost.

I want to see this thing built... but at the same time, it's a game of public opinion. Would a downtown center be nice? Of course! But at the same time, one has to be pragmatic, especially when you're trying to convince people to pay more taxes for this location. If you can sell the idea that the City is being cost-effective on this thing, enough people may be swayed to vote for this thing and we can have a decent place to host the Summit League tournament for the next 40 years!

The folks in Sioux Falls have p***y-footed with this thing for 10 years. And as a result, this is probably one of the last chances to get this built. Otherwise, construction and material costs are going to continue to rise and the thing will no longer be feasable to build.

[91jack]

Re: Sioux Falls Event Center

I really don't know quite enough about the downtown area but a few things keep getting repeated.
There is so much more to do downtown but yet there still is as much parking. How many parking ramps do they have? A flat open piece of land should have more space than a river, buildings, etc... If they build it downtown will they take many of the parking places or is this all assuming that they will get the railroad land? Are we talking within 1 mile or how far from the proposed site?
I think if it gets voted down it should be both parties fault. The arena people aren't pushing it but the downtown people are publically shooting it down. When you publically go against something you should take some of the blame.
I will go to the Summit League tourney whereever it is built. Other than that, I probably won't go there for much.
The site that was chosen was the arena site. Most of the talk I hear makes it sound like it will get voted down. I almost want the Summit League Tourney to go somewhere else so maybe the people of SF will either decide to build one somewhere or lose millions of dollars.
To me it sounds like the downtown people want the money spent downtown. Some people might just jump on the interstate and leave but others could jump on the interstate and go to the mall or go out to eat. You will get more money spent downtown with that site but you probably will get less money spent in other parts of town. If I kill a couple hours downtown, I won't know time to go anywhere else in town.