More higher education cuts?

[TransAmBison]

Re: More higher education cuts?

Mods, please please don't let us get like Bisonville.

Jealousy will get you no where. I mean that in the most sincerest form. Really, I do.

Sorry...my last non-serious post in this thread.

[JimmyJack]

Re: More higher education cuts?

This was a good discussion while it lasted.

I think we've probably said all that can be said on this one until we know more about what the Legislature is going to do. Again, whatever your thoughts on the budget issues, let your legislators know what you're thinking.

[Nidaros]

Re: More higher education cuts?

I think we can get a better idea on where the budget cuts are going. Here is an article in the Madison Daily Leader.

http://madisonet.com/site/news.cfm?n...d=181987&rfi=6

In the same edition is another article by Senator Faragen a Democrat. Truly, a minority view, but the majority view, namely the governnor's has support so said Majority leader Chuck Olsen.


http://madisonet.com/site/news.cfm?n...d=181987&rfi=6

Also watched Free Speech TV last night. They had a documentry on the 2010 elections. Part of it centered on Nevada, where one legislator felt govenment had not been cut enough after cutting the Nevada state budget by 50 per cent in 2010. Also Nevada has no income or corporate tax. So if everyone can get by without these services, then I suspect the right people have been elected.

[SDSUAlum08]

Re: More higher education cuts?

I think we can get a better idea on where the budget cuts are going. Here is an article in the Madison Daily Leader.

http://madisonet.com/site/news.cfm?n...d=181987&rfi=6

In the same edition is another article by Senator Faragen a Democrat. Truly, a minority view, but the majority view, namely the governnor's has support so said Majority leader Chuck Olsen.


http://madisonet.com/site/news.cfm?n...d=181987&rfi=6

Also watched Free Speech TV last night. They had a documentry on the 2010 elections. Part of it centered on Nevada, where one legislator felt govenment had not been cut enough after cutting the Nevada state budget by 50 per cent in 2010. Also Nevada has no income or corporate tax. So if everyone can get by without these services, then I suspect the right people have been elected.

Do they get their money from all the gambling money though?

[Nidaros]

Re: More higher education cuts?

Do they get their money from all the gambling money though?

Yes they do something like nearly 900 million from the state gaming association. This same website shows SD got close to 16 million from gaming revenue. Gaming revenue is not what its cracked up to be.

http://www.americangaming.org/Indust....cfm?stateid=9

Las Vegas and Reno saw the same downturn in revenues in at the end of 2008 that every one else saw so with down turns in revenues and existing budgets and obligations, the fifty per cent cut was enacted to balance it out. I thought 50 per cent was pretty steep, but may have been necessary to balance the budget.

[RabbitinTea]

Re: More higher education cuts?

It appears most of this topic has been covered already, but I thought I'd throw in my 2 cents. First, I'm very concerned about cuts to K-12 and to higher education. We need to continue to invest in education or suffer the consequences. I would support discussing tough topics like consolidating schools at the K-12 level and also for higher education. Anyone who knows me has heard my rant about the number of campuses that we're supporting and the proximity of the schools as well. To me, DSU should be a slam dunk given their proximity to Brookings. What programs do they have that we couldn't easily adapt to our campus? SDSU's Computer Science program is far superior to the DSU's in relation to strictly writing code. Students from SDSU get way more depth in programming over their bachelor's. DSU's program offers a wider array of skills, however, and that's what makes it unique. SDSU could easily adapt this into the program and continue to offer both options. I think this makes perfect sense. DSU has also started to offer many more options in Healthcare, specifically in Information Technology. These programs would fit in well with our Pharmacy and Nursing and would be a great addition. I really think there's too much overlap with administration overhead and the money that it takes to keep their campus open. The few things that SDSU doesn't offer could very easily be added very nicely. This option needs to be considered. If this was the type of "cut" that the Governor proposed, then I would support it. I cannot support the idea behind stifling top performing departments in our state for the sake of it being "fair". If we can't trim from the inefficiences and underperformers, then let's just raise the taxes.

And FOR GOD'S SAKE, if we cut K-12 funding then don't whine when our students aren't performing in the classroom. You can't have it both ways.

Just a few of my thoughts...

[SDSUAlum08]

Re: More higher education cuts?

It appears most of this topic has been covered already, but I thought I'd throw in my 2 cents. First, I'm very concerned about cuts to K-12 and to higher education. We need to continue to invest in education or suffer the consequences. I would support discussing tough topics like consolidating schools at the K-12 level and also for higher education. Anyone who knows me has heard my rant about the number of campuses that we're supporting and the proximity of the schools as well. To me, DSU should be a slam dunk given their proximity to Brookings. What programs do they have that we couldn't easily adapt to our campus? SDSU's Computer Science program is far superior to the DSU's in relation to strictly writing code. Students from SDSU get way more depth in programming over their bachelor's. DSU's program offers a wider array of skills, however, and that's what makes it unique. SDSU could easily adapt this into the program and continue to offer both options. I think this makes perfect sense. DSU has also started to offer many more options in Healthcare, specifically in Information Technology. These programs would fit in well with our Pharmacy and Nursing and would be a great addition. I really think there's too much overlap with administration overhead and the money that it takes to keep their campus open. The few things that SDSU doesn't offer could very easily be added very nicely. This option needs to be considered. If this was the type of "cut" that the Governor proposed, then I would support it. I cannot support the idea behind stifling top performing departments in our state for the sake of it being "fair". If we can't trim from the inefficiences and underperformers, then let's just raise the taxes.

And FOR GOD'S SAKE, if we cut K-12 funding then don't whine when our students aren't performing in the classroom. You can't have it both ways.

Just a few of my thoughts...

I agree with all of this. But I really liked the bolded part.

[Prairiehaas]

Re: More higher education cuts?

Family and friends in MN, IA, CO and especially AZ smile over the angst in SD regarding the $100 - $150 mil deficit. They see it as not a large problem, as compared to what their states are facing.

IMO opinion they are correct in their veiw. SD is in the top 20 among states in terms of disposable income according the the Census Bureau. The State is run very efficiently, expenditures per capita in the bottom 10 among states (thank you to the prior administations). The solutions should not be that difficult and an across the board cut isn't the correct solution, nor is an income tax the solution.

Example, I just registered three Hondas for less than $150. In most states you can't register one at that cost. With just over 900,000 vehicles in the state a $50 increase would yield $45 mil. Not a drop in the bucket.

Point being, we may be paying too little for government services (in the example above, roads) that are being provided in a very efficient manner. This is one Republican that thinks the State should not be providing those services for less than cost. I'm not talking about raising taxes to redistribute. I think though we need to take a look at paying fairly for services while keeping waste at a minimum.

[Nidaros]

Re: More higher education cuts?

It appears most of this topic has been covered already, but I thought I'd throw in my 2 cents. First, I'm very concerned about cuts to K-12 and to higher education. We need to continue to invest in education or suffer the consequences. I would support discussing tough topics like consolidating schools at the K-12 level and also for higher education. Anyone who knows me has heard my rant about the number of campuses that we're supporting and the proximity of the schools as well. To me, DSU should be a slam dunk given their proximity to Brookings. What programs do they have that we couldn't easily adapt to our campus? SDSU's Computer Science program is far superior to the DSU's in relation to strictly writing code. Students from SDSU get way more depth in programming over their bachelor's. DSU's program offers a wider array of skills, however, and that's what makes it unique. SDSU could easily adapt this into the program and continue to offer both options. I think this makes perfect sense. DSU has also started to offer many more options in Healthcare, specifically in Information Technology. These programs would fit in well with our Pharmacy and Nursing and would be a great addition. I really think there's too much overlap with administration overhead and the money that it takes to keep their campus open. The few things that SDSU doesn't offer could very easily be added very nicely. This option needs to be considered. If this was the type of "cut" that the Governor proposed, then I would support it. I cannot support the idea behind stifling top performing departments in our state for the sake of it being "fair". If we can't trim from the inefficiences and underperformers, then let's just raise the taxes.

And FOR GOD'S SAKE, if we cut K-12 funding then don't whine when our students aren't performing in the classroom. You can't have it both ways.

Just a few of my thoughts...

You have presented the best case so far for consolidation of SDSU-DSU, and I share your concern about K-12 funding. I was just re-reading the report on the Arlington School Board Meeting in January in the Arlington Sun. This meeting took place before Gov Daugaard budget announcement. There is concern already since the report indicated that they had eliminated seven or eight teacher positions already over the last few years and there is not much more to be cut, and they have cash reserves that could be depleted in two years. Seems like this current year they would be okay but after that and the following years, they will be having problems. My property tax for the coming year arrived in the mail and it was only 150 bucks higher than last year. I expect more shocking mail next year.

I heard on KYSF tonight the even Sioux Falls is having an open forum tommorrow night on this same topic.

Prairie Haas mention of increasing registration fees seems like a workable idea. I would hope the legislature would look at those issues as well. The gaming revenue has turned out to be much less than what everyone thought so that is not a reliable source and might have created costs that where not there before gaming was instituted in South Dakota. ( We have people locked up due to compulsive gambling problems with unpaid restitutions)

[SF_Rabbit_Fan]

Re: More higher education cuts?

It appears most of this topic has been covered already, but I thought I'd throw in my 2 cents. First, I'm very concerned about cuts to K-12 and to higher education. We need to continue to invest in education or suffer the consequences. I would support discussing tough topics like consolidating schools at the K-12 level and also for higher education.

Should we consolidate a school like Tea?

I think you will find a lot of people agree with the idea of consolidating schools (including myself), but they want to consolidate someone else's district.

Anyone who knows me has heard my rant about the number of campuses that we're supporting and the proximity of the schools as well. To me, DSU should be a slam dunk given their proximity to Brookings.

One of the most vocal (and best) arguments I've heard against cutting secondary education funding is the direct and indirect benefits to the general population.

Should we only consider proximity, or should we consider the direct and indirect benefits to the population of Madison and the surrounding communities? Madison is the 13th largest city in South Dakota, and appears to be thriving whenever I drive through. Taking the college away from that town would essentially kill it.

What programs do they have that we couldn't easily adapt to our campus? SDSU's Computer Science program is far superior to the DSU's in relation to strictly writing code. Students from SDSU get way more depth in programming over their bachelor's. DSU's program offers a wider array of skills, however, and that's what makes it unique. SDSU could easily adapt this into the program and continue to offer both options. I think this makes perfect sense.

How do you know that SDSU's program is far superior? How do you know students get more depth in programming? I've known some very, very good programmers that graduated from DSU.

If SDSU could easily adapt DSU's wider array of skills into their current programs, why hasn't it already been done? To many, this would indicate an inefficiency of a larger institution.

DSU has also started to offer many more options in Healthcare, specifically in Information Technology. These programs would fit in well with our Pharmacy and Nursing and would be a great addition.

This doesn't make any sense to me. How does information technology fit in well with Pharmacy and Nursing?

I really think there's too much overlap with administration overhead and the money that it takes to keep their campus open. The few things that SDSU doesn't offer could very easily be added very nicely. This option needs to be considered. If this was the type of "cut" that the Governor proposed, then I would support it. I cannot support the idea behind stifling top performing departments in our state for the sake of it being "fair". If we can't trim from the inefficiences and underperformers, then let's just raise the taxes.

And FOR GOD'S SAKE, if we cut K-12 funding then don't whine when our students aren't performing in the classroom. You can't have it both ways.

Just a few of my thoughts...

I agree that there is overlap with administration and no doubt some money could be saved by closing the school.

How do we know which departments are top performers and which are inefficient?

[SF_Rabbit_Fan]

Re: More higher education cuts?

Family and friends in MN, IA, CO and especially AZ smile over the angst in SD regarding the $100 - $150 mil deficit. They see it as not a large problem, as compared to what their states are facing.

IMO opinion they are correct in their veiw. SD is in the top 20 among states in terms of disposable income according the the Census Bureau. The State is run very efficiently, expenditures per capita in the bottom 10 among states (thank you to the prior administations). The solutions should not be that difficult and an across the board cut isn't the correct solution, nor is an income tax the solution.

Example, I just registered three Hondas for less than $150. In most states you can't register one at that cost. With just over 900,000 vehicles in the state a $50 increase would yield $45 mil. Not a drop in the bucket.

Point being, we may be paying too little for government services (in the example above, roads) that are being provided in a very efficient manner. This is one Republican that thinks the State should not be providing those services for less than cost. I'm not talking about raising taxes to redistribute. I think though we need to take a look at paying fairly for services while keeping waste at a minimum.

I agree with this sentiment.

[SF_Rabbit_Fan]

Re: More higher education cuts?

Here is another question that has sort of bothered me:

Why did we build a new campus in Sioux Falls, then close the school for the Deaf? Why not use the existing buildings instead of wasting money on a shiny new one?

[Yote53]

Re: More higher education cuts?

I just emailed the Governor and encourage everyone to do the same. I think we're all pretty much in agreement here that higher education shouldn't be facing such drastic cuts.

Let your voice be heard.

[JimmyJack]

Re: More higher education cuts?

I just emailed the Governor and encourage everyone to do the same. I think we're all pretty much in agreement here that higher education shouldn't be facing such drastic cuts.

Let your voice be heard.

Don't forget to email your legislators. In my experience (I covered several sessions of the SD and ND legislatures) a stack of messages from constituents can be very influential.

[jackrabbit1979]

Re: More higher education cuts?

I hate to speak for RabbitinTea, but I'd love the chance to take a stab at some of your questions

Should we consolidate a school like Tea?

I think you will find a lot of people agree with the idea of consolidating schools (including myself), but they want to consolidate someone else's district.

I'm pretty sure, okay, I'm positive that he wasn't talking about consolidating growing districts like Tea, Belle Fourche, or even Brookings for that matter. That is just a dumb comparison. But the state probably could do well looking at consolidation options for schools like (and I'm just using examples) Grant Deuel, Herried, or others. Take a look at the article in the Argus this past weekend, there are a number of schools (I quickly counted 15) with 10 or less students enrolled at the first grade level. Does it make sense to keep a school open when they are educating ten kids per grade level?

http://www.argusleader.com/article/2...311/-1/archive

One of the most vocal (and best) arguments I've heard against cutting secondary education funding is the direct and indirect benefits to the general population.

Should we only consider proximity, or should we consider the direct and indirect benefits to the population of Madison and the surrounding communities? Madison is the 13th largest city in South Dakota, and appears to be thriving whenever I drive through. Taking the college away from that town would essentially kill it.

None of the choices being made are easy. I don't know if I would necessarily say Madison or DSU is thriving, although it would be hard to see either go away or shrink.

How do you know that SDSU's program is far superior? How do you know students get more depth in programming? I've known some very, very good programmers that graduated from DSU.

It is possible for somebody to know what is taught in both programs, right? Especially somebody that might work in the Computer or Info Tech industry, and have direct experience within both programs. I'm sure DSU does turn out some quality grads - all SD Public Universities do - RabbitinTea wasn't saying they didn't. He was saying that the program at SDSU provides it's students the opportunities to do even better.

If SDSU could easily adapt DSU's wider array of skills into their current programs, why hasn't it already been done? To many, this would indicate an inefficiency of a larger institution.

I would venture to guess that the BOR won't let SDSU - something about duplication of programs and/or subjects within their system. DSU has been anoited the tech friendly university in the system (some would say for good reason, they needed a niche and cashed in on that one). Same reason you can get an early childhood education degree and a secondary education degree from SDSU - allowing you teach school aged kids up until 2nd grade and from 6th grade on - but you can't complete an Elementry Education degree in Brookings giving you certification for those missing levels.

This doesn't make any sense to me. How does information technology fit in well with Pharmacy and Nursing?

I can think one good reason - so the Pharmacy and Nursing students that SDSU are training are self sufficient enough in the area of health care information technology that they don't need to contact an IT person everytime they are asked to work with it. I'm sure that both of those programs at SDSU weave that into their curriculum already, but having the programs on the same campus seems like a win/win. The more integration of the these programs the better - it only seems to make sense to me.

I agree that there is overlap with administration and no doubt some money could be saved by closing the school.

How do we know which departments are top performers and which are inefficient?

If there isn't a way to know already, we are in worse shape than we think. Graduation rates, enrollments, demand by prospective students, student/faculty satisfaction surverys, placement rates, starting salaries, demand for graduates, industry satisfaction with graduates, etc. The review of these factors is already happening on campuses across the system I would hope.