Sioux Falls Games

[JACKGUYII]

I think just about everything about the Cal Davis game that can be said has been said. I thought it was a very entertaining game and felt the crowd was into it standing on all the big third down and fourth down defensive stands. I thought at times it was louder than at Coughlin. Was it the same kind of atmposhere as Coughin NO but I think it's a good start when you consider it was our first neutral site for our football program. I not going to make excuses but I think some other factors that maybe resulted in less attendence from the sports enthusiast in Sioux Falls include:

University of Sioux Falls had their homecoming game after the Jacks at Howard Wood Field against rival Northwestern and drew almost 8,000.
Jacks mediocre record of 2-3 might have kept people away.
I talked to a number of non Jacks fans who were not planning on attending that knew about the game but weren't sure about the time etc. I think we need to hammer the marketing even harder. Many of these people site the fact they are more interested in Jacks Basketball at the DI level than football. Whether we like it or not we are still perceived as a Basketball oriented athletic program.
I thought the student turnout was pathetic. I guess the holiday 3 day weekend didn't help. Would USD supporters from the Sioux Falls area have come to the Jacks game if they didn't have a home game and D'Days? We might have gotten a few of those folks from a curiousity factor. I think if the game would have been played against a regional DIAA team like UNI we would have seen a large visting contingent which with UCD we got none.
For those USD supporters who want to compare the Augie game the week before try taking your program to a neutral site against an opponent not known in this area and see if you could top 7,000! I think the future is very bright and I hear a game in Rapid City is a possibility. I still will take our Brookings venues any day.

[jackmd]

Re: Sioux Falls Games

I think just about everything about the Cal Davis game that can be said has been said. I thought it was a very entertaining game and felt the crowd was into it standing on all the big third down and fourth down defensive stands. I thought at times it was louder than at Coughlin. Was it the same kind of atmposhere as Coughin NO but I think it's a good start when you consider it was our first neutral site for our football program. I not going to make excuses but I think some other factors that maybe resulted in less attendence from the sports enthusiast in Sioux Falls include:

University of Sioux Falls had their homecoming game after the Jacks at Howard Wood Field against rival Northwestern and drew almost 8,000.
Jacks mediocre record of 2-3 might have kept people away.
I talked to a number of non Jacks fans who were not planning on attending that knew about the game but weren't sure about the time etc. I think we need to hammer the marketing even harder. Many of these people site the fact they are more interested in Jacks Basketball at the DI level than football. Whether we like it or not we are still perceived as a Basketball oriented athletic program.
I thought the student turnout was pathetic. I guess the holiday 3 day weekend didn't help. Would USD supporters from the Sioux Falls area have come to the Jacks game if they didn't have a home game and D'Days? We might have gotten a few of those folks from a curiousity factor. I think if the game would have been played against a regional DIAA team like UNI we would have seen a large visting contingent which with UCD we got none.
For those USD supporters who want to compare the Augie game the week before try taking your program to a neutral site against an opponent not known in this area and see if you could top 7,000! I think the future is very bright and I hear a game in Rapid City is a possibility. I still will take our Brookings venues any day.  

I stayed at the Sheraton Saturday night and wandered over to Howard Wood that evening.  The crowd in the stands was no more than half of what there was at the Jacks game!!!  If USF is reporting nearly 8,000 than using their numbers, we drew close to 15,000.  

[Rabbit_FB_Alum]

Re: Sioux Falls Games

I live in Sioux Falls and I did not go to the game. A small reason was that I was busy, but the biggest reason was I just didn't want to go to a game at Howard Wood. When I think of that stadium I think second class, and I think of High School football and Augie. None of these are things I want associated with the Jacks. To me, Brookings and CAS are just as big a part of Jackrabbit football as the blue and yellow jerseys are. If they have another game in Sioux Falls will I go? I MIGHT. But I would much rather drive up to Brookings to see my Rabbits playing on their home turf, not at the second rate home field of a second rate former oponent.

[filbert]

Re: Sioux Falls Games

Two things have to happen, I think.

1) Upgrade SDSU's marketing effort to a big-time, D-I level. I don't think there's any argument that Jackrabbit Athletics could be promoted much more widely, effectively, and efficiently than it is. It's part of the old saying, you have to spend money to make money.

2) End all USD-vs-SDSU smack-like talk. Celebrate Coyote successes at their level and encourage them to celebrate SDSU's successes in D-I. This supports point #1 in that we need to broaden our marketing appeal to Coyote fans, as well as Augie, USF, Northern, SD Tech, and all other in-state sports fans.

Discussion:
Casual college sports fans in the area need to be sold on SDSU's D-I game. This will take competitive games aganst first-rate opponents, competent and aggressive marketing, and consistency over time.

SDSU is for better or worse perceived as a "basketball school" and it will take several years of significant success by the football team on the field, as well as a first-class marketing effort by SDSU to change that perception. Nothing else will do it.

SDSU needs to get some Jacks games on TV, period. They need to go to KELO, KSFY, KDLT, or KTTW and get selected games telecast. The NDSU games would be the first most obvious candidates, as would the away games against the major powers we play in basketball (that aren't already televised, heh heh heh). This is what D-I programs do--they get coverage, and a lot of it.

Failing a deal with one of the big four Sioux Falls stations, getting on KWSB and KWBH--Sioux Falls' and Rapid City's WB channels,(owned by the same company and piping that game to cable systems throughout the state would be a start). However we do it, getting games on TV needs to be a priority--away games first, and then select home games.

There's no sense alienating area sports fans for no reason, and right now, there's simply no reason to engage in smack with USD fans. They say "our team could beat yours" and we should say "maybe so, too bad we'll never know, you're having a great season." This changes of course if USD ever goes D-I, but for now, that's how I see it.

Dedicated and committed fans of USD will remain USD fans, and they should--that's what makes college athletics great. They need to be reassured that being a USD fan as well as an SDSU fan are no longer contradictory positions. From SDSU's point of view, they shouldn't be seen as rivals, but as potential fans to be won over.

(I just noticed that this was my 1,000th post. It had to be a marketing paper, of course . . . )

[Mike_H]

Re: Sioux Falls Games

The "official" number for USF is 6821. That includes tickets "sold", and does not reflect actual attendance.

Filbert brings up some great points. This goes back to some discussions that took place almost a year ago. SDSU needs to market to folks who might go to USD games, Augie games, and USF games in addition to those that would attend the Skyforce, Stampede, Storm, and other sporting events. The "it's D1" argument just won't get it done. People in Sioux Falls have a lot of choices when it comes to their sports dollars. This is not even something that NDSU has to deal with. It is a situation that is unique to the fact that SDSU is located in Brookings, SD. The question becomes:"How much do we want to spend on marketing a product that is not yet up to speed". Would you rather spend the money on scholarships or TV time? It is a fine line that the marketing department is walking.

[OK_Jackrabbit]

Re: Sioux Falls Games

Two things have to happen, I think.

1) Upgrade SDSU's marketing effort to a big-time, D-I level.  I don't think there's any argument that Jackrabbit Athletics could be promoted much more widely, effectively, and efficiently than it is.  It's part of the old saying, you have to spend money to make money.

2)  End all USD-vs-SDSU smack-like talk.  Celebrate Coyote successes at their level and encourage them to celebrate SDSU's successes in D-I.  This supports point #1 in that we need to broaden our marketing appeal to Coyote fans, as well as Augie, USF, Northern, SD Tech, and all other in-state sports fans.  

SDSU needs to get some Jacks games on TV, period.

I'm not sure the marketing was such a failure here. You get 7,500 on a neutral field on a weekend where the students have gone home and against an opponent that brings along 15 fans and a 40-member band that arrives five minutes before the game. And you're playing in one seriously crappy stadium (Rabbit_FB_Alum is right on.) So 7,500 is not so bad, I think.

I worry when people start suggesting more marketing as an answer, because I'm not sure what the question is. Filbert's argument in favor of marketing is sound, of course, but marketing is expensive. And I don't see much of a long-term payoff from getting 2,500 more fans at the game. I guarantee you would have spent more to get them there than their tickets brought in. Would a few more fans at the game really build something long-term? I think success on the field over time is the best way to do that. If the question is: Wouldn't it have been nice to have 10,000 fans there? The answer might be more spending on marketing. If the question is: How do we build a base of fans for the long run? I'm not sure marketing is the right strategy yet.

So I'm more interested in something I saw someplace on this forum a couple of days ago. Did Stig say we'll be at 57 scholarships next year? If that's right, we'll be having more success pretty quickly. And that will draw fans to the program. For now, I'm glad they're spending money to add scholarships. If I remember correctly, once we're above 55, we can schedule a 1A team. Is that right? A couple of those kinds of paydays might allow more spending on marketing.

And don't forget, adding scholarships does more than just make the Jacks a better team, it gives more student athletes more support to get an education. I think that's a better expenditure right now than marketing. Once all of those foundational things are in place, then maybe there'll be money to sell what will be a very good program to some of the disbelievers out there.

[SDSUFAN]

Re: Sioux Falls Games

Howard Field as memory serves opened as a new facility about the same time as CAS which was 1962.

What they have in common is the neither facility has been upgraded until recently.  HW was a lot worse as I recall when attending SDSU-Augie games.  The big improvements are the restrooms and the new turf which seems to be holding up very good considering the number of games played on that field.

As far as SF for football, maybe the stumbling block will be no facility that is equal or better than CAS. Capt'nCat made the comment that HWF reminded him of a high school atomosphere. I would not disagree as it is a high school facility as much or more than a college facility.

I was sitting on the shade side of the staduim and it was getting chilly so move over to the sun side, north stands I believe.  There were maybe 100 UCD fans at most and their band which was late according to the Davis Enterprise.  You could tell the UCD fans as they were on their feet when a big play was made by UCD.


I would agree, a game against UNI would no doubt draw more fans from the opponent.

The marketing this year has been stepped up and that is not say it could not pushed up more.  This is the first year I been in the Brookings area during football since 1965.  The newer and more frequent ads on the radio and in newspapers are more noticable to me.

I was surprised to see an add for SDSU Volleyball and Football in the Arlington Sun, and I am sure it was also in the Volga Tribune.  You be surprised but fans in towns 7 and 20 miles away have to reminded of games. Getting the Sioux Falls market is paramount, but it does not hurt to hit away at the communities within 50 to 60 miles from Brookings with ads and announcements.

The student attendance contrary to  JackguyII's observation, I thought  was better than I excpected.  Also the student attendance in my mind debunked the mention in Chris Solari's Saturday article that some students were upset about the UCD game being in Sioux Falls.  With 11000 students its hard to really get a representative opinion of where students stand on any issue.

I dont know if the Jouralism Department or the Sports Adminstration majors have courses in doing surveys and opinion polling but the Sioux Falls venue for sports would certainly give these people some hands on experience in testing methods to see what the results were of Sioux Falls hosting SDSU athletic events.

I think we need to try SF for football at least one more time and see what happens.

[Jacks99]

Re: Sioux Falls Games

I think it was a good move to do the game in SF, But...

If we do put SDSU events in SF they MUST have a marketing plan to fill the seats, otherwise it is a waste.

I hope we don't play outside of CAS again.  The goal was to get SF area alums to see a Jacks football game this year.  Hopefully mission accomplished.

I would rather spend the thousands of dollars wasted in SF on free tickets to a early season CAS game against an DI-AA  opponent. If the Davis game was at CAS it would have been much more impressive.

And/Or spend it on televising a game as said above on a local channel and sattelite feed. Bottom line, it will take a few years of winning seasons along with the chance of a playoff berth in the future to really fill the seats.

One thing for sure, I have a much better appreciation for CAS.  I wished I was there before the kickoff.

[Jacks99]

Re: Sioux Falls Games

2)  End all USD-vs-SDSU smack-like talk.  Celebrate Coyote successes at their level and encourage them to celebrate SDSU's successes in D-I.  This supports point #1 in that we need to broaden our marketing appeal to Coyote fans, as well as Augie, USF, Northern, SD Tech, and all other in-state sports fans.  

I totally agree. While there is part of me that wants to argue that State would win if they played, it is totally irrelevant. Unless the U comes to Brookings in the future, it won't ever matter. Time to move on and move forward.

Must tell you about my Cuz (USD grad) that called for the first time since April and the first thing out of his mouth was: "how come your AD won't schedule the Yote's? etc. etc. " It's going to take awhile.

I give credit where credit is due: The "U" has a great D2 football team right now. ;D

[JACKGUYII]

Re: Sioux Falls Games

I live in Sioux Falls and I did not go to the game.  A small reason was that I was busy, but the biggest reason was I just didn't want to go to a game at Howard Wood.  When I think of that stadium I think second class, and I think of High School football and Augie.  None of these are things I want associated with the Jacks.  To me, Brookings and CAS are just as big a part of Jackrabbit football as the blue and yellow jerseys are.  If they have another game in Sioux Falls will I go?  I MIGHT.  But I would much rather drive up to Brookings to see my Rabbits playing on their home turf, not at the second rate home field of a second rate former oponent.

I'm a little confused about some of the comments regarding Howard Wood Field. I'm not advocating the physical plant is a premiere facility, or has the atmosphere of Coughlin. Let's not forget the recent improvements to Coughlin ie. scoreboard,tailgating,signage,paving under the grandstand etc. We still have a long way to go and don't think we can start acting like Coughlin is some kind of taj mahol as we need such things as a second grandstand,suites,new press box, lockerrooms etc.l facility. Howard Wood has redone and added to the concessions,bathrooms and lockerrooms. I prefer natural grass if it can be taken care of, but have no problem with outdoor football with a nice turf like Howard Wood. The Jacks can take note of the nice landscaping around the sports complexes and convention center. I can't imagine not going to a Jacks game because I didn't like the stadium they were playing in. If that was the case I would not have made to the majority of the away games in the NCC and I suspect many of the DIAA stadiums.  

[filbert]

Re: Sioux Falls Games

Don't get me wrong, I think things are going fairly well.

I am sure that the things I'm saying about marketing are not news to the athletic department, and they are doing as much as they can with their current budget. I'm sure they're talking as much as they can with their D-I peers about marketing and picking up lots of good ideas--probably more ideas than they have resources to pursue.

Still, I want those rascally rabbits on TV as much as possible, as soon as possible, dag nab it! (Even though it probably won't do me much good sitting down here in KC, unless I buy one of those Slingboxes and give it to friend/family up there).

[OK_Jackrabbit]

Re: Sioux Falls Games

I'm a little confused about some of the comments regarding Howard Wood Field. I'm not advocating the physical plant is a premiere facility, or has the atmosphere of Coughlin. Let's not forget the recent improvements to Coughlin ie. scoreboard,tailgating,signage,paving under the grandstand etc. We still have a long way to go and don't think we can start acting like Coughlin is some kind of taj mahol as we need such things as a second grandstand,suites,new press box, lockerrooms etc.l facility. Howard Wood has redone and added to the concessions,bathrooms and lockerrooms. I prefer natural grass if it can be taken care of, but have no problem with outdoor football with a nice turf like Howard Wood. The Jacks can take note of the nice landscaping around the sports complexes and convention center. I can't imagine not going to a Jacks game because I didn't like the stadium they were playing in. If that was the case I would not have made to the majority of the away games in the NCC and I suspect many of the DIAA stadiums.  

Mostly, to me, it's an atmosphere thing. At HWF, you're farther from the field of play. Coughlin feels a lot more intimate and like you're right on top of the action. The scoreboard has added a lot to the games there, too. All the changes around the stadium make it feel more like a part of the campus as well. Give me Coughlin any time. That's not to say it's perfect, but it's a better atmosphere than HWF by far.

[Rabbit_FB_Alum]

Re: Sioux Falls Games

Mostly, to me, it's an atmosphere thing. At HWF, you're farther from the field of play. Coughlin feels a lot more intimate and like you're right on top of the action. The scoreboard has added a lot to the games there, too. All the changes around the stadium make it feel more like a part of the campus as well. Give me Coughlin any time. That's not to say it's perfect, but it's a better atmosphere than HWF by far.

Exactly! I know Coughlin isn't top notch, but it's home. When I was playing I always took special pride in it, simply because it was home. If people didn't think it was all that great, it made me love it even more.

[filbert]

Re: Sioux Falls Games

Exactly! I know Coughlin isn't top notch, but it's home. When I was playing I always took special pride in it, simply because it was home. If people didn't think it was all that great, it made me love it even more.

Coughlin's got some rough edges to be sure, but especially with the new scoreboard, it's really a pretty nice little stadium. I had the opportunity to go to the Missouri-Texas game in Columbia, and the only things other than 45,000 additional seats that Faurot Field has that CAS doesn't --from the fan point of view-- are:
1) field turf, making the field look "prettier" than a comparable grass field;
2) more concession choices;
3) some suites;
4) stadium chairs with backs for rent for $4 per seat;
5) a brick facade and nicer (black iron/aluminum) fencing;
6) fully paved parking lots and tailgating areas.

That's about it.

What I'd do with Coughlin over the next ten years is:

Pave the parking lots from the tree grove north of the stadium all the way to US 14 bypass.

Then, put in field turf.

Next, put up a new press box running the entire length of the west grandstands--make it two levels and surround the press boxes with suites on the ends of the first level and all along the second level up there. Build a few more concession areas and add some more bathrooms at the base of the press box structure. Finish it off with some nice brick and you'll have a pretty classic stadium look. That takes care of the west side (at least until you want to build a second deck).

Then, build a wellness center or something on the east side with some permanent seating over there and have some locker rooms under those seats on the east side. Maybe put some more suites on the east side, too, if the west side suites are selling well.

Finally, close off the north end to make a horseshoe and and we'd have a very nice D-I facility. (Note D-I, not I-AA).

Now, who's gone out and bought Powerball tickets to make this all possible?

[Rabbit_FB_Alum]

Re: Sioux Falls Games

I would have to give a huge NO to field turf in CAS. The grass is one of my favorite things about it. Football is meant to be played on grass.

Otherwise I agree with all your other improvements. That would sure be nice!