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Thread: Sanford Health/Summit League relationship

  1. #51
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    Default Re: Sanford Health/Summit League relationship

    Quote Originally Posted by Rabbit74 View Post
    It is a little more complex than this. Any size donation is tax deductible if you itemize your deductions, but itemizing is only beneficial if the total of your donation plus other expenses that may be itemized (real estate taxes, medical costs above a certain % of you adjusted gross income, interest on your home, sales taxes, etc.) exceeds the standard deduction which I believe was $12,200 for single filers and $24,400 for married filers this past year. The donation does not have to exceed these amounts but the sum of all donations and other items need to exceed the standard deduction to benefit you from a tax perspective. Prior to Trump's tax law change the standardized deductions were about half of what they are now and the tax benefits of itemize zing kicked in much sooner.

    The maximum amount of charitable deductions that are tax deductible is generally 50% of your adjusted gross income.
    There are some cases where the limit is 20% and others where it is 30%.

    This is for individuals. I don't have any idea of the rules for organizations.
    I might add that if an individual has a adjusted gross income of one billion dollars, he would then be allowed to deduct 500 million in charitable contributions. I been looking for additional limitations for high AGI’s but have not found any. Five hundred million would buy a bunch of facilities that the taxpayers would not to pay for. As far organizations it depends on how they are origanized. Corporations are taxed at the corporate rates. Sub Chapter S, taxable income flows to the share holders and tax exempt not for profit exempt under 501c(3) pay no taxes but complete form 990 for information purposes. One filled by Sanford no doubt very complex and is not completed by a junior accountant. No doubt a number of staff participate.
    Last edited by Nidaros; 08-20-2019 at 08:30 AM.

  2. #52
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    Default Re: Sanford Health/Summit League relationship

    Quote Originally Posted by MontanaRabbit View Post
    Can you prove this?

    Here it seems like it's speculation, but now it seems to be a fact.
    Possibly, under The Freedom of Information act we could get a copy Form 990 for Sanford Health. I am not certain if the major donors are disclosed. It would take work to prove this.

  3. #53
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    Default Re: Sanford Health/Summit League relationship

    Quote Originally Posted by MontanaRabbit View Post
    There-in lies the problem. Non-profit healthcare systems shouldn’t be “competing”. This shouldn’t be about the best “brand” we can create. It should be about benefiting society in the best possible way and donating buckets of money to endowment scholarships isn’t the best use considering the current state of healthcare in America
    Like most things in life, competition makes for a better product. A lot of people don't like how expensive health care is, but its an expensive service to use. (insert cliché here....if you think healthcare is expensive now, wait till its free). Non profit healthcare systems look for around 3% profit for the year. Basically that's to make sure they aren't short at the end of the year. What left over a lot of non profit health care systems "give back" to the community.....like being sponsors at the Washington Pavilion as an example. Because as much as we may criticize the donations the health care systems make, imagine if they didn't do anything like that. the community would also question why they aren't giving back to the community in some way. It goes both way.

    Which leads to what areas of commerce should fall under "It should be about benefiting society in the best possible way and donating buckets of money to endowment scholarships isn’t the best use considering the current state of healthcare in America". That argument could be made for basically any industry. Banking, banks should only work to give the lowest possible rates for the benefit of society. Energy, Xcel and Mid-American etc should only work to produce the most effective and cheapest energy so it lowers heating and electric bills because its for the benefit of society...… Sanford and Avera are both non profit healthcare systems and they compete to provide a better service for your business. They aren't trying to just make money off of their patients to have money left over to give for fun. As far as healthcare goes, there are things that are considered money makers and loser. Heart and cancer, babies, are all big money makers for systems. Mental health is a big money loser. There aren't really insurance plans that pay out for treatment for mental health issues and many who need it don't have insurance anyway. So basically my point is it is more complicated and a slippery slope to say health care should be about benefiting society.....Sanford is growing, they want to have a world wide reach, they want to be the next Mayo. Avera is really big into E-health and growing that segment and helping reach people that way. It all depends on the mission and focus of the health care organization. I work for Avera and I can say I get irritated when they say we have to watch our budget and numbers etc and then they build another multi million dollar hospital in SF. I get that how people are questioning what and why they do what they do. But a state like South Dakota is lucky to have the efforts of Sanford and Avera working here.
    "The most rewarding things you do in life, are often the ones that look like they cannot be done.” Arnold Palmer

    Don't sweat the petty things, and don't pet the sweaty things.

  4. #54
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    Default Re: Sanford Health/Summit League relationship

    Quote Originally Posted by goon View Post
    Like most things in life, competition makes for a better product. A lot of people don't like how expensive health care is, but its an expensive service to use. (insert cliché here....if you think healthcare is expensive now, wait till its free). Non profit healthcare systems look for around 3% profit for the year. Basically that's to make sure they aren't short at the end of the year. What left over a lot of non profit health care systems "give back" to the community.....like being sponsors at the Washington Pavilion as an example. Because as much as we may criticize the donations the health care systems make, imagine if they didn't do anything like that. the community would also question why they aren't giving back to the community in some way. It goes both way.

    Which leads to what areas of commerce should fall under "It should be about benefiting society in the best possible way and donating buckets of money to endowment scholarships isn’t the best use considering the current state of healthcare in America". That argument could be made for basically any industry. Banking, banks should only work to give the lowest possible rates for the benefit of society. Energy, Xcel and Mid-American etc should only work to produce the most effective and cheapest energy so it lowers heating and electric bills because its for the benefit of society...… Sanford and Avera are both non profit healthcare systems and they compete to provide a better service for your business. They aren't trying to just make money off of their patients to have money left over to give for fun. As far as healthcare goes, there are things that are considered money makers and loser. Heart and cancer, babies, are all big money makers for systems. Mental health is a big money loser. There aren't really insurance plans that pay out for treatment for mental health issues and many who need it don't have insurance anyway. So basically my point is it is more complicated and a slippery slope to say health care should be about benefiting society.....Sanford is growing, they want to have a world wide reach, they want to be the next Mayo. Avera is really big into E-health and growing that segment and helping reach people that way. It all depends on the mission and focus of the health care organization. I work for Avera and I can say I get irritated when they say we have to watch our budget and numbers etc and then they build another multi million dollar hospital in SF. I get that how people are questioning what and why they do what they do. But a state like South Dakota is lucky to have the efforts of Sanford and Avera working here.
    Did you really try to compare Sanford Health and banks? That's funny stuff.

    Let me ask this question and it's not just directed at you.

    If Sanford Health is a major funding source and proponent for Augie's move to DI and given the fact that they are pretty deeply invested in the Summit League thus can almost hold the league hostage to let Augie in, are you ok with that?

  5. #55
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    Default Re: Sanford Health/Summit League relationship

    Quote Originally Posted by goon View Post
    Like most things in life, competition makes for a better product. A lot of people don't like how expensive health care is, but its an expensive service to use. (insert cliché here....if you think healthcare is expensive now, wait till its free). Non profit healthcare systems look for around 3% profit for the year. Basically that's to make sure they aren't short at the end of the year. What left over a lot of non profit health care systems "give back" to the community.....like being sponsors at the Washington Pavilion as an example. Because as much as we may criticize the donations the health care systems make, imagine if they didn't do anything like that. the community would also question why they aren't giving back to the community in some way. It goes both way.
    Just looking at the consolidated statement for Sanford, it had $4.4 billion in revenues and $151 million in income from operations. This equates to about 3.5% of revenues.

    The hospital donating hundreds of thousands or even millions of dollars to schools and other philanthropic entities seems like a waste of resources that balloons the cost of healthcare, but we are talking about a pretty small portion of revenues that are actually used in this way.

    I'm happy we have two successful hospitals in Sioux Falls, and I have no doubt that the competition between the two has raised the quality of life for all of us in South Dakota.

  6. #56
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    Default Re: Sanford Health/Summit League relationship

    Quote Originally Posted by MontanaRabbit View Post
    Did you really try to compare Sanford Health and banks? That's funny stuff.

    Let me ask this question and it's not just directed at you.

    If Sanford Health is a major funding source and proponent for Augie's move to DI and given the fact that they are pretty deeply invested in the Summit League thus can almost hold the league hostage to let Augie in, are you ok with that?
    Clearly you missed the point.

    Its their money and they can attach what ever strings to how its used with in the law. Its no different then any other major donor to a college or sports team. There is talk of it basically every year, major donor threatens to pull their donations if X coach isn't fired or hired.

    college athletics is not self funding so if outside funds help to make that happen that's the way it goes then.

    If you have a problem with people and organizations making money and using that money as they see fit that's clearly going to be a problem for you.
    "The most rewarding things you do in life, are often the ones that look like they cannot be done.” Arnold Palmer

    Don't sweat the petty things, and don't pet the sweaty things.

  7. #57
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    Default Re: Sanford Health/Summit League relationship

    Quote Originally Posted by Jacks-02 View Post
    Just looking at the consolidated statement for Sanford, it had $4.4 billion in revenues and $151 million in income from operations. This equates to about 3.5% of revenues.

    The hospital donating hundreds of thousands or even millions of dollars to schools and other philanthropic entities seems like a waste of resources that balloons the cost of healthcare, but we are talking about a pretty small portion of revenues that are actually used in this way.

    I'm happy we have two successful hospitals in Sioux Falls, and I have no doubt that the competition between the two has raised the quality of life for all of us in South Dakota.
    I completely agree with this. Sanford is a wonderful asset for everyone in the region. I'm really not bothered all that much by Sanford and their donations although I think they could use that money more wisely.

    Now the relationship between Sanford, Augie, and the Summit League is much more concerning.

  8. #58
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    Default Re: Sanford Health/Summit League relationship

    Quote Originally Posted by goon View Post
    Clearly you missed the point.

    Its their money and they can attach what ever strings to how its used with in the law. Its no different then any other major donor to a college or sports team. There is talk of it basically every year, major donor threatens to pull their donations if X coach isn't fired or hired.

    college athletics is not self funding so if outside funds help to make that happen that's the way it goes then.

    If you have a problem with people and organizations making money and using that money as they see fit that's clearly going to be a problem for you.
    Lol.

    You never answered my question.

  9. #59
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    Default Re: Sanford Health/Summit League relationship

    Quote Originally Posted by MontanaRabbit View Post
    Lol.

    You never answered my question.
    Sanford or the league aren't going to ask my opinion on it so it doesn't really matter. Frankly I don't really care but its clear it bothers you and you missed the point.

    So answer this then just to be clear. You have a problem with a health care system donating money as they see fit because it doesn't fit your ideas of how health care should be "benefiting society"?

    If Sanford has a connection to Augie and the summit league that's fine with me. Frankly having Augie in the summit would be better for the league. I know know why so many care about what IPFW or Western Ill care about. They are programs and institutions that offer little to the betterment of the conference. Augie would probably become a good stable member, which our conference needs. Augie wont jump to the Horizon like other schools would like too. Some may be excited about UMKC coming back but I don't see this as a great thing. Just another school to schedule conference games. They do nothing to elevate the conference or stability and will probably be gone as soon as another option comes up.
    "The most rewarding things you do in life, are often the ones that look like they cannot be done.” Arnold Palmer

    Don't sweat the petty things, and don't pet the sweaty things.

  10. #60
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    Default Re: Sanford Health/Summit League relationship

    Quote Originally Posted by goon View Post
    Sanford or the league aren't going to ask my opinion on it so it doesn't really matter. Frankly I don't really care but its clear it bothers you and you missed the point.

    So answer this then just to be clear. You have a problem with a health care system donating money as they see fit because it doesn't fit your ideas of how health care should be "benefiting society"?

    If Sanford has a connection to Augie and the summit league that's fine with me. Frankly having Augie in the summit would be better for the league. I know know why so many care about what IPFW or Western Ill care about. They are programs and institutions that offer little to the betterment of the conference. Augie would probably become a good stable member, which our conference needs. Augie wont jump to the Horizon like other schools would like too. Some may be excited about UMKC coming back but I don't see this as a great thing. Just another school to schedule conference games. They do nothing to elevate the conference or stability and will probably be gone as soon as another option comes up.
    What happens when the non-Dakota (DU, ORU, WIU, Omaha) get tired of the Summit being pushed by Sanford money to become a Dakota league focused solely on Sioux Falls? This is why so many outside of the Sioux Falls bubble want St. Thomas to get a waiver and move directly to the Summit, hopefully cutting Augustana's fateful D1 flirtation off at the knees. Pretty sure the member schools would all prefer St. Thomas or even UNC over Augustana. The cozy relationship the Summit leaders currently have with Sanford, and specifically Krabbenhoft is not viewed favorably outside the region.

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