Time for Stig to move on?

[Rabbitball]

Re: Time for Stig to move on?

I think more than 5% graduate in 4 years if they want to (I'm guessing some purposely hold out on graduating because they don't want to start a grad program while playing sports.)

If they want to is correct. Might not be as low as 5% but I wouldn't put it any higher than 20. If it's true that they can only take 12 credits in season, then they must take 18 every spring to be on track for graduation. That's a tough load for a lot of guys, especially with spring ball demands. There's never really an offseason. Heck I went 4.5 so I could just be a college student for a semester. There were a lot of us that did that. Feel like the only ones that went only 4 were the pre med and engineering kids

[Hareofthedog]

Re: Time for Stig to move on?

If you want to harp at talent issues, why isn't the program recruiting grad transfers and D-I FBS recruits? That is where I'd like to see them improve not red-shirt/don't redshirt argument. this is a huge issue especially finding that “needed” starter and depth that will play. I’ve seen juco guys come in and not play at all. Find a transfer player or two each year if possible. All other MVC teams seem to do this and it works. If they have some borderline issues then give them one more chance or the tough love you gave current players. No team is all angels so don’t talk about not bringing in transfers for the reason of past troubles.

[Jackedforlife]

Re: Time for Stig to move on?

Redshirts Pulled:
Seven Wilson- Contributes on special teams and backup OLB. Played in all 6 games. Needed due to 3 season/career ending injuries at the position. 10 tackles so far this season.
Noah Urbanek- Contributes on special teams and backup OLB. Played in 5 of 6 games (missed due to injury). Needed due to 3 season/career ending injuries at the position. 9 tackles, 1.5 tackles for loss so far this season.
Xavier Ward- In the rotation at defensive tackle. Played in all 6 games. Needed due to Whitsell retirement. 3 tackles this season
Daniel Callender- Pass rush specialist at DE. Played in 3 of 6 games. Hasn't played as much as most of us expected. Has made an impact at times. 3 tackles, 1 tackle for loss, .5 sack

Eddie Miller- Offensive guard. Played in 5 of 6 games. Due to depth issues, is 1 play away. Will compete next year to start.
Eagan Lickiss- Offensive tackle. Played in all 6 games. Due to depth and suspension/quitting of Matt Clark, is 1 play away.
Jack Domandle- Backup center. Played in 3 games. 1 play away and will compete with Austin Boen to take over this position next year after Ohnesorge graduates.
Skyler Cavanaugh- Backup tight end and special teams. Played in all 6 games. Named MVFC Newcomer of the Week following SIU performance. 6 receptions, 73 yards, 1 TD


In terms who could have been playing this year... Cole Langer, Jesse Bobbit, Thayer Trenhaile. Remember, this class had a TON of attrition in transfers and players quitting football.

Seriously of these 8 who would you guys have redshirted?

All 8 have contributed greatly to depth and athleticism on the field. I can't think of one time I saw one of these 8 make a mistake and thought, they should've been redshirted. If any have made a mistake it hasn't been egregious...our issue isn't playing true freshman right now. These guys are contributing in a positive way and I don't think they are playing because they were promised to play right away. They are playing because they are good enough to play plus the need is there for depth.

WSR you'd know best but I thought Krockett K had played as well, I think he's injured now but I was thinking he was rotating in too earlier this year.

[WestSideRabbit]

Re: Time for Stig to move on?

If you want to harp at talent issues, why isn't the program recruiting grad transfers and D-I FBS recruits? That is where I'd like to see them improve not red-shirt/don't redshirt argument. this is a huge issue especially finding that “needed” starter and depth that will play. I’ve seen juco guys come in and not play at all. Find a transfer player or two each year if possible. All other MVC teams seem to do this and it works. If they have some borderline issues then give them one more chance or the tough love you gave current players. No team is all angels so don’t talk about not bringing in transfers for the reason of past troubles.

This is what I was thinking. We are needing to use these freshmen because of attrition from prior years and it feel like we never catch up. In my opinion, it may be better take a flier on a juco vs. burn a redshirt. Anthony Washington has worked out pretty well for us. Tommy Hopp has been a very capable special teams player and could play fullback in a pinch according to John Johnson and has seen time at linebacker. Jared Blum provided quality time at defensive end. Travis Zimmerman never played for us at center (other than mop-up time) but that is what Domandle, Miller, and Lickiss have essentially done. Lujon was a transfer and we know what he did. Larvis Jones at wide receiver transferred in and was a great run blocker but I'm not sure he ever caught a pass. I remember the two guys we got from UNO when their program folded (punter & defensive end) and they were both successful. Also, Winston Wright was a transfer, we may have landed him because of his brother in the grade below. What other recent transfers am I missing?

[WestSideRabbit]

Re: Time for Stig to move on?

Seriously of these 8 who would you guys have redshirted?

All 8 have contributed greatly to depth and athleticism on the field. I can't think of one time I saw one of these 8 make a mistake and thought, they should've been redshirted. If any have made a mistake it hasn't been egregious...our issue isn't playing true freshman right now. These guys are contributing in a positive way and I don't think they are playing because they were promised to play right away. They are playing because they are good enough to play plus the need is there for depth.

WSR you'd know best but I thought Krockett K had played as well, I think he's injured now but I was thinking he was rotating in too earlier this year.

Krockett never played. If there had been another injury at DT they would have burned it, but at this point he hasn't played.

Also, I think they problem isn't necessarily that they haven't been successful. It is that they would be more successful in a 5th year and the team would possibly be more successful with more experience. This isn't a fault of the players. Just a fault of long running problem with attrition on the defensive side of the ball. We have seemingly had greater success retaining top talent on the offensive side of the ball.

Here is a list of guys who could/should be playing on our defense this year:
Trey Carr (CB)
Shaq Taylor (CB)
JT Hassle (OLB)
Cole Langer (DT)
Jesse Bobbit (OLB)
Jordan Birchachek (DT)
Kyle Tuttle (OLB)
Jake Harms (OLB)
Blake Whitsell (DT)

Again, every program has this. Players leave. Players get injured. Players play as true freshman. However, this list of 9 is pretty damn good, at least the contributions they made in their limited time. But compare this to where we burned redshirts. OLB, DT, and DE.

On offense, we have lost a number of offensive linemen since Eck joined. Were they not good enough? Did they not like the coaching change? Were they just tired of football? Were their bodies beat up? I'm sure its a combination of all of that.

[NWHSUandSDSU]

Re: Time for Stig to move on?

Seriously of these 8 who would you guys have redshirted?

All 8 have contributed greatly to depth and athleticism on the field. I can't think of one time I saw one of these 8 make a mistake and thought, they should've been redshirted. If any have made a mistake it hasn't been egregious...our issue isn't playing true freshman right now. These guys are contributing in a positive way and I don't think they are playing because they were promised to play right away. They are playing because they are good enough to play plus the need is there for depth.

WSR you'd know best but I thought Krockett K had played as well, I think he's injured now but I was thinking he was rotating in too earlier this year.

i believe Krockett has only dressed but never played. As far as academics and graduating I think you have to wonder how many students coming into college have credits that they took during their high school career. They may be ahead of the game before they even start school.

[THEsocalledfan]

Re: Time for Stig to move on?

For all those who think burning shirts is good business, look up how many shirts NDSU pulls each year.

With that said, yes, you need to pull shirts from time to time, but don't try to rationalize pulling shirts is good if you want to be a developmental program.

[Jackedforlife]

Re: Time for Stig to move on?

For all those who think burning shirts is good business, look up how many shirts NDSU pulls each year.

With that said, yes, you need to pull shirts from time to time, but don't try to rationalize pulling shirts is good if you want to be a developmental program.

Truth, we've pulled them in the past when it didn't make any sense but I believe this year is a different story. I can rationalize these being pulled because they are needed, they are contributing and they are not the issue when we play bad. One can say it'd be nice to have Langer this year but if you remember he was NEEDED as FR. Maybe in 4 years we'll say the same about a Cavanaugh or Callender and the others. I'll always say we should have the best players playing, true freshman or 5th year put them on the field. I hope that we can get to the point like NDSU where it's a rarity to pull a redshirt. That means our upper classman starting and reserves are better than the trues...we are not there yet.

[westernjack]

Re: Time for Stig to move on?

Seriously of these 8 who would you guys have redshirted?

All 8 have contributed greatly to depth and athleticism on the field. I can't think of one time I saw one of these 8 make a mistake and thought, they should've been redshirted. If any have made a mistake it hasn't been egregious...our issue isn't playing true freshman right now. These guys are contributing in a positive way and I don't think they are playing because they were promised to play right away. They are playing because they are good enough to play plus the need is there for depth.

WSR you'd know best but I thought Krockett K had played as well, I think he's injured now but I was thinking he was rotating in too earlier this year.

I think Cavenough and urbaneck are though only ones who should have had their redshirts pulled. I understand why ward did but he isn't physically ready right now. I can't believe some don't see the benefit of a redshirt year. Larger and Bobbit would have been great to have this year, but we used their redshirts in 2013. That year Langer weighed 255, had 35 tackles and 1 sack. Bobbit weighed 205 and had 9 tackles. In 2016 Langer weighed 315, had 40 tackles and 5 sacks. Bobbit weighed 240 and had 110 tackles. Now can anyone honestly say those guys stats wouldn't have been better this year, their 5th year, than what they were in their freshman years?

[WestSideRabbit]

Re: Time for Stig to move on?

For all those who think burning shirts is good business, look up how many shirts NDSU pulls each year.

With that said, yes, you need to pull shirts from time to time, but don't try to rationalize pulling shirts is good if you want to be a developmental program.

I don't think anyone is claiming its a great idea. Ideally these guys would all be redshirting.

Lets go position by position again this year.
One the offensive line what would you do? Carbis quit, Clark was suspended, Dobrenski wasn't supposed to play this season but had an incredible recovery from injury. Caleb Lang is a great guy but not a quality backup on the offensive line. I don't know the answer, but would you rather have Lickiss, Domandle and Miller getting their first snaps against Duquesne or NDSU should injury to the starters occur? There literally are not other quality bodies at the position.

Tight end. No matter what the coaches said. Dallas was hurt in week one. Sam Steckmen was hurt most of camp and had barely practiced. Were the Jacks supposed to go in with just 1 tight end, Kal Hart?

Defensive tackle. Lost three DT's to graduation and 1 to injury retirement. Yes, there should be better depth and yes the coaches should have been planning better for graduation, but there isn't. Ward had to play. If Dominic Simpson had been here, he probably would have played instead as he is a much bigger body. If Whitsell doesn't get injured again, maybe neither would have had their redshirts pulled. A rotation of Soulek, Whitsell, Hildahl and Stacker isn't terrible in my opinion. Barrett could provide depth instead of being asked to play a ton.

Outside Linebacker. Injuries again. Losing Harms and Tuttle hurt alot. They were both going to compete for the starting position with Backhaus and Kleinschmit. Whoever didn't win that would have provided good depth. Tuttle was having a great fall camp before his injury. Workman was also hurt most of camp and then losing Tetzlaff to injury only made the situation worse. Brandon Thomas and Jeremy Christner are coming off a position changes. Okay players but learning a new position. We have seen Cox's limitations in the few times he has lined up as a OLB.

Again, every team has injuries but some positions have certainly been hit harder than others.

[Bits]

Re: Time for Stig to move on?

Truth, we've pulled them in the past when it didn't make any sense but I believe this year is a different story. I can rationalize these being pulled because they are needed, they are contributing and they are not the issue when we play bad. One can say it'd be nice to have Langer this year but if you remember he was NEEDED as FR. Maybe in 4 years we'll say the same about a Cavanaugh or Callender and the others. I'll always say we should have the best players playing, true freshman or 5th year put them on the field. I hope that we can get to the point like NDSU where it's a rarity to pull a redshirt. That means our upper classman starting and reserves are better than the trues...we are not there yet.

Well said. As WSR pointed out, depth was the reason all of the redshirts were pulled. The problem is attrition. I don't see any of these freshman starting on O or D. While they haven't made mistakes, at least to the fan's eyes, is that really the metric we want to use for evaluation? I would prefer we only pull redshirts on guys that are going to be a disruptive force against the other team either. If we want to be a program that reloads and is a National Championship contender every year, we need to get to the point where we're not relying on true freshman to fill in the depth chart all over the place.

[Jackedforlife]

Re: Time for Stig to move on?

I think Cavenough and urbaneck are though only ones who should have had their redshirts pulled. I understand why ward did but he isn't physically ready right now. I can't believe some don't see the benefit of a redshirt year. Larger and Bobbit would have been great to have this year, but we used their redshirts in 2013. That year Langer weighed 255, had 35 tackles and 1 sack. Bobbit weighed 205 and had 9 tackles. In 2016 Langer weighed 315, had 40 tackles and 5 sacks. Bobbit weighed 240 and had 110 tackles. Now can anyone honestly say those guys stats wouldn't have been better this year, their 5th year, than what they were in their freshman years?

I see your point and it's a matter of opinion(aren't all forum posts, lol). In 2013 we were playing for similar stakes with a very good Jacks team. Those guys played for depth...one could argue that Langer played better at 280ish. It's rare to get a 4 year starter these days. Hindsight is always 20/20 but I think the coaches are putting the best players on the field right now. O-line depth is a concern so those guys are needed. Same for the other positions, I think there are probably other trues that could be contributing as well but the position groups have adequate depth.

Oh...and watch Wilson on kick coverage and tell me he shouldn't be out there. Remember these guys are more than offense and defense. Knock on wood(especially with the guy this week) the coverage units have been far better this year than any year in the recent past.

[Jackedforlife]

Re: Time for Stig to move on?

Well said. As WSR pointed out, depth was the reason all of the redshirts were pulled. The problem is attrition. I don't see any of these freshman starting on O or D. While they haven't made mistakes, at least to the fan's eyes, is that really the metric we want to use for evaluation? I would prefer we only pull redshirts on guys that are going to be a disruptive force against the other team either. If we want to be a program that reloads and is a National Championship contender every year, we need to get to the point where we're not relying on true freshman to fill in the depth chart all over the place.

Rarely does a true or RS ever start...I'm sure these guys have made mistakes, just not glaring ones that stick out. I'm of the camp that would love to see them redshirted but we don't have that luxury yet it's about depth that is needed. WSR said it best, I'd rather see Miller getting his first reps against Drake than NDSU. As far as disruptive forces I submit the special teams play of 7 and 13...I think they've been a welcome addition there in an area where we have been atrocious at times.

[MontanaRabbit]

Re: Time for Stig to move on?

You want to redshirt all the freshman (which I think is a good idea)? Stig needs to find a way to build depth. It's been a major issue for years.

Imagine what would happen in TC goes down. NDSU lost Wentz a couple years back for what half the season? They won it all with Wentz not playing until the final. If I remember right didn't they loose some stud on defense last year? They never seem to have an issue plugging in the next guy.

[WestSideRabbit]

Re: Time for Stig to move on?

You want to redshirt all the freshman (which I think is a good idea)? Stig needs to find a way to build depth. It's been a major issue for years.

Imagine what would happen in TC goes down. NDSU lost Wentz a couple years back for what half the season? They won it all with Wentz not playing until the final. If I remember right didn't they loose some stud on defense last year? They never seem to have an issue plugging in the next guy.

Yep. Deluca last year. Menard this year.