The end of NDSU domination

[Nidaros]

Re: The end of NDSU domination

One of the interesting questions going forward is where do NDSU's facilities go in the coming 10-15 years? The FargoDome is pretty much maxed out for them. It has only a few luxury boxes and they couldn't shoehorn more than about 18,800 people in there if they got a home and home with Alabama. Their new practice bubble pales in comparison with the SJAC. I'm not saying there's any crisis or problem there. They just don't have room to grow. And maybe they have a plan. Heaven knows there's a ton of support for the Bison up there. Meanwhile, we are at the start of a new era of top-notch facilities.

I have heard there are plans to add 5000 seats in the near future. It requires a reconfiguration of the existing seating, but apparently there are plans based on the turn out for recent home games. The resources are there and its not even an NDSU problem since the city owns the property on which the Fargo Dome sits.

[scbison]

Re: The end of NDSU domination

I have heard there are plans to add 5000 seats in the near future. It requires a reconfiguration of the existing seating, but apparently there are plans based on the turn out for recent home games. The resources are there and its not even an NDSU problem since the city owns the property on which the Fargo Dome sits.

The dome has a $42 million surplus. With a bison hall of famer on city commission spearheading the dome renovation it's not if but when. It includes skyboxes, additional seating, new scoreboards etc.

The city owns the FFD but NDSU owns the land. Regarding our bubble we have done just fine without one can't imagine what we will do with 2 IPFs.

[Nidaros]

Re: The end of NDSU domination

The dome has a $42 million surplus. With a bison hall of famer on city commission spearheading the dome renovation it's not if but when. It includes skyboxes, additional seating, new scoreboards etc.

The city owns the FFD but NDSU owns the land. Regarding our bubble we have done just fine without one can't imagine what we will do with 2 IPFs.

Thanks. When you use the word surplus, what exactly do you mean? Is cash on hand, equity( assets-liabilities) or what is it? The accountant in me wants to know.

[Nidaros]

Re: The end of NDSU domination

Here is what Wipi has to say about the Fabulous Fargo Dome:

The Fargodome is currently studying an expansion of its permanent seating. The current capacity is 18,700 with an additional 100 seats to be added during the winter, 2015.[6] The addition of 5,000 to 7,500 seats has been discussed since 2011, but is now being seriously considered after several straight years of sold out NDSU Bison football games. That would bring the total capacity for football games to around 25,000. The additional seating would require major structural changes to the dome, including moving the press boxes from the East Side to the west side, the West side has been reinforced and could handle extra levels whereas the East side has a lobby that was not designed to bear any extra load.

[SF_Rabbit_Fan]

Re: The end of NDSU domination

The dome has a $42 million surplus. With a bison hall of famer on city commission spearheading the dome renovation it's not if but when. It includes skyboxes, additional seating, new scoreboards etc.

The city owns the FFD but NDSU owns the land. Regarding our bubble we have done just fine without one can't imagine what we will do with 2 IPFs.

Cool. Any links, concept drawings, commission votes, AD quotes, etc or is this just talk from Bison fans that can't stand the thought of being second rate at anything, ever?

[JimmyJack]

Re: The end of NDSU domination

Here is what Wipi has to say about the Fabulous Fargo Dome:

The Fargodome is currently studying an expansion of its permanent seating. The current capacity is 18,700 with an additional 100 seats to be added during the winter, 2015.[6] The addition of 5,000 to 7,500 seats has been discussed since 2011, but is now being seriously considered after several straight years of sold out NDSU Bison football games. That would bring the total capacity for football games to around 25,000. The additional seating would require major structural changes to the dome, including moving the press boxes from the East Side to the west side, the West side has been reinforced and could handle extra levels whereas the East side has a lobby that was not designed to bear any extra load.

Sounds like at least $42 million worth of stuff right there when you start talking about "major structural changes" under the roof a building like that. Skyboxes PLUS 5,000 to 7,500 seats within the existing space? Sounds like wishful thinking to me, or at least a recipe for a very compromised facility. But I'm not an engineer or architect. It will be interesting to see what they come up with.

[Nidaros]

Re: The end of NDSU domination

The campus ground is getting scarce that is that around 19th Ave. and they would have build a new facility further north, but then you start bumping into Hector Air Field. If a new facility is built, they may have to do it right where it is now and that would be another 300 million I suspect at current prices, but down the road much more. I don't think they have much choice about location unless going further north. The area around the campus has really developed and supports game day activities. Its going to take several 1962 seasons of 0-10, to destroy the following of bison.

[Hammersmith]

Re: The end of NDSU domination

Sounds like at least $42 million worth of stuff right there when you start talking about "major structural changes" under the roof a building like that. Skyboxes PLUS 5,000 to 7,500 seats within the existing space? Sounds like wishful thinking to me, or at least a recipe for a very compromised facility. But I'm not an engineer or architect. It will be interesting to see what they come up with.

It's just talk at this point, but it's public talk from people on the board that runs the FD; that's new. Up until now, the only public talk was from people without any influence, and the people with influence were keeping their mouths shut.


For those that are interested in this kind of stuff, here's what's been talked about: (from minor to major)

1. Reconfiguring handicapped seating to gain a hundred seats or so. Current handicapped seating uses platforms that were added over the top of existing seating. They say they've figured out a better way to do it that will still provide good handicapped seating without using up as many regular seats.

2. "Party decks." They're exploring the idea of adding some form of second level to the corners. This could add space for a few hundred people in lounge-type areas. Visibility would be terrible, so I'd suspect TVs would be placed around the edge that would show the videoboard feed. I'm sure alcohol would be served during non-NDSU functions, but I question whether the university would change its stance. The limited access nature of these areas might sway them, however. But I have my doubts whether the party deck idea is viable. Structurally I don't see any big problems, but logistically? How are you going to get food/beverage/equipment up there? Stairs? Elevator? There's no way to connect any of the decks to the others, so that means duplicating access methods four times. What about bathrooms? Are you going to add them to the second levels, or have people go down to the lower level? I don't see any insurmountable hurdles to the idea, but I do see a lot of headaches for a few hundred seats.

3. North press box removal. The FD has two press boxes. The main one runs along the east wall of the FD and is used for FB. The north press box was meant for basketball and hockey, but is almost never used. If it was ripped out, they could add another hundred seats or so to the top of the north end zone sections.

4. New construction. The most intensive(and expensive) of the possible work is an addition to the west side of the FD. It wouldn't be very deep, but it would go up to the top of the dome and run the full length of the west side. It's primary job would be to create a new press box level and a full set of luxury boxes. This would allow the FD to also remove the existing east press box and all the existing suites. This could add a thousand or so regular seats as well as several hundred new luxury seats. This may or may not affect the roofline of the west side. This is by far the most expensive of the options being seriously considered.


Photos of the areas: (in order)

Current handicapped seating (there are several of these platforms around the FD)



Corner



North press box (hidden behind the scoreboard)



West wall expansion area: Look at the photo above. It's the grey area above the top blue seating on the left side. The red seating area would then become solid seating like the end zone sections without the suites.

[Hammersmith]

Re: The end of NDSU domination

And if you added up the rough numbers in my previous post, you quickly realize they don't come close to 5000, much less 7500. More like 2000; maybe 3000 if they're really lucky. I think it's more about cracking the 20k barrier than anything else.



Another thing to understand about all this: There's currently a fight going on about where to locate a new convention center to replace our 50+ year old Civic. Downtown business owners want it down there and want to use the FD surplus money to help pay for it. The FD people want the new convention center to be an addition to the SE corner of the building. It's feeling like the downtown group is winning the battle at the moment, and I wonder if some of these projects are an attempt to spend the surplus money before they can get their hands on it. We're also hearing that new videoboards and/or scoreboards are going in this summer. I suspect for the same reasons.

Finally, the $40-some million in the reserve fund can't all be used for projects. At least $15-20 million needs to be kept for capital upgrades for the next few decades. The FD makes a profit each year, but that profit's too small to pay for big projects like videoboard replacement, seating replacement, HVAC equipment replacement, etc. The surplus fund was intended for stuff like that. But the sales tax that funded the FD brought in much more money than expected, so there's excess money in the fund that is limited in its use by law.

[TK22867]

Re: The end of NDSU domination

So let me get this straight. NDSU has won 3 national titles in a row, and is in the middle of another playoff run towards Frisco for their 4th. We haven't beat them since 2009. We finally keep a game close and lose by 3 points, and all of the sudden NDSU's domination is coming to an end?

But we will have better facilities? I'm sure those new chairbacks are good for at least a 5 or 6 home point advantage. Will we get better recruits? Yes, but they still have to be coached and they will still be playing in an outdoor stadium in the middle of December.

The Fargo Dome might be starting to show its age, but the game-day atmosphere makes up for it 10-fold. 18,000 screaming fans in an indoor stadium in the middle of December at 72 degrees is quite the selling point. Don't sell NDSU's facilities short.

The bottom line? Only WINNING will take care of everything.

EDIT 1: I understand college football is cyclic - Just look at Notre Dame, Miami, Oklahoma........the list goes on. I just don't think we're as close to the end of the NDSU domination cycle as portrayed in this thread.

[shot_5533]

Re: The end of NDSU domination

So let me get this straight. NDSU has won 3 national titles in a row, and is in the middle of another playoff run towards Frisco for their 4th. We haven't beat them since 2009. We finally keep a game close and lose by 3 points, and all of the sudden NDSU's domination is coming to an end?

But we will have better facilities? I'm sure those new chairbacks are good for at least a 5 or 6 home point advantage. Will we get better recruits? Yes, but they still have to be coached and they will still be playing in an outdoor stadium in the middle of December.

The Fargo Dome might be starting to show its age, but the game-day atmosphere makes up for it 10-fold. 18,000 screaming fans in an indoor stadium in the middle of December at 72 degrees is quite the selling point. Don't sell NDSU's facilities short.

The bottom line? Only WINNING will take care of everything.

EDIT 1: I understand college football is cyclic - Just look at Notre Dame, Miami, Oklahoma........the list goes on. I just don't think we're as close to the end of the NDSU domination cycle as portrayed in this thread.

Thankfully facilities don't matter; I'll be sure to tell the Vikings to stop construction on their new stadium, I'll let Jerry Kill know he doesn't need his new practice facility, and then lets tell SDSU nation to stop contributing to the new facilities.
Of course facilities matter.

Please re read the first few posts that started the thread. They are a thoughtful, well thought out dissertation on why the dominance will now be ending. If you disagree, give us a logical argument. Shiny new facilities do matter to a lot of recruits. In the past, it obviously didn't matter to past Jackrabbit recruits. I still can't figure out how they fit the team in the old locker room.

And you are right, the Wins will prove who is right or wrong in this theory.

I still say don't worry about the Bison Facilities. With their oil money, they could Build a new stadium right next to the old stadium and knock the old one down.

[TK22867]

Re: The end of NDSU domination

Thankfully facilities don't matter; I'll be sure to tell the Vikings to stop construction on their new stadium, I'll let Jerry Kill know he doesn't need his new practice facility, and then lets tell SDSU nation to stop contributing to the new facilities.
Of course facilities matter.

Please re read the first few posts that started the thread. They are a thoughtful, well thought out dissertation on why the dominance will now be ending. If you disagree, give us a logical argument. Shiny new facilities do matter to a lot of recruits. In the past, it obviously didn't matter to past Jackrabbit recruits. I still can't figure out how they fit the team in the old locker room.

And you are right, the Wins will prove who is right or wrong in this theory.

I still say don't worry about the Bison Facilities. With their oil money, they could Build a new stadium right next to the old stadium and knock the old one down.

I didn't say facilities didn't matter. I just don't think they are going to make as big of difference between us and NDSU as those are claiming.

I give credit to JD for his dissertation on the history of the series. However, as I mentioned earlier, do you know how absolutely silly it sounds saying that "their domination is ending"? Lets look at the other side of the coin and let me ask you this. What has NDSU done recently to prove their domination is nearing an end? Let us come within 3 points of them? FINALLY losing a regular season game?

Please walk into that NDSU locker room and say "excuse me, but according to some poster on some SDSU forum your dominance of us will be ending now. Thank you." SMH at some of you guys.

[JackJD]

Re: The end of NDSU domination

Just creating a little speculative discussion. In starting this thread, I had the following goals: 1) NDSU fans would claim I've been possessed by a certain poster on the UND board who submits long-winded posts and then uses those as support for arguing his agenda -- can't reason with the guy and you're a bum if you try! ; 2) I got out of hanging Christmas lights on the house on a Sunday afternoon; 3) education: the win/loss history is interesting and in particular, the Darrell Mudra hire plus the dramatic change in emphasis on football did some amazing, lasting things at NDSU; 4) At least one poster would admonish me to "Lighten up, Francis" or something similar but perhaps in more earthy language (wife took care of that one); and 5) didn't want to be accused of accepting a loss but at the same time, was compelled to comment that we're seeing improvement.

[shot_5533]

Re: The end of NDSU domination

I didn't say facilities didn't matter. I just don't think they are going to make as big of difference between us and NDSU as those are claiming.

I give credit to JD for his dissertation on the history of the series. However, as I mentioned earlier, do you know how absolutely silly it sounds saying that "their domination is ending"? Lets look at the other side of the coin and let me ask you this. What has NDSU done recently to prove their domination is nearing an end? Let us come within 3 points of them? FINALLY losing a regular season game?

Please walk into that NDSU locker room and say "excuse me, but according to some poster on some SDSU forum your dominance of us will be ending now. Thank you." SMH at some of you guys.

I see your point and give it credence; however, I do agree with JackJD. Lets let time play it out and see who is correct. Sports, especially football, are great. I think Nebraska thought their dominance would last forever too.

I still don't understand why you want posters on this forum to "talk" to various teams/players. Players could care less what we write on the forums. Coaches tell players not to pay attention to what the media says, let alone what fans say. This is a fact. I know this because various Jackrabbit football players have told me this. The only exception they told me was TOB. TOB supposedly read the forum.

I hope the dominance is over. I think it is over. But who knows. I also think losing Bohl is going to catch up with them too. They won with Bohl's players.

[TransAmBison]

Re: The end of NDSU domination

This thread delivers.