How long until Student-athletes become Athlete-students & get paid?

[SF_Rabbit_Fan]

Re: How long until Student-athletes become Athlete-students & get paid?

These athletes are really getting world-class educations, though. Right?

http://www.sbnation.com/lookit/2014/...-scandal-paper

I'm sure UNC is the only school doing stuff like this. /s

[SF_Rabbit_Fan]

Re: How long until Student-athletes become Athlete-students & get paid?

This is outrageous, the AD getting a 18K bonus for having one wrestling champion. I bet he hardly knows who the wrestler is. Ohio State is a big place.

Ya, but I bet he will shake his hand and give him a slap on the back at a dinner for raising funds from rich donors. Might even print out a recommendation letter when the kid graduates and has to find a job. Totally worth it.

[OldHare]

Re: How long until Student-athletes become Athlete-students & get paid?

Title 19 in SD has to do with Medicaid at least that where my GOOGLE Search lead me. You might expand on that. Personally, I don't have a dog in this fight. It sounded like a one Federal Judge ruling. This case may not go any where, which will allow College Presidents egos to grow with each Sweet 16 appearance. These are the real culprits imo.

I may have misquoted the title, but there will need to be gender equality for sports. If you have 100 scholarships for men, then there needs to be a like number available for women. If you pay the football player $10, you may be liable to pay the woman tennis player $10 or some equal treatment. You would need to at least pay women and men athletes equally in same sport areas. I can envision many legal hours of billing in the future for bias of some sort. Title IX

[Nidaros]

Re: How long until Student-athletes become Athlete-students & get paid?

Ya, but I bet he will shake his hand and give him a slap on the back at a dinner for raising funds from rich donors. Might even print out a recommendation letter when the kid graduates and has to find a job. Totally worth it.

Yes this poor guy will be used for fund raising purposes. Next year ask the AD about this guy. His response will be WHHOO?

[JimmyJack]

Re: How long until Student-athletes become Athlete-students & get paid?

I think it's important to understand what is actually being proposed in the discussion of paying student athletes. Proponents point out that scholarships do NOT cover the full cost of attendance. What is being proposed is a small stipend (perhaps $2,000 to $3,000) that would close the gap between the value of the scholarship and the total cost of attendance. What are the other costs? Gas money. Clothing. Coffee at the Union. Money to see a movie once in a while. Basically what it costs to live above and beyond what a scholarship pays for.

Students on academic scholarship can work (4-5 hours flipping burgers) to supplement themselves and cover those costs. Students on athletic scholarships generally cannot work during the school year. Anybody here think Zach Zenner has time to take a part-time job at McDonald's? So... Who covers the gap between the cost of living as a student and the scholarship awards? Parents do. And in many cases, for example first-generation college students, that supplement is a significant burden.

If we're asking these student athletes to train year-round and they don't have time to work, it seems reasonable to boost the scholarship awards a little by including a small stipend so they can live like regular students.

So we're not talking about student athletes getting rich here. I have come full circle on this since I came to understand the actual proposal rather than the anecdotes that get passed around.

And by the way, citing an instance or two where cheating occurred is a disservice to the vast majority of student athletes who are hard workers and are very grateful for the opportunities they are being given.

[MontanaRabbit]

Re: How long until Student-athletes become Athlete-students & get paid?

These athletes are really getting world-class educations, though. Right?

http://www.sbnation.com/lookit/2014/...-scandal-paper

I'm sure UNC is the only school doing stuff like this. /s

So what does this have to do with the athletes wanting to unionize? You could dig up hundreds....maybe thousands of issues like this. Stuff like this is wrong no doubt, but it runs rampid in the NCAA. When you have coaches and administrators making the salaries they do and factor in some of the bonuses that are available (yes the $18k bonus to the Ohio State AD) you are asking for people to cheat. There are no doubt changes that need to be made, but I don't see how unionizing the players will accomplish a thing.

Their wanting to unionize is about the money......they want paid. You won't convince me otherwise. These kids whining about having to put in too many hours need to man up. I knew a lot of kids that worked 20+ hours per week and still had to borrow money to pay for school. They also didn't get any benefits like free tutoring, meals, etc.

I'm still paying for college (7 years later) but realize that my degree is gonna be worth way more to me in the long run than what I'm going to pay. You will never convince me a scholarship athlete is getting a raw deal.

Now the NCAA selling all the merchandise, etc....well that's another story.

[MontanaRabbit]

Re: How long until Student-athletes become Athlete-students & get paid?

I think it's important to understand what is actually being proposed in the discussion of paying student athletes. Proponents point out that scholarships do NOT cover the full cost of attendance. What is being proposed is a small stipend (perhaps $2,000 to $3,000) that would close the gap between the value of the scholarship and the total cost of attendance. What are the other costs? Gas money. Clothing. Coffee at the Union. Money to see a movie once in a while. Basically what it costs to live above and beyond what a scholarship pays for.

Students on academic scholarship can work (4-5 hours flipping burgers) to supplement themselves and cover those costs. Students on athletic scholarships generally cannot work during the school year. Anybody here think Zach Zenner has time to take a part-time job at McDonald's? So... Who covers the gap between the cost of living as a student and the scholarship awards? Parents do. And in many cases, for example first-generation college students, that supplement is a significant burden.

If we're asking these student athletes to train year-round and they don't have time to work, it seems reasonable to boost the scholarship awards a little by including a small stipend so they can live like regular students.

So we're not talking about student athletes getting rich here. I have come full circle on this since I came to understand the actual proposal rather than the anecdotes that get passed around.

And by the way, citing an instance or two where cheating occurred is a disservice to the vast majority of student athletes who are hard workers and are very grateful for the opportunities they are being given.

I think most people could live with this, but I don't think we need an athletic union to accomplish this. From what I've heard recently it's really gained steam.

[goon]

Re: How long until Student-athletes become Athlete-students & get paid?

I think it's important to understand what is actually being proposed in the discussion of paying student athletes. Proponents point out that scholarships do NOT cover the full cost of attendance. What is being proposed is a small stipend (perhaps $2,000 to $3,000) that would close the gap between the value of the scholarship and the total cost of attendance. What are the other costs? Gas money. Clothing. Coffee at the Union. Money to see a movie once in a while. Basically what it costs to live above and beyond what a scholarship pays for.

Students on academic scholarship can work (4-5 hours flipping burgers) to supplement themselves and cover those costs. Students on athletic scholarships generally cannot work during the school year. Anybody here think Zach Zenner has time to take a part-time job at McDonald's? So... Who covers the gap between the cost of living as a student and the scholarship awards? Parents do. And in many cases, for example first-generation college students, that supplement is a significant burden.

If we're asking these student athletes to train year-round and they don't have time to work, it seems reasonable to boost the scholarship awards a little by including a small stipend so they can live like regular students.

So we're not talking about student athletes getting rich here. I have come full circle on this since I came to understand the actual proposal rather than the anecdotes that get passed around.

And by the way, citing an instance or two where cheating occurred is a disservice to the vast majority of student athletes who are hard workers and are very grateful for the opportunities they are being given.

I guess take out a loan for a couple thousand a year if that is all that is "needed". Again, no one forces kids to go to college to play sports. I would assume many still take out loans for cost of living etc. The arguement would then carry over to any scholarship recipient. Since the money would come from the college they attend, what would stop other students from unionizing to get more scholarship money, or cost of living payments etc. Again, I think looking at ways to reform the NCAA would be a good start which would benefit student athletes.

[da_coach]

Re: How long until Student-athletes become Athlete-students & get paid?

I'm not certain where to stand on this issue. I do love college athletics and I think they play an important role in society, and as others have mentioned...many sports exist because the universities have the money to fund them because of the money taken in by the "big sports".

So, I'm not anti-college, or anti-ncaa by any means.

But when you see the money the universities are making off these TV contracts for FB and BB, and let's not kid ourselves it is BIG money...what was the TV Deal the PAC 12 got? 3 Billion or something along those lines? 3 Billion Dollars?

And the athletes performing...the ones that people are paying to see are making nothing except scholarship money.

The Company Store line, is a great line. The NCAA, and it's member schools are profiting (greatly) on the performance of unpaid athletes.

I'm really unsure where to stand on this issue. I can see both sides of the argument. It's definitely intruiging, and there are going to be some sort of changes coming, IMO.

[RabbitObsessed]

Re: How long until Student-athletes become Athlete-students & get paid?

I find it ... humorous that we all enjoy criticizing the NCAA for all of its faults, but when something gets brought up about the athletes banding together so that they can have something similar to the NCAA (a large, organized body [yes, I'm calling the NCAA organized]) things get said like "just take out a loan" or "they don't need to unionize."

Why should the NCAA make millions (billions?) of dollars, but Zach Zenner has to take out a loan to cover his cost of living? Yes, student athletes get an education. Yes, educations are expensive and many athletes get them paid for. That's ****ing awesome, too. But taking that into account, the NCAA still makes **** tons of money off of the athletes. If it was really, truly about giving an education, or being a collegiate athlete, couldn't the NCAA cut down on it's profit margins and give some of that money back?

Maybe I'm in the minority, but I always get confused why the little guy becomes the villain in these issues. If the NBA or NFL players go on strike, they are decreed as greedy millionaires. So people take the side of the ... billionaire. We're really trying to argue for the NCAA to keep making money and not give more of it back to the actual athletes? Really?

[Theee Catrabbit]

Re: How long until Student-athletes become Athlete-students & get paid?

I find it ... humorous that we all enjoy criticizing the NCAA for all of its faults, but when something gets brought up about the athletes banding together so that they can have something similar to the NCAA (a large, organized body [yes, I'm calling the NCAA organized]) things get said like "just take out a loan" or "they don't need to unionize."

Why should the NCAA make millions (billions?) of dollars, but Zach Zenner has to take out a loan to cover his cost of living? Yes, student athletes get an education. Yes, educations are expensive and many athletes get them paid for. That's ****ing awesome, too. But taking that into account, the NCAA still makes **** tons of money off of the athletes. If it was really, truly about giving an education, or being a collegiate athlete, couldn't the NCAA cut down on it's profit margins and give some of that money back?

Maybe I'm in the minority, but I always get confused why the little guy becomes the villain in these issues. If the NBA or NFL players go on strike, they are decreed as greedy millionaires. So people take the side of the ... billionaire. We're really trying to argue for the NCAA to keep making money and not give more of it back to the actual athletes? Really?

I don't often agree with RabbitObsessed. But when I do. His posts look like this ^^^^^^^^^^

[filbert]

Re: How long until Student-athletes become Athlete-students & get paid?

I find it ... humorous that we all enjoy criticizing the NCAA for all of its faults, but when something gets brought up about the athletes banding together so that they can have something similar to the NCAA (a large, organized body [yes, I'm calling the NCAA organized]) things get said like "just take out a loan" or "they don't need to unionize."

Why should the NCAA make millions (billions?) of dollars, but Zach Zenner has to take out a loan to cover his cost of living? Yes, student athletes get an education. Yes, educations are expensive and many athletes get them paid for. That's ****ing awesome, too. But taking that into account, the NCAA still makes **** tons of money off of the athletes. If it was really, truly about giving an education, or being a collegiate athlete, couldn't the NCAA cut down on it's profit margins and give some of that money back?

Maybe I'm in the minority, but I always get confused why the little guy becomes the villain in these issues. If the NBA or NFL players go on strike, they are decreed as greedy millionaires. So people take the side of the ... billionaire. We're really trying to argue for the NCAA to keep making money and not give more of it back to the actual athletes? Really?

Just to put up a slender tent-pole of fact to inform the discussion going forward:

The NCAA had gross revenues in their fiscal year ending August 31, 2013 of $912,804,046 (just under a billion dollars). Their gross expenses were $852,052,054, for a "change in net assets" (because they're a non-profit organization, you see) of $60,751,992.

Something like three-fourths of that revenue ($681M in FY2013) comes from the NCAA Division I men's basketball tournament television contracts.

Info from here:

National Collegiate Athletic Association and Subsidiaries

I do imagine the conversations at NCAA headquarters regarding what to do with that $60M of "profit" got lively at times . . .

[filbert]

Re: How long until Student-athletes become Athlete-students & get paid?

And this here document relates what the NCAA actually does with all that money:

2013-14 Revenue Distribution Plan

(Actually, that portion of the money that the NCAA sends back to the member universities, I guess . . .)

[SF_Rabbit_Fan]

Re: How long until Student-athletes become Athlete-students & get paid?

So what does this have to do with the athletes wanting to unionize? You could dig up hundreds....maybe thousands of issues like this. Stuff like this is wrong no doubt, but it runs rampid in the NCAA. When you have coaches and administrators making the salaries they do and factor in some of the bonuses that are available (yes the $18k bonus to the Ohio State AD) you are asking for people to cheat. There are no doubt changes that need to be made, but I don't see how unionizing the players will accomplish a thing.

Their wanting to unionize is about the money......they want paid. You won't convince me otherwise. These kids whining about having to put in too many hours need to man up. I knew a lot of kids that worked 20+ hours per week and still had to borrow money to pay for school. They also didn't get any benefits like free tutoring, meals, etc.

I'm still paying for college (7 years later) but realize that my degree is gonna be worth way more to me in the long run than what I'm going to pay. You will never convince me a scholarship athlete is getting a raw deal.

Now the NCAA selling all the merchandise, etc....well that's another story.

Not much, just trying to point out that for many college athletes, academics is pretty low or non-existent on the priority list. We like to pretend all colleges and all college athletes have the same priorities as Ivy League schools and Ivy League students, they don't.

Can anyone name what major Joel Embiid is pursuing? How about Cam Newton? Chris Webber? Derrick Coleman? (taps microphone) Is this thing on?

These are not student athletes, and they did not go to college for academics. These are young people, often poor minorities, who are being used to increase profits for rich men in suits.

"Go pro right out of high school then."

More rich men in suits work together to keep you out of their league. Of course, they also have the best interests of these young people at heart. They only want to prevent players like Kwame Brown from becoming busts in the NBA. What a minute, Kwame Brown made $64 million playing in the NBA. Maybe those NBA owners are also acting in their own self interest by trying to safeguard themselves against sinking $64 million into a nearly worthless player...

[MontanaRabbit]

Re: How long until Student-athletes become Athlete-students & get paid?

Not much, just trying to point out that for many college athletes, academics is pretty low or non-existent on the priority list. We like to pretend all colleges and all college athletes have the same priorities as Ivy League schools and Ivy League students, they don't.

Can anyone name what major Joel Embiid is pursuing? How about Cam Newton? Chris Webber? Derrick Coleman? (taps microphone) Is this thing on?

These are not student athletes, and they did not go to college for academics. These are young people, often poor minorities, who are being used to increase profits for rich men in suits.

"Go pro right out of high school then."

More rich men in suits work together to keep you out of their league. Of course, they also have the best interests of these young people at heart. They only want to prevent players like Kwame Brown from becoming busts in the NBA. What a minute, Kwame Brown made $64 million playing in the NBA. Maybe those NBA owners are also acting in their own self interest by trying to safeguard themselves against sinking $64 million into a nearly worthless player...

Maybe the NBA should develop a decent minor league system. Lots and lots and lots of baseball players get drafted right out of high school. They don't get multi million dollar contracts. They sign a minor league deal worth peanuts and the high round draft picks usually get a decent signing bonus. They then work there ass off in the minors to make it to the Show. Most don't make it.

The NBA and NFL are using the NCAA as minor league system and making fistfuls of money off the players that are essentially one and done. I hate one and dones, ie all the guys you listed. They don't have a place in college athletics as far as I'm concerned. I would much rather watch guys like Aaron Craft from Ohio State or Brayden and Jordan then an Embiid. Those guys are the epitome of a student athlete.

The real problem is that the ones really getting rich off the NCAA are the suits as you say. Look up what Tom Izzo or Coach K make per year.