MSU-Mankato

[SF_Rabbit_Fan]

Re: MSU-Mankato

Good thoughts. I completely agree that starting early at SDSU and getting to play against D1 talent for 4 years helped Nate immensely. Also agree completely that his NBA career seems to be paralleling his first few years at SDSU, which is interesting in itself.

The one thing I'd disagree with is that I don't know if I'd go so far as to say he would've had a worse career at Augie. He definitely would have been starting from day 1 at Augie (obviously), so he would have still seen just as many in-game minutes, if not more. But it certainly wouldn't have been at the same level as SDSU offered. So I don't know if his career at Augie would have necessarily been worse than his career at SDSU, he just might not have had a career that ultimately led to a sometimes-starting spot on the Milwaukee Bucks roster.

Either way, I appreciate the open-minded response. That's the type of conversation I was hoping would result.

You are certainly entitled to your opinion, and know more about Augie hoops than me.

However, Augie was 24-7 Nate's freshman year. They didn't exactly NEED him playing like he did as a freshman to be successful (Nagy was fighting for his job). From looking at stats from that year Augie had a senior point guard who averaged 5 apg, started all 31 games, and played about 25 minutes per contest. Nate played 25 minutes as a freshman at State. Maybe Nate beats out that senior to start, but more than likely not. Not to mention Augie wanted him to play shooting guard.

[jacks1]

Re: MSU-Mankato

Zach Monaghan wins tourney MVP. (Per Matt Zimmer)

[bigticket1]

Re: MSU-Mankato

It would be interesting to know if Monaghan would have tranferred to Mankato or somewhere else if his brother would not have been added to the coaching staff there. Or if he would have stayed here.

[Grizzled_Jack]

Re: MSU-Mankato

Interestingly enough, MSUM and the Yotes match up 50-50 in Massey Ratings matchups. Predicted score is USD 75.72, MSUM 75.66. You can push a button and get repeated seven game series. Kind of matches Nagy's comments that his best DII teams would have won about 17 games.

http://masseyratings.com/game.php?s0...+State-Mankato

[MrAugustana]

Re: MSU-Mankato

You are certainly entitled to your opinion, and know more about Augie hoops than me.

However, Augie was 24-7 Nate's freshman year. They didn't exactly NEED him playing like he did as a freshman to be successful (Nagy was fighting for his job). From looking at stats from that year Augie had a senior point guard who averaged 5 apg, started all 31 games, and played about 25 minutes per contest. Nate played 25 minutes as a freshman at State. Maybe Nate beats out that senior to start, but more than likely not. Not to mention Augie wanted him to play shooting guard.

That's a fair point. I had forgotten JD was our starting point guard that year. But even with that, I don't know if Nate would've ended up playing shooting guard for his entire career. At the time, we had Cody Schilling (only a year older than Nate) who was a more natural 2 than 3, so I have a feeling after Dalton graduated we would have ended up shifting Nate over to the point by his sophomore year. For that matter, it's not unreasonable to think Nate could have been a prolific shooting guard anyway, but that's not the point. I'd agree that it's a possibility he wouldn't have gotten quite as many big-time minutes as he got at State his first year, but from the way I've heard Coach Billeter talk about him (even back before Nate was a superstar), I have a feeling he would've been a staple in the Augie starting lineup all four years. Either way, I get what you're saying, and it's why this conversation won't ever really have a true "answer." We'll never actually know how good he would've been at D2. I just wonder how SDSU fans would've reacted to the "could he play at our level" discussion if he had gone to Augie and had at least gotten close to the skill/talent level he eventually reached at State

[MontanaRabbit]

Re: MSU-Mankato

That's a fair point. I had forgotten JD was our starting point guard that year. But even with that, I don't know if Nate would've ended up playing shooting guard for his entire career. At the time, we had Cody Schilling (only a year older than Nate) who was a more natural 2 than 3, so I have a feeling after Dalton graduated we would have ended up shifting Nate over to the point by his sophomore year. For that matter, it's not unreasonable to think Nate could have been a prolific shooting guard anyway, but that's not the point. I'd agree that it's a possibility he wouldn't have gotten quite as many big-time minutes as he got at State his first year, but from the way I've heard Coach Billeter talk about him (even back before Nate was a superstar), I have a feeling he would've been a staple in the Augie starting lineup all four years. Either way, I get what you're saying, and it's why this conversation won't ever really have a true "answer." We'll never actually know how good he would've been at D2. I just wonder how SDSU fans would've reacted to the "could he play at our level" discussion if he had gone to Augie and had at least gotten close to the skill/talent level he eventually reached at State

Anyone who has any knowledge about college basketball will tell you there are many DII players that could be productive members in DI. Filbert put it best by describing the different levels with bell curves that "overlap". That a pretty good analogy. Some DII players will be productive, but most won't.

As far as Nate being a shooting guard. One of the big reasons he came to State was Nagy recruited him specifically to be the point guard. If Nate had played SG in college I don't think he would have gotten drafted. His value is greatest at point guard because he does such a good job running the offense.

[MrAugustana]

Re: MSU-Mankato

It's an interesting topic and it's fun to discuss.

What are your thoughts on Augie potentially going DI?

My thoughts--Augie SHOULD figure out a way to go D1. I totally recognize that they don't have the infrastructure at this point in time, but if they don't start trying to figure it out, they're never going to have the infrastructure they need. But at this point, they're stuck in a steadily-shrinking NCAA level (D2), they're in a 14-team conference that essentially leaves no room for non-conference games, and they are consistently losing out on the type of recruits you need to win a National Championship because those somewhat-tweeners that could either go low-D1 or high-D2 seem to be choosing low-D1 more and more regularly as programs like SDSU/NDSU/etc. continue to gain national recognition.

At the same time, if Augie ever figured out the infrastructure side of things, they'd have a nice advantage at the D1 level being a private, liberal arts college. For those guys who want that small school experience but want to compete at the D1 level, Augie would be a pretty ideal fit. I'm not saying Augie joins the Summit League and the next season ends up becoming conference champs, but I think Augie could pretty quickly become competitive at that level, at least in men's and women's basketball (which I think would be able to find success even more quickly than the men might be able to). On top of that, Sioux Falls is one of the best locations in this region for a D1 school to be located in, which would also be a plus.

The truth is, I don't think they will. I was a student at Augie when those initial D1 discussions were being held, and there were a TON of non-major sport athletes and coaches who were very much opposed to it (track and field, wrestling, even volleyball). The only athletes and coaches who really seemed interested were basketball and a contingent of football players, and I don't know if that has changed at all. On the flip side, it's possible that seeing how successful the D1 move has been for SDSU (and even to a lesser extent, USD) might have started to change some minds. But I've been away from Augie campus-wise in the past few years, so I don't know what the vibe is anymore.

I can't imagine too many true Augie fans and athletes like going to Scheel's in Sioux Falls and seeing entire walls/aisles covered in SDSU/USD gear while Augie has like, two shirts and a cheap hoodie hanging up somewhere in a corner. It's frustrating, to say the least.

All in all, I'd say it's an unlikely dream for the Augie fans who realize the value of playing at a higher level (name recognition, incoming sales from gear/apparel, better recruits, better talent, higher competition levels in terms of athletes, renewed rivalry opportunities, etc.). I do think we'd eventually build a successful D1 program, but until someone in Augie's athletic administration is willing to start taking the steps to prepare for that, I fear we're going to continue to just be little old Augie. And that's disappointing.

[91jack]

Re: MSU-Mankato

So you're saying Monaghan would have started at point, Carlson at the 2, and have Bittle come off the bench? Everyone saw how much SDSU struggled when Bittle was out. I'm pretty sure Nagy would have used this same lineup this year even if Monaghan decided to stay. Monaghan could come off the bench for Bittle then Carlson could move to the 2 guard. No one knows what would have happened. That's just my opinion of what would have happened.

I look at it a little differently. When Bittle was out, the guard rotation had a true freshman(Broman), Horstman or Jacobsen play many more minutes. Either that or SDSU played 3 bigs a lot. You can't just take a starter out and not struggle. But I think that Monaghan would have helped out with a some minutes to bridge the gap.

It's kindof like what happened for the woman's team. When Megan got hurt what happened to that position? You could still start Young and probably not drop of much but when you go from 1st string to 3rd string(Walters) there was more drop off.

I do agree that Carlson and Bittle would have been the starters but Monaghan might have been the #3 guard(behind White of course). Would Broman have redshirted? We'll never know. I think I would have done that and played the guard rotation with Carlson, White, Horstman, Jacobsen and Monaghan. Every once in a while (if need be) play 3 bigs like we did if we had to.

[Jacked_Up]

Re: MSU-Mankato

I think Monaghan would have started at the point this year for the Jacks. Carlson would have stayed at the 2, where he'd played the past few years. Bittle would have pushed White for the starting spot at the 3, but all three of those guys would have seen plenty of action, and Broman could have redshirted. Monaghan played behind Wolters his one year with the Jacks, so he didn't get much court time. He clearly had potential, but apparently lacked patience. He didn't want to come off the bench for second year.

[SkippyJack]

Re: MSU-Mankato

I think there is a whole lot more to ZMs story than "didn't want to come off the bench for a second year". With Nagy you are either in the inner circle of about 7 or you are on another planet. Maybe ZM needed more interaction and to feel he truly belonged and was a valuable contributor.


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[MrAugustana]

Re: MSU-Mankato

I think there is a whole lot more to ZMs story than "didn't want to come off the bench for a second year". With Nagy you are either in the inner circle of about 7 or you are on another planet. Maybe ZM needed more interaction and to feel he truly belonged and was a valuable contributor.


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Interesting. Based on some of his on-court behavior, Monaghan definitely strikes me as the kind of kid who lives for being praised and recognized, so if that's actually the case with Nagy, the transfer would certainly make a lot of sense.

[Nidaros]

Re: MSU-Mankato

Interesting. Based on some of his on-court behavior, Monaghan definitely strikes me as the kind of kid who lives for being praised and recognized, so if that's actually the case with Nagy, the transfer would certainly make a lot of sense.

Its hard to say what went on in his final conversations with Coach Nagy. I really think that his brother getting on the staff at MSU-Man was an influence in the transfer. Can we put this to rest?

[RabbitObsessed]

Re: MSU-Mankato

I think there is a whole lot more to ZMs story than "didn't want to come off the bench for a second year". With Nagy you are either in the inner circle of about 7 or you are on another planet. Maybe ZM needed more interaction and to feel he truly belonged and was a valuable contributor.


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Inner circle. Lol.

[JackrabbitGuy]

Re: MSU-Mankato

I think there is a whole lot more to ZMs story than "didn't want to come off the bench for a second year". With Nagy you are either in the inner circle of about 7 or you are on another planet. Maybe ZM needed more interaction and to feel he truly belonged and was a valuable contributor.


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Is Nagy's inner circle like the Jack Burns circle of trust?

[TK22867]

Re: MSU-Mankato

Inner circle. Lol.

Whatcha gonna do when they come for you.