NCAA screw job

[Cowbell]

Re: NCAA screw job

I think it's fair to say that the people who come on this board, for the most part, rarely do much barking about the officials. The fact that there is so much commentary about what happened the other night speaks volumes.

[JimmyJack]

Re: NCAA screw job

I told my wife she tore her ACL. Hopefully I was wrong. What did she do to it?

When she came back and played, I thought it might be a partial MCL tear. You can play with that, although it hurts a lot. Having had 5 knee surgeries myself, I was sympathetic to her plight. She's a competitor and wanted to continue to play. I think EQGuy made the point that adrenaline in a moment of great emotion like the shot by Griffin, can overcome a lot of things. Allison might have jumped around then. I'll bet she's not jumping around today.

I understand (and share) the frustration, but I tend to agree with "just me" that complaining about the refs diminishes the luster of a great game. I've always thought SDSU fans were above that (recall how we reacted to the incessant whining of NDSU fans after the Dakota Marker game).

But I'm not telling anybody how to feel about this. If you're mad, a discussion board is a good place to vent. We all had a lot of emotion invested in that team.

[EQguy]

Re: NCAA screw job

Fair enough, but just so everyone is one the record, fans really believe her writhing on the floor in pain (and anyone who has watched WBB for awhile immediately thinks ACL when they see that), going to the locker room to get the knee wrapped, limping around when she came back in and continuing to limp badly after the game was an elaborate scheme to get a player who has only shot 8 free throws all year long into the game? Doesn't that seem a little far fetched?

Nobody has said there was some elaborate scheme. I think if you look back at the game thread here and at the argus site you'll see that people felt bad for her and didn't want to see things end like that. The disappointing part is she was well enough to play and then as soon as she got fouled she started hopping around. The refs didn't even take a second look and just let Mulkey sub for her. Again, if our guy had gotten away with it you would have been screaming and we would be calling him a genius.
Now, what you don't need to do is come here and play victim. Just because the girl who subbed in only shot 8 freethrows all year doesn't mean she's not one of your top shooters off the bench. I had a friend that played college basketball and for his first year or so the main time he got off the bench was when the team needed a 3 or when someone was hurt and he needed to sub to shoot foul shots.

[Cowbell]

Re: NCAA screw job

One of the many things I love about AJ is how he keeps things in a positive light when speaking to the public or the press. I think it spills over to the players. Jenn W's comment about the defense getting lazy is a good example of that. Well that's the public side. In a few months, when the cameras are off and there are no reporters in sight, I'd love to hear the real take by AJ or some of the players. It won't change anything but it would be interesting to know what they really thought about Tuesday night.

What amazes me is the number of people in South Dakota who watched that game. A lot of them had never watched a women's basketball game before. To go toe-to-toe with an outstanding program like Baylor lifted the vision and spirits of many people-young and old.

We've arrived.

[zooropa]

Re: NCAA screw job

I told my wife she tore her ACL. Hopefully I was wrong. What did she do to it?

Nobody knows yet. I expect that nobody will know until this weekend.

I hate to say it but the Waco Trib writer doesn't seem like he's going to try and track down her status before then.

[BitsTD]

Re: NCAA screw job

I told my wife she tore her ACL. Hopefully I was wrong. What did she do to it?

[just me]

Re: NCAA screw job

If Allison was on our team and AJ did the same thing that Mulkey did we'd be calling him a genious and you gus would be bitching about the switch.

Fair enough, but just so everyone is one the record, fans really believe her writhing on the floor in pain (and anyone who has watched WBB for awhile immediately thinks ACL when they see that), going to the locker room to get the knee wrapped, limping around when she came back in and continuing to limp badly after the game was an elaborate scheme to get a player who has only shot 8 free throws all year long into the game? Doesn't that seem a little far fetched?

[zooropa]

Re: NCAA screw job

I thought the officiating was curious last night to say the least. But what I found even more curious was when ESPN came back from a commercial break and one of the officials was in the Baylor huddle discussing something with the Baylor coach and patting herself (official) on the chest like she did something wrong. I am an official myself and the first lesson you're taught is when the ball is dead you are nowhere near the coaches. In Basketball you're taught to spend your time on the free throw line away from the coaches and in football you are told to walk out to the numbers and spend your time there. There is plenty of time to discuss calls with the sideline when the ball is in play and it doesn't look so suspicious. Very curious?

Like the #7 seed; AJ was probably not expecting close calls to go his way, but some of that stuff that they 'suddenly' decided to call when SDSU was running away from Baylor was downright rotten.

IMO the referreeing fell into a few different 'stages':

- At the beginning they were letting both teams get away with stuff.

- Then they tightened the screws on SDSU.

- Then they started calling makeup fouls on Baylor--effectively tightening the screws on everyone.

(2nd half)

- first few minutes, more of the same: whistle-happy officiating

- balance of the game: favored the Jacks who were being more aggressive going to the hole.

----

It was, above all else, not =consistently= officiated, and because of that, and the socialization with the Baylor coaching staff (it looked like Mulkey had managed to maneuver the ref between her and the scorer's table in the instance you're talking about, but not necessarily into the huddle--if my memory serves), the refs became a storyline to the game.

But I don't think the differential was enough to change the outcome. If SDSU went in the lockerroom with an 8 point lead, even, IMO it would've still come down to the wire, judging by how well Baylor's handled situations like that.

[just me]

Re: NCAA screw job

10 to 4 five shooting fouls of the ten

So, if my math is right, in the remaining 27 minutes of the game 10 fouls were called on SDSU and 14 on Baylor. Correct? Does that mean they got the screw job the remainder of the game? Does it not seem odd to blame refs and call it a screw job when the foul differential was only 2? Doesn't whining about the refs diminish the luster of a great game?

[EQguy]

Re: NCAA screw job

One team bumped cutters, extended arms to touch players with the ball (supposed to be an automatic holding foul),

Listen Just me, both teams played their fair share of rough basketball. But coming on our site and trying to reason with us right now is like trying to reason with your girlfriend right after telling her you made out with another woman but she didn't mean anything to you. We are all just a little overemotional right now. We loved this team and are very disappointed right now.

Now, the fouls did end up even but the stretch of about 8 minutes in the first half where fouls were called 10-4 on us was unreal.

If Allison was on our team and AJ did the same thing that Mulkey did we'd be calling him a genious and you gus would be bitching about the switch.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. There was a stretch late in the game where the Jacks played amazing defense and got something like 7 stops in 9 trips. The problem is they turned the ball over, threw up airballs or took bad shots in something like 7 of the 9 ensuing trips in the offensive end. That stretch started with the Jacks up 4 and ended with the Jacks up 2. Take out some mental errors and the Jacks are up at least 8 with under 4 minutes to go and the game is over.

It was a great game. I am still disappointed for our ladies, I just refuse to lash out irrationally.

[6-4-3 Jackrabbit]

Re: NCAA screw job

I thought the officiating was curious last night to say the least. But what I found even more curious was when ESPN came back from a commercial break and one of the officials was in the Baylor huddle discussing something with the Baylor coach and patting herself (official) on the chest like she did something wrong. I am an official myself and the first lesson you're taught is when the ball is dead you are nowhere near the coaches. In Basketball you're taught to spend your time on the free throw line away from the coaches and in football you are told to walk out to the numbers and spend your time there. There is plenty of time to discuss calls with the sideline when the ball is in play and it doesn't look so suspicious. Very curious?

[zooropa]

Re: NCAA screw job

as did Frank F., who has more knowledge of this game than any of us

"We got lazy on defense and started fouling"

Jenn W.

http://www.ncaa.com/sports/w-baskbl/...032509aae.html

[Rabbitden]

Re: NCAA screw job

However, IMO, it would be a mistake to put SDSU on such a pedestal as to say they could've ran away from Baylor the same way they ran away from TCU, and that the -refs- took that opportunity away from the Jacks.

I'm not going to waste much breath on you Zoopra, I was not indicating they would run away with anything. I was simply stating as did Frank F., who has more knowledge of this game than any of us, that the officiating forced SDSU out of their game plan when it was moving to a twenty point spread. Now, who do you want me to believe, your humble opinion or my own eyes and man that has 30 plus years coaching in the NCAA? The only pedestal I am putting on these ladies is what they have done for the youth in our great state, that and only that.

P.S. I will not respond back to you, I've learned through 700 + post of yours how much of an expert you are in all walks of life.

[SturgisJeff]

Re: NCAA screw job

Just me...what was the foul count in the first 13 minutes when Baylor was down by 12. Baylor plays in the Mighty Big 12. Supposed to be a physical conference and were getting beat at their own game. When the fouls started getting called is also as the announcers said when SDSU had to pull out of their game plan and Baylor was able to get back in to the game. Did it win or lose the game? Not really because SDSU had its chances in the end. Did it turn the tied of the game? For sure, it could of been a 20 point lead by half, instead it was 1.

Either way, the Jacks had a wonderful year and I am proud of them. Baylor, good job but the better team did get beat last night.

What I wonder the most right now is how many little girls in the State of SD got up this morning wanting to hit the gym because of what they witnessed from, as so many Baylor fans spouted;"farm girls" proving they can play with anyone. Even when they did not play their best. That is what makes me feel proud.

10 to 4 five shooting fouls of the ten

[zooropa]

Re: NCAA screw job

I'm telling you---as I saw it--some of the calls were ridiculous, but some of them were because SDSU was kind of 'sitting on' Baylor. Baylor was being aggressive in the paint and both teams were being a bit sloppy down there, and we all know that sloppy play by two teams in the paint is going to mean fouls on the defenders. Jenn W. herself, who probably has more working knowledge of basketball than this board combined, said the team commited some dumb fouls.

Now that -in no way- excuses the cheap ticky-tacky stuff that took Morgan Meier out, or one of the fouls on Cornemann.

However, IMO, it would be a mistake to put SDSU on such a pedestal as to say they could've ran away from Baylor the same way they ran away from TCU, and that the -refs- took that opportunity away from the Jacks.