NCAA screw job

[zooropa]

Re: NCAA screw job

Cannot agree with this at all, that it looked close or would be called nine out of 10 times.

My opinion is that Young was called for the foul because of the proximity of both players' arms and Young's being almost (but not quite) in contact with the Baylor player.

At real life speed, I think the ref blows that call a lot.

Notice I didn't say that play would be a foul nine times out of ten, but that the ref calls a foul nine times out of ten. It looks like a foul occurs if your assumption is 'there's no way their hands didn't get tied up, and because she was in pursuit, the defender initiated the contact, ergo, foul on #10.'

How often have you seen instant replays of breakaway 3 point plays, with the announcers saying, "you know, I just don't see the foul there...."?

Without knowing all the particulars of officiating in basketball, I can only use a few analogies: in baseball first base umps are taught to watch the bag and listen for the sound of the ball in the glove (at least that used to be the case) because if you watch the ball into the glove and then look down to the bag the baserunner's foot may already be there.

In football, refs are taught to watch D-linemen's names and numbers--if they get distorted, they're being held. Why? Well, what else is an O-lineman going to hold? The O-lineman grabs the D-lineman outside the permitted area and it will twist the D-lineman's jersey. The ref can see that and throws the flag.

Point being, where officials can't see something exactly (either because they can't look two places at once, or because they're not in position to see what's actually going on), they rely on certain cues. In this case, I think (not saying it for certain, but it's what I think happened), the ref saw Young's right arm almost immediately under Morrow's (?) right arm with apparent contact between Young and Morrow that had to be called, split second--and IMO the arms -almost- entwined, the pursuit, and the near contact were enough to make the ref jump to a conclusion that wasn't supported by review.

[jackmd]

Re: NCAA screw job

Quite a discussion with a lot of interesting points. Fact is we deserved a better seed, better location to play the games and a better job of officiating regardless of any perceived bias. None of it matters now, we lost, Baylor won and they move on.

Fact, it was bush league to pull a player after she rebounded the ball and was fouled. Thats not an opinion thats a fact. If you are going to let an injured player back on the court you risk that player being further injured or fouled. She should have shot the FT's.

Mulkey has a resume that has earned her respect as one of the best coaches at the DI level. I had a certain level of respect for that until I watched her in person in Lubbock. I'll never cheer for a Mulkey coached team, I don't care what "complements" she pays to us.

Have some respect for the women who put their heart on the line and stand up for them. They got back-handed by the NCAA. We can't change the outcome of the game. We had a great year and it came to an end largely because of circumstances entirely out of our control. I think that sucks and I'm not afraid to say it.

The NCAA can kiss my grits on this deal. Screw job.

[1stRowFANatic]

Re: NCAA screw job

Yeah, but the defender's going to get called on that nine times out of ten. It looked close from the initial angle, and from the ref's viewpoint behind Young, it's almost always going to be called. It wasn't a foul but it sure looked like one.

Cannot agree with this at all, that it looked close or would be called nine out of 10 times. When you look at the play and where the ref was standing (behind Jill), the turn of both players indicates that Jill does not in any way impede the Baylor player. The Baylor player (can't remember her name at the moment) begins to the outside of Jill and cuts to the middle of the court. Jill's inside and back foot fall back towards the ref indicating that she is pullling away from where the Baylor player is moving. Jill's inside arm (right) moves towards her back as the Baylor player passes. Jill's left arm is too far behind the Baylor player to have fouled her, and then she is past Jill. At no point did the Baylor player's momentum and direction get altered. At best the ref at that end of the play could not see if there was any body contact and should know that the two trailing officials would have a much better view on the play especially since it was not in a half court set.

Did that call lose the game for us? Nope.

[SturgisJeff]

Re: NCAA screw job

big 12 and mid con. We didn't have a chance such the luck.

[zooropa]

Re: NCAA screw job

Mid-Continent,

Well, there's your problem right there.

[SturgisJeff]

Re: NCAA screw job

CAMP DIRECTOR Profile Randy Campbell</B>
rcampbell0614@msn.com </B>
Phone: 719-481-8029
Fax:719-481-6018 Currently works as an official for NCAA Division I Women's Basketball in the Big 12, Mountain West, Missouri Valley, Sun Belt, Mid-Continent, and Pac-10 conferences.
Has officiated in the NCAA Division I Women's Basketball Tournament the past ten years, including six NCAA Regionals.
Has worked in numerous Post-Season Basketball tournaments and also works as a Football official in the Mountain West Conference.
www.stripezone.com/sz/randyCampbell.asp

Sorry about but I figured we should know something about the refs. I'll let it go now.

[filbert]

Re: NCAA screw job

and yet, after 119 posts, the final score remains the same . . .

. . .

oops, 120 posts . . .

[SturgisJeff]

Re: NCAA screw job

Mary Day
Want to share a
photo of this ref? Seasons tracked: 1998-1998
Total games: 1
States visited: 0
Most common conferences:SEC Rate this ref:
Last 3 seasons G FPG FSTD HM DQs Techs Ejections
1998-1999: 1 36.0 0.0 -12.0 1 0 0 Since 1996: 1 36.0 0.0 -12.0 1 0 0


Mary Day the other ref. Old stats but if she called 36 fouls in one game, her first, then ???

statsheet.com/mcb/referees/browse/D

[SturgisJeff]

Re: NCAA screw job

I will admit when I make a mistake - so please don’t keep harping on it for the entire game! It is really not in my best interest to make a mistake. I am judged on my performance just like you are. I had a game at UCLA about three or four years ago when Baylor came to visit. This was a big game and it had barely started and I made just a really bad call on a Baylor player and I knew it. I could see the Baylor coach get up out of her seat and get ready to blast me. As I ran by, she yelled, "Melissa that was horrible! I can’t believe you made that call!" I was not happy with myself and knew she was right. As luck would have it, I also had the next call, which put me right in front of her. I knew it was coming and she let me have it. "That was the worst call I’ve seen in a long time. I can’t believe you called that. You are usually better than that!" Before I even realized what came out of my mouth, I said, "Coach, you’re right. But don’t give up on me yet - there’s a lot of game left." She didn’t say anything at first and I thought, "Wow that was a stupid thing to say because now you’ve given her even more angles to come at you even harder." As I was bracing for the next volley, she sat down and simply said, "Okay girl." I appreciated that chance and I didn’t have any more foul ups that game.

Melissa Barlow= one of the refs in the Bayler v State game.
http://probasketball.about.com/od/ho...lowreftips.htm

Melissa Barlow

Melissa Barlow has been a member of the WNBA officiating staff since its inception in 1997 and has worked the WNBA finals. She also has 15 years of experience as an NCAA Division I referee, and currently works in the Pac 10, Western Athletic, Mountain West, West Coast, and Big XII conferences. Melissa has worked ten NCAA tournaments, four national semifinal games, and four National Championship games. She is the 2004 Naismith Award recipient for women’s basketball. Melissa received a degree in biology from Pomona College in Claremont, California, where she also played basketball. She is a sales director for a pharmaceutical firm and enjoys golf, gardening and bicycling. Melissa resides in Long Beach, California.

[zooropa]

Re: NCAA screw job

Was that the foul called on Young? I was working on homework and my roommate was watching the game and he yelled "BULLSH*T!" at the top of his lungs and I looked up and it showed the replay going to commercial break and the angle was from under the basket and that was a TERRIBLE call. Jill didn't touch her at all on that lay-up.

Yeah, but the defender's going to get called on that nine times out of ten. It looked close from the initial angle, and from the ref's viewpoint behind Young, it's almost always going to be called. It wasn't a foul but it sure looked like one.

[RabbitObsessed]

Re: NCAA screw job

a phantom foul and three-point play by Baylor,

Was that the foul called on Young? I was working on homework and my roommate was watching the game and he yelled "BULLSH*T!" at the top of his lungs and I looked up and it showed the replay going to commercial break and the angle was from under the basket and that was a TERRIBLE call. Jill didn't touch her at all on that lay-up.

[TeamPlayer]

Re: NCAA screw job

I disagree with anyone who thinks the two lady ref's didn't cost SDSU the game. Granted, inspite of the bad ref'n we had opportunities to win it. However, when SDSU was up by 14 and within a short span of 5-6 minutes later we have all our staters with 2-3 fouls each, any coach/player will tell you that your play has to change to play softer and give up some easy buckets just to keep your starters in the game.

Without that one sided ref'n, for the period where SDSU had an opportunity to put Baylor away with a 14 pt lead and building (just as they did TCU), I believe the ladies would have played as hard as they did all year and made it impossible for Baylor to come within double digits of the Jacks. Bad foul calls one way swung the momentum to Baylor, not bad fouls by the Jacks'.

[JimmyJack]

Re: NCAA screw job

During one stretch near the end, we had a missed three by Young, a phantom foul and three-point play by Baylor, an airballed three by Muck, and a turnover by Rotert.

Any one of those possessions goes differently, and we're not having this discussion. It's just basketball. Bad officiating certainly comes with the territory (I saw three WELL-officiated games this year... and I saw all the home games.) We didn't make plays when we needed to, and when we opened the door, Griffin made a play. Game over.

It's frustrating as heck, no doubt. But it's the way things go sometimes.

I think this was particularly hard because fans didn't see the other two losses. One was a distant memory in Cancun, and the other was an early conference season game at Oakland. It's shocking because we had come to presume that these young women would always find a way to win.

[SoDakJack]

Re: NCAA screw job

The officiating was suspect, but it did not cost the Jacks the game. It was a combination of poor shooting, and along with that, a few bad choices of shots.

How many times has Jill Young missed a wide open three? Not very often. And I would let her take that shot 100% of the time. Had she hit the open one with about 3 minutes left they would have been up 7. Instead baylor come down and gets a three point play. That is a 6 point swing.

Jenn was a perfect 18-18 in free throws in the Summit tournament. She is so good at them that AJ feels comfortable taking a time out so he can set his defense. She just happened to miss one.

The key to this loss was missed opportunities. It is easy to blame the refs because they did ruin the flow for both teams.

That being said, this year was a great year to build our reputation in D1 ball. Next year will be even more exciting now with our assumed pre-season ranking (another first for the program).

Great year ladies! And a great job in the tournament. One win and a great learning experience.

[minnesotarabbit]

Re: NCAA screw job

If the front of our uniforms would of said Baylor, we would of had a 15+ first half lead & won for sure.