GDT: SDSU vs NDSU 7pm Scheel's Center SLN

[discoDancinRabbit]

I am not sure if that is what actually happens BUT your thought is definitely valid!! would you think when 2 players are so so close that you might check out the overall stats for additional info?


here is a related question.

what do we think? did most of the voters believe that Koenen is the best basketball player? or just the most valuable player?

God no you cant go cherry picking obscure non conference numbers if youve already defined the award to the conference only. I guess Im not certain if thats what they include or not.

[LetsGoRabbits]

God no you cant go cherry picking obscure non conference numbers if youve already defined the award to the conference only. I guess Im not certain if thats what they include or not.

not a big deal here in anyway! I am curious what you mean by cherry picking? and obscure numbers? not cherry picking any specific stat. my point is that Brooklyn has better stats overall and did it vs better competition. the clear suggestion for that would be that she IS the better player

[discoDancinRabbit]

not a big deal here in anyway! I am curious what you mean by cherry picking? and obscure numbers? not cherry picking any specific stat. my point is that Brooklyn has better stats overall and did it vs better competition. the clear suggestion for that would be that she IS the better player

hypothetical/general you, not personal

I agree, well its an objective fact she played better competition. I'm not seeing better stats overall though. Pretty much even

[LetsGoRabbits]

another thought here. Bison were rewarded VERY loud and VERY clear for winning the league. they won LITERALLY every award but ONE!

they won the league by ONE stinking game over a team they split with. they were made to look VERY meek in the loss to the second place team!!

by comparison the Jacks have won the league UNDEFEATED for 3 straight years. in those 3 years we won with a 6 game lead, a 3 game lead, and a 4 game lead.

did we EVER come close to sweeping the awards? absolutely not

Last year we won by 4 games and won NONE of the player individual awards. that is correct, NONE!

in none of those years did we have the Freshman or Newcomer of the year.
in 3 years we had-

1 DPOY
1 6th woman
2 POY

I know that I have written plenty about these awards. WHY? cuz it is a rather fun topic. does it matter? not really

I do think the Jacks players have earned the right to have more individual recognition, but the important thing, the thing that REALLY matters is team success. no doubt in any way, THAT is what the Jacks girls focus on!!!

but I would say it is pretty clear that voters are intent to not let the Jacks have individual awards unless they completely run away with it. in other words, if the contest is close, like this year between Koenen and Myer, the award will go to the non Jacks player

[98Jackfarmer]

Koenen rolled her ankle to start the game today. She went out and got taped up but she isn't completely comfortable on it. No Schiller today either for the bizon.

[LetsGoRabbits]

hypothetical/general you, not personal

I agree, well its an objective fact she played better competition. I'm not seeing better stats overall though. Pretty much even

Brooklyn leads in-

Scoring by more than 2.5 points a game (2.5 ppg is a lot)

FG% by 4.5%
FT% by 6%
those are very significant margins in scoring efficiency

Assists by 10 assists on the year


Avery leads in-

Rebounding. this is easily the most dominant category for Avery. she is a VERY GOOD rebounder. i do NOT deny it. it is also true, however, that the two players have a difference in role here! ndsu very much asks Koenen to get all of the boards. the Jacks have much more of a team rebounding approach

Steals by 4 steals on the season


they are tied in blocks in conference games only.

THAT is all the stats the league lists on the conference stat page. I dont know if it adds or subtracts from someones case but Avery played 11 more minutes in conference games.

one thing the stats do not show very well is defense. in conference games the Jacks lead in both points allowed and FG% allowed. In my view, I believe any honest evaluation grades Brooklyn as the better defender

the difference here might be slim, but I am not sure how you look at this and say Brooklyn does not lead. you would have to say that 3 extra rebounds is a LOT more valuable than 2.6 extra points and better efficiency, better assists, and better defense

it seems pretty clear they rewarded the player with slightly less in statistics because her team won the league? no?

[LetsGoRabbits]

hypothetical/general you, not personal

I agree, well its an objective fact she played better competition. I'm not seeing better stats overall though. Pretty much even

there is nothing in this conversation that I ever considered personal.

it is a very common part of the human condition that people can look at the same thing and see different things

[discoDancinRabbit]

Brooklyn leads in-

Scoring by more than 2.5 points a game (2.5 ppg is a lot)

FG% by 4.5%
FT% by 6%
those are very significant margins in scoring efficiency

Assists by 10 assists on the year


Avery leads in-

Rebounding. this is easily the most dominant category for Avery. she is a VERY GOOD rebounder. i do NOT deny it. it is also true, however, that the two players have a difference in role here! ndsu very much asks Koenen to get all of the boards. the Jacks have much more of a team rebounding approach

Steals by 4 steals on the season


they are tied in blocks in conference games only.

THAT is all the stats the league lists on the conference stat page. I dont know if it adds or subtracts from someones case but Avery played 11 more minutes in conference games.

one thing the stats do not show very well is defense. in conference games the Jacks lead in both points allowed and FG% allowed. In my view, I believe any honest evaluation grades Brooklyn as the better defender

the difference here might be slim, but I am not sure how you look at this and say Brooklyn does not lead. you would have to say that 3 extra rebounds is a LOT more valuable than 2.6 extra points and better efficiency, better assists, and better defense

it seems pretty clear they rewarded the player with slightly less in statistics because her team won the league? no?

16 more turnovers than Koenin, good for one valuable possession a game.

[LetsGoRabbits]

16 more turnovers than Koenin, good for one valuable possession a game.

yep that is true.

2 things.


1. TOs are not included on the conference stat page. one might consider if we are using conference only stats that the conference does not consider that an important stat. I will even question does EVERY voter actually look at stats that are not on the conference page?? I might even wonder how much research the voters do at all. ALL the voters are connected to the games. I think it is possible that some of them do not look at any stats at all. they vote totally on what they see from watching

I have NO IDEA if that is true!! i am not calling it a fact!! I do think it is possible


2. IF you trust AJ's perspective and I trust it 100% then you take into account that AJ believes without question that Brooklyn has been pushed and shoved and hit and fouled more than any player he can remember in ALL the time the team has been in the league. I am not saying voters agree with that!! I think smart voters see how often Brooklyn faces 2 or more defenders. i do think these are very relevant facts when you look at TOs


I do think the Jacks girls have earned more recognition than they have gotten in the last 4 years (probably longer), but they are focused on team results. the individual awards are a fun and interesting discussion))!! but not overly important. beyond all that, it seems clear we will not reach 100% agreement and that is rare anyway!! it is rare and totally acceptable. so... you see it as a tie and Avery deserves to win. i see it as very close but with a small edge to Brooklyn and absolutely believe by the eye test that Brooklyn is the better player. she was the better overall player in the two head to head games. we disagree. i can live with that

I think we have probably exhausted this conversation. that is NOT me saying you cannot respond. i hope that is obvious!!! but i will not continue further. i have already stated that the individual awards are not really important in the big picture

[discoDancinRabbit]

yep that is true.

2 things.


1. TOs are not included on the conference stat page. one might consider if we are using conference only stats that the conference does not consider that an important stat. I will even question does EVERY voter actually look at stats that are not on the conference page?? I might even wonder how much research the voters do at all. ALL the voters are connected to the games. I think it is possible that some of them do not look at any stats at all. they vote totally on what they see from watching

I have NO IDEA if that is true!! i am not calling it a fact!! I do think it is possible


2. IF you trust AJ's perspective and I trust it 100% then you take into account that AJ believes without question that Brooklyn has been pushed and shoved and hit and fouled more than any player he can remember in ALL the time the team has been in the league. I am not saying voters agree with that!! I think smart voters see how often Brooklyn faces 2 or more defenders. i do think these are very relevant facts when you look at TOs


I do think the Jacks girls have earned more recognition than they have gotten in the last 4 years (probably longer), but they are focused on team results. the individual awards are a fun and interesting discussion))!! but not overly important. beyond all that, it seems clear we will not reach 100% agreement and that is rare anyway!! it is rare and totally acceptable. so... you see it as a tie and Avery deserves to win. i see it as very close but with a small edge to Brooklyn and absolutely believe by the eye test that Brooklyn is the better player. she was the better overall player in the two head to head games. we disagree. i can live with that

I think we have probably exhausted this conversation. that is NOT me saying you cannot respond. i hope that is obvious!!! but i will not continue further. i have already stated that the individual awards are not really important in the big picture

If I was tasked with making a sound judgement I would go back and watch a bunch of Koenin games. She was beast mode in Vermillion and Brookings and then disappeared in Fargo. You could look for a lot of intangible things that wouldn't show on the stats.

[98Jackfarmer]

I want to offer something very important to this and highly intellectual. Jory Collins appears to be/or is an arse. She plays for him, enough said. Brooklyn wins! LMAO!

[98Jackfarmer]

Good discussion guys, it's over, let Brooklyn and Avery sort it out this weekend on the court!

[LetsGoRabbits]

I want to offer something very important to this and highly intellectual. Jory Collins appears to be/or is an arse. She plays for him, enough said. Brooklyn wins! LMAO!

THIS is a very very important point Farmer!!!

unfortunately I think a LOT of the voters too often forget about the Coach is an ARSE statistic in these matters!!! we know for sure that SL voters forget about this cuz otherwise nobody from ORU could have ever won any awards when the MBB had that one little arse of a coach. i already forgot his name but ya know who I mean!

[Slowhand]

Quick question: How many of you smoke crack?
Im only asking cause....damn.

[98Jackfarmer]

Quick question: How many of you smoke crack?
Im only asking cause....damn.

Banter is banter. But please enlighten us how your golden girl was POY? She got worked over today by the real POY.