Renovated Frost

[Hammersmith]

Re: Renovated Frost

I would think it would include some, if not all of #9-#12 on the 2025 master plan.
http://www.gojacks.com/downloads2/39...2208&DB_LANG=C

For your budget, you could probably do 9-11 or 10-12; not sure you could do all four.


(so others don't have to click on the pdf)
9: Administration/Support building (Marshall)
10: Frost
11: Wrestling practice addition
12: Basketball practice, Wrest/VB competition addition


If #12 was just practice courts for BB, I think it could be lumped in with the other three. Basically just an open box. But your master plan shows a rather large addition and the competition aspect for VB & Wrest would probably be too much. But I'm no expert; just going off of our very similar project.

[Nidaros]

Re: Renovated Frost

I strongly suspect that a practice facility addition is part of the $30-40 million that your AD supposedly said. Our BSA renovation is right about $40M and that involved gutting and rebuilding the entire building plus four additions(lobby, weight room, club room, practice courts). I also think our BSA does some stuff that's in other buildings for you or has been moved over to your SJAC. And I think our construction costs are higher than yours right now. I can't imagine how you'd get to the $30-40M figure without an addition or a major rebuild of far more than the arena and basketball locker rooms/offices.

As for renovating versus building new: Our AD said we saved $12M in steel and concrete alone by reusing the BSA structure rather than knocking it down and starting from scratch. Stinks a bit because it forces some compromises(camera angles, scoreboard height, sightlines, capacity, messed up concourse), but it is what it is.

In my mind the BSA is not an old structure. Seems like it went up about 1970 just a few years ahead of Frost. No doubt SDSU got some ideas from BSA construction and design, but savings on steel and concrete are things that I have not thought about.
The Whopple, North Dakota native and voice of the Jacks for many years Norm Hilson used to complain about the press box being too far away, and I suspect he and other announcers had sightline problems. I think this caught the eye and ear of someone at NDSU and they move the play by play guys down on the floor. Going first is not always good in construction facilities because some of your neighbors are going find design errors.
So maybe renovation and being on schedule is the right path for SDSU.

[jackdaniel]

Re: Renovated Frost

I strongly suspect that a practice facility addition is part of the $30-40 million that your AD supposedly said. Our BSA renovation is right about $40M and that involved gutting and rebuilding the entire building plus four additions(lobby, weight room, club room, practice courts). I also think our BSA does some stuff that's in other buildings for you or has been moved over to your SJAC. And I think our construction costs are higher than yours right now. I can't imagine how you'd get to the $30-40M figure without an addition or a major rebuild of far more than the arena and basketball locker rooms/offices.

As for renovating versus building new: Our AD said we saved $12M in steel and concrete alone by reusing the BSA structure rather than knocking it down and starting from scratch. Stinks a bit because it forces some compromises(camera angles, scoreboard height, sightlines, capacity, messed up concourse), but it is what it is.

Thanks Hammersmith, I secretively thought we should get more for 40 million than just a renovation, but didn't want to say anything, because I wasn't that sure, you brought it up for me.

[UWMandSDSU]

Re: Renovated Frost

I strongly suspect that a practice facility addition is part of the $30-40 million that your AD supposedly said. Our BSA renovation is right about $40M and that involved gutting and rebuilding the entire building plus four additions(lobby, weight room, club room, practice courts). I also think our BSA does some stuff that's in other buildings for you or has been moved over to your SJAC. And I think our construction costs are higher than yours right now. I can't imagine how you'd get to the $30-40M figure without an addition or a major rebuild of far more than the arena and basketball locker rooms/offices.

As for renovating versus building new: Our AD said we saved $12M in steel and concrete alone by reusing the BSA structure rather than knocking it down and starting from scratch. Stinks a bit because it forces some compromises(camera angles, scoreboard height, sightlines, capacity, messed up concourse), but it is what it is.

I would think it would include some, if not all of #9-#12 on the 2025 master plan.
http://www.gojacks.com/downloads2/39...2208&DB_LANG=C

[Hammersmith]

Re: Renovated Frost

This is a great step for the department to be able to now convert this to a dedicated basketball "game day" arena. I would love to see the practice facility added at the same time to allow even more effort to be put into best possible seating solution (ie site lines, etc) for the main court and it seems to me that removing the practice courts from Frost is the best way to do that.

I strongly suspect that a practice facility addition is part of the $30-40 million that your AD supposedly said. Our BSA renovation is right about $40M and that involved gutting and rebuilding the entire building plus four additions(lobby, weight room, club room, practice courts). I also think our BSA does some stuff that's in other buildings for you or has been moved over to your SJAC. And I think our construction costs are higher than yours right now. I can't imagine how you'd get to the $30-40M figure without an addition or a major rebuild of far more than the arena and basketball locker rooms/offices.

As for renovating versus building new: Our AD said we saved $12M in steel and concrete alone by reusing the BSA structure rather than knocking it down and starting from scratch. Stinks a bit because it forces some compromises(camera angles, scoreboard height, sightlines, capacity, messed up concourse), but it is what it is.

[JackrabbitGuy]

Re: Renovated Frost

At a major destination event the importance of sightlines is overblown but a regular season Jackrabbit basketball game is not of that magnitude. So anything the department can do to improve the game experience will help draw more fans. Now how many is unknown. A few hundred in average attendance or over time will it add a thousand or more to average attendance? Who knows.

[Nidaros]

Re: Renovated Frost

For me , sight lines are the least important reason to do something with the bleachers. Every time I sit over there I am amazed that people don't get seriously injured trying to get up in the bleachers with no walkways or hand rails. I have seen people try to literally slide up row by row and getting back down is just as much of an adventure. With the emphasis to make older bleachers safer , I can't believe that they haven't been required to do something to make those things less of a hazard.

I can agree with the bleacher seating being a pain, and it is that lucky me has got so damn many priority points that I get to sit in the sixth row from the court. How did I get those points? Donation, donation, and I am going smug on this post. I am getting the picture and we do have problems with seating and sight lines. I have on occasion let some one else use my tickets and I bought a reserved seat in our nose bleed seats and I have not had much problem seeing the game, however have relied on the Dak Boards for close ups. So yeah let the renovations begin. Hopefully we end up with better recruits and more attendance. Btw as I mentioned in another post we averaged about per game in attendance, 2990. In 2004-05 average home attendence was 1617. So we are going in the right direction, despite our problems.

[bigticket1]

Re: Renovated Frost

For me , sight lines are the least important reason to do something with the bleachers. Every time I sit over there I am amazed that people don't get seriously injured trying to get up in the bleachers with no walkways or hand rails. I have seen people try to literally slide up row by row and getting back down is just as much of an adventure. With the emphasis to make older bleachers safer , I can't believe that they haven't been required to do something to make those things less of a hazard.

[SF_Rabbit_Fan]

Re: Renovated Frost

Did those with the nose bleed seats at the final four have good sight lines? This sightline stuff is overblown,

Its not overblown. You literally can't see below the free throw line, and end up watching the action on the screen. They aren't bad sightlines on the ends, they are obstructed view seats. As in, your view of the court is obstructed.

[jacks1]

Re: Renovated Frost

Did those with the nose bleed seats at the final four have good sight lines? This sightline stuff is overblown,

Absolutely nothing about this statement makes one lick of sense in relation to the Frost renovation project.

[Nidaros]

Re: Renovated Frost

At the same time, Nidaros, improved facilities also means we can get better recruits to come in, which improves the product and attendance. Recruits look at facilities as one of the factors when it comes to making their choice.

Not to mention the sale of luxury boxes will also inject some $$$ into the athletic budget.

And with improving sight lines and the overall fan experience, I think it's a good thing. And if Sell has the funding in place, it's better to do it now, than take a "wait and see" attitude when construction material and labor costs inevitably increase.

Did those with the nose bleed seats at the final four have good sight lines? This sightline stuff is overblown,

[jackrabit1]

Re: Renovated Frost

At the same time, Nidaros, improved facilities also means we can get better recruits to come in, which improves the product and attendance. Recruits look at facilities as one of the factors when it comes to making their choice.

Not to mention the sale of luxury boxes will also inject some $$$ into the athletic budget.

And with improving sight lines and the overall fan experience, I think it's a good thing. And if Sell has the funding in place, it's better to do it now, than take a "wait and see" attitude when construction material and labor costs inevitably increase.

[Nidaros]

Re: Renovated Frost

I disagree with the not needing a better facility part of your statement. I think that if the current bleachers are changed to chairback seats , that the number of empty seats would decrease greatly. I'm sure there are a number of fans who don't want to/can't deal with the bleachers and the difficulty in accessing them.

With our average attendance being 2993 for 13 games, and I am using men stats here, we are a long ways from 6000 and that is what I am driving at. The high game for all 13 game was USD at 5354, and NDSU we managed to seat 4912. These numbers do not spell a new and improved facility in my opinion. Sure sight lines and better seating will pick up some on the average, but I don't think we will average for the season in the 5000's for a long, long, time. We have to have a better product such as more George Marshalls and Cody Larson's to really pick up on attendance. Its going to take time to cure this problem, more time than I have on this earth. But what do I know? I do know I am damn near 75 and don't expect to see a new and improved Frost Area any time soon. A Renovated Forst? Yes and it seems to be in the plans, thanks to Jack4days conversation with AD Sells.

[Southeast]

Re: Renovated Frost

And the loss of wooden bleachers will really make the place feel like a "real" arena. I hope it happens as quickly as reported.

[jack power]

Re: Renovated Frost

I disagree with the not needing a better facility part of your statement. I think that if the current bleachers are changed to chairback seats , that the number of empty seats would decrease greatly. I'm sure there are a number of fans who don't want to/can't deal with the bleachers and the difficulty in accessing them.

Yep. Better seating and site lines will increase attendance.