Coaching Staff Thoughts

[UWMandSDSU]

I too disagree if your argument is that the Jacks WR corps hasn't realized sustained success and progression since Davis left that would allow him to cite it as evidence of coaching acumen, provided his players and recruits continue to sustain that group's progressOC.

Never was said that.

Davis had 6 of his SDSU WRs reach top 10 in career receptions while he was there.
‘Schleusner is moving on with Eck. It is not like Schleusner is getting hired from another FCS school by himself.

[jakejc795]

Sorry disagree. Moving back to SDSU for your old position is not a resume builder. We are not talking about moving back to a coordinator position. And Eidsness moved back from SMSU where had a record of 26-40 (I may be missing a season). Eidsness also left when SDSU was Div II and returned to FCS.

I too disagree if your argument is that the Jacks WR corps hasn't realized sustained success and progression since Davis left that would allow him to cite it as evidence of coaching acumen, provided his players and recruits continue to sustain that group's progress

I also struggle with the implication that remaining as Northwestern College's OC or only accepting an FCS coord. role is more of a "resume builder" than returning as Jacks' WR coach/passing game coord. when the prospective coach's predeccessor has reportedly been able to leverage that role to become another FCS school's OC.

[UWMandSDSU]

Moving from Northwestern College to SDSU is a move up, particularly when you look at how WR cohorts have evolved since Davis' first stint here.

Eidsness returned as OC after previous OC tenure, and few would argue that his choice stifled his advancement.

Sorry disagree. Moving back to SDSU for your old position is not a resume builder. We are not talking about moving back to a coordinator position. And Eidsness moved back from SMSU where had a record of 26-40 (I may be missing a season). Eidsness also left when SDSU was Div II and returned to FCS.

[jakejc795]

Coaches are looking to move up, not return to a familiar school only to have the same position they had 5 years prior.

Moving from Northwestern College to SDSU is a move up, particularly when you look at how WR cohorts have evolved since Davis' first stint here.

Eidsness returned as OC after previous OC tenure, and few would argue that his choice stifled his advancement.

[UWMandSDSU]

Suppose it depends on what he's earning at Northwestern College, but it seems likely to be less than the $72k Schleusner was being paid, and nothing against, Orange City, but I'd much prefer living in Brookings.

Coaches are looking to move up, not return to a familiar school only to have the same position they had 5 years prior.

[jakejc795]

Why would Josh Davis not be considered for OC? And why would he come back to the same position as he left w/out being the OC?

Suppose it depends on what he's earning at Northwestern College, but it seems likely to be less than the $72k Schleusner was being paid, and nothing against, Orange City, but I'd much prefer living in Brookings.

[UWMandSDSU]

Why would Josh Davis not be considered for OC? And why would he come back to the same position as he left w/out being the OC?

[LetsGoRabbits]

[QUOTE=jakejc795;n520654]

I wonder if part of this is a combination of prospective employees questioning whether Bison assistants' success is due to their own ability or to the Bison "system" and reputation and assistants not necessarily being in a rush to leave a team likely to contend for the national championship every season.

In the Jacks case, I think assistants can point to marked system/scheme adaptation; for instance, the Jacks' offense transitioned from Sumner to Lujan to Christion to Gibbs to Gronowski with varying levels of TE and RB involvement and sustained OL ascendance, and on defense from blue chip DBs (e.g., Butler and Brown) with LBs being a strength for over a decade to the DL and defense overall being among the conference's, if not the nation's, best.

Regarding Keeler there was talk of him being less than keen on the move to FBS and being mentioned as a contender for Delaware HC gig, but trustees purportedly blocked that. The fact that Carty, a Keeler assistant's hiring was approved by the same group at UD suggests we may not want to exclude subordinates of coaches we're not the biggest fans of[/QUOTE]

YEP totally agree. as i said i know that sometime or OFTEN??? i do make strong opinionated statements, but i do truly believe what i said that black and white rules are not possible!! EVERY person deserves to be measured on their own merit. you cannot just say i will never hire a former assistant to this coach or that one

but that said, i would ask specific questions of a former assistant of one of those coaches so that i could truly assess their ability to fit in

ALSO, i think you make several GREAT points about ndsu and sdsu assistants leaving and staying. i would also add that ndsu has had two head coaches move up while we have had Stig for a very long time. when there is a chance that top guy moves up then everybody else has a chance to move up the ladder. with the guy at the top probably never leaving until retirement our assistants have probably had more of a need to move on in order to move up. obviously that ground has been covered a lot and i do not have a lot of interest in doing more of it, but without question there are both good and bad to every circumstance. it is great to have stability in a head coach!!! but we have definitely had some promising assistants move on.

maybe some or one will come back. who knows? i do not think any of our former assistants who have moved on are overly good options to come back to the current positions. i could see Josh davis as a candidate for one of the positions but i really doubt he would be considered for OC. maybe WR coach and maybe pass game cooridinator

[UWMandSDSU]

Guessing that NDSU likely pays their assistants more ?

Dan Larson-NDSU OL coach made $75,000.

[bigticket1]

I wonder if part of this is a combination of prospective employers questioning whether Bison assistants' success is due to their own ability or to the Bison "system" and reputation and assistants not necessarily being in a rush to leave a team likely to contend for the national championship every season.

In the Jacks case, I think assistants can point to marked system/scheme adaptation; for instance, the Jacks' offense transitioned from Sumner to Lujan to Christion to Gibbs to Gronowski with varying levels of TE and RB involvement and sustained OL ascendance, and on defense from blue chip DBs (e.g., Butler and Brown) with LBs being a strength for over a decade to the DL and defense overall being among the conference's, if not the nation's, best.

Regarding Keeler there was talk of him being less than keen on the move to FBS and being mentioned as a contender for Delaware HC gig, but trustees purportedly blocked that. The fact that Carty, a Keeler assistant's hiring was approved by the same group at UD suggests we may not want to exclude subordinates of coaches we're not the biggest fans of

Guessing that NDSU likely pays their assistants more ?

[jakejc795]

hahah nice switcheroo on the word offensive))!!!

also like your thought on the keeler and houston assistants appreciating the difference!!

i have not seen cignetti as much but i definitely get a better, "less criminal, less total lack of integrity" feeling from him than i get from houston and keeler

farley- i am not aware of any reason that i would be opposed to one of his assistants. i know there is a lot of question about his overall coaching ability, but i think we could argue their defense was as good or better than ANY defense in fcs this year. they have definitely become a nightmare for us. they as much as any team scare me, as the team that just seems to keep us OFF OUR GAME.

so if we were looking for defensive coaches, i actually think that would be one of the first places i would look and obviously Stig has a LOT of respect for him, so i think it is VERY reasonable to think it might be a place that we would look to hire from. also the AD Sell connections to UNI

petrino- whole other deal. i think it is probably safe to assume that not ALL of his assistants have the same OFF the field issues that he has dealt with, but one could surely guess that he hires assistants from a STRICTLY fb perspective and does not put much weight on their personal values. meaning that i know for a fact that sdsu coaches tell perspective players that they want AND expect them to grow as people and students and players. it is NOT all about the games!! i think maybe petrino does not necessarily make that a priority in hiring. hence yes i probably agree with you that his assistants might not be the best fit for the culture sdsu has

that all said, nobody is perfect and you can find very flawed people in the best places and wonderful people in the worst places!!!!! i totally realize that i make some STRONG statements about some things here.. ex. usd, keeler, houston, etc....... but truthfully you cannot make black and white rules. you cannot judge anyone by ONE thing or judge the book by the cover. every situation and person has to be valued on their own merit. and everything is a case by case situation

as far as entz goes he does appear to be a bit of a hot head. i DEFINITELY like the former coach more. i had a ton of respect for Klieman!! but to the question, i would DEFINITELY steal coaches from ndsu if we thought they would be a good fit here. as far as i know i am surprised they do not lose more assistants. i feel like we lose more assistants than they do over the years

I wonder if part of this is a combination of prospective employers questioning whether Bison assistants' success is due to their own ability or to the Bison "system" and reputation and assistants not necessarily being in a rush to leave a team likely to contend for the national championship every season.

In the Jacks case, I think assistants can point to marked system/scheme adaptation; for instance, the Jacks' offense transitioned from Sumner to Lujan to Christion to Gibbs to Gronowski with varying levels of TE and RB involvement and sustained OL ascendance, and on defense from blue chip DBs (e.g., Butler and Brown) with LBs being a strength for over a decade to the DL and defense overall being among the conference's, if not the nation's, best.

Regarding Keeler there was talk of him being less than keen on the move to FBS and being mentioned as a contender for Delaware HC gig, but trustees purportedly blocked that. The fact that Carty, a Keeler assistant's hiring was approved by the same group at UD suggests we may not want to exclude subordinates of coaches we're not the biggest fans of

[LetsGoRabbits]

Wait -- is there any school more "big time 'offensive'" than NDSU?

I'm less concerned with the focus on WI than others, and another perspective regarding Keeler and Houston assistants is that they may appreciate working in a regime headed by a coach who is the polar opposite.

Would you also be leery of hiring coaches who were Cignetti, Farley, or Petrino assistants (I'm assuming the Bison respect you mentioned wouldn't cause you to shy away from considering an Entz acolyte)?

hahah nice switcheroo on the word offensive))!!!

also like your thought on the keeler and houston assistants appreciating the difference!!

i have not seen cignetti as much but i definitely get a better, "less criminal, less total lack of integrity" feeling from him than i get from houston and keeler

farley- i am not aware of any reason that i would be opposed to one of his assistants. i know there is a lot of question about his overall coaching ability, but i think we could argue their defense was as good or better than ANY defense in fcs this year. they have definitely become a nightmare for us. they as much as any team scare me, as the team that just seems to keep us OFF OUR GAME.

so if we were looking for defensive coaches, i actually think that would be one of the first places i would look and obviously Stig has a LOT of respect for him, so i think it is VERY reasonable to think it might be a place that we would look to hire from. also the AD Sell connections to UNI

petrino- whole other deal. i think it is probably safe to assume that not ALL of his assistants have the same OFF the field issues that he has dealt with, but one could surely guess that he hires assistants from a STRICTLY fb perspective and does not put much weight on their personal values. meaning that i know for a fact that sdsu coaches tell perspective players that they want AND expect them to grow as people and students and players. it is NOT all about the games!! i think maybe petrino does not necessarily make that a priority in hiring. hence yes i probably agree with you that his assistants might not be the best fit for the culture sdsu has

that all said, nobody is perfect and you can find very flawed people in the best places and wonderful people in the worst places!!!!! i totally realize that i make some STRONG statements about some things here.. ex. usd, keeler, houston, etc....... but truthfully you cannot make black and white rules. you cannot judge anyone by ONE thing or judge the book by the cover. every situation and person has to be valued on their own merit. and everything is a case by case situation

as far as entz goes he does appear to be a bit of a hot head. i DEFINITELY like the former coach more. i had a ton of respect for Klieman!! but to the question, i would DEFINITELY steal coaches from ndsu if we thought they would be a good fit here. as far as i know i am surprised they do not lose more assistants. i feel like we lose more assistants than they do over the years

[jakejc795]

what about some of the big time offensive schools?? maybe the OC from east washington wants to work at a school where they also play defense and he has a legit chance to win a title? i think HC Hill is kind of the "actual" OC at SIU but what about thier OC? who are the other schools known for consistent offensive excellence? but i would not want to hire anyone who has EVER worked with KC keeler or mike houston

as far as being familiar with wisconsin or any area. there are good and bad to that situation, like every situation. i definitely think it is important to stay strong in the areas where we are strong and i think that needs to be a very high priority recruiting wise. but you cannot say it is not valuable to get coaches who possibly open doors in new areas. you have to balance that because you cannot be strong EVERYWHERE and if you try, you end up being strong nowhere

Wait -- is there any school more "big time 'offensive'" than NDSU?

I'm less concerned with the focus on WI than others, and another perspective regarding Keeler and Houston assistants is that they may appreciate working in a regime headed by a coach who is the polar opposite.

Would you also be leery of hiring coaches who were Cignetti, Farley, or Petrino assistants (I'm assuming the Bison respect you mentioned wouldn't cause you to shy away from considering an Entz acolyte)?

[LetsGoRabbits]

what about some of the big time offensive schools?? maybe the OC from east washington wants to work at a school where they also play defense and he has a legit chance to win a title? i think HC Hill is kind of the "actual" OC at SIU but what about thier OC? who are the other schools known for consistent offensive excellence? but i would not want to hire anyone who has EVER worked with KC keeler or mike houston

as far as being familiar with wisconsin or any area. there are good and bad to that situation, like every situation. i definitely think it is important to stay strong in the areas where we are strong and i think that needs to be a very high priority recruiting wise. but you cannot say it is not valuable to get coaches who possibly open doors in new areas. you have to balance that because you cannot be strong EVERYWHERE and if you try, you end up being strong nowhere

[jakejc795]

haha YES jake, i think we are all aware that you have a little bit of a dislike for ndsu. you and i do differ on this. i absolutely HATE losing to them. i think they have some fans who are difficult to see or hear, i guess every school does of course. but beyond that i have a ton of respect for the school the athletic program and the fb program. everything about the place is FAR more respectable than usd, und, or augie. if i had players or students who were interested in a career in music i pointed them toward augie, other than that i cannot think of ONE reason i would EVER recommend that ANYONE EVER attend any of those schools or cheer for their teams

as far as the holding thing goes. please go back and watch their semi game against jmu. i think this will make any holding that ndsu has done over the years seem mild. the left OFFENSIVE tackle for jmu was the leading tackler in that game by far. it really made me feel a lot better about many of the occasions i have felt that the rabbits got the short end from the officials

but yes i do agree with you i do think they hold. i have also thought over the years that they coach their DBs to hold as much as possible, up to the limit of what the refs will allow. i used to feel that they could have been flagged on easily 60 plus % of passing plays for holding. ironic that i think the play at end of jmu game with the interception was NOT a penalty. absolutely text book training video pass coverage

If I had to choose a ND Valley coach for OL, I'd opt for Pawlak over Larson. First, I think Pawlak did "more with less" at UND, and their offense is similar to Jacks in terms of QB (when Schuster & Gronowski were starters) and RB play (when they used Weah and Jacks theoretically making Davis RB1 next season)