2017 regular season attendance

[WahpJack]

Re: 2017 regular season attendance

You also have to consider the size of the population in the immediate area. To juxtapose with Fargo, they have about 120,000 people that live there to fill a 19,000 seat stadium. Brookings has just under 24,000 to fill a 19,400 seat stadium. Percentage wise, 15.8% of Fargo can fill the stadium while it would take nearly 81% of Brookings to be at the game to fill it. That's about 6.5x required turnout to fill the stadium. The fact that the average attendance equates to over 50% of the population is pretty incredible.

Like any good statistical analysis, you can massage the numbers to support whatever argument you are trying to make. We don't have the history of success that NDSU has. Also, it's a cold part of the country and we elected to have the games outside. I love that but a lot of people are turned off by that (can you blame them)?

The administration is committing to making football a big draw and the ground work has been laid. The team has started doing it's part and they'll continue to have more success. With time, I wouldn't be surprised to see that average get up over 15,000 and eventually having regular sellouts. Montana and Montana State are good comparisons in that regard (even though their populations are 2.5x and 1.7x the size of Brookings, respectively).

I too wish we were seeing consistently larger crowds in our new stadium. But as others have said, it takes time (and winning). People forget that the Bison have only recently begun selling out football games. Since I live in ND and am completely outnumbered by Bison fans, (I work semi-regularly in our Fargo facility, which is across the street from the FargoDome ), I thought I'd do a deeper dive into NDSU vs SDSU football attendance.

I chose to look at a 5 year span for both schools during their stadium transition period. The last 3 years in the old stadium and the first 2 years in the new. What I found were strikingly similar numbers. Granted, it's not a perfect comparison - the stadiums opened 23 years apart (1993 vs 2016), NDSU was still D2 at the time (but were were coming off D2 playoff appearances in '90,'91 & '92), and Domed vs Open Air stadiums (where football is meant to be played, IMHO).

NDSU total attendance figures 1990 - 1994: 368,976; a 5 year avg of 73,795. That figure includes 5 home playoff games outside at Dacotah Field in late November - 33,511 total, 7102 avg.

SDSU total attendance figures 2013 - 2017: 386,287; a 5 year avg of 77,527. We have 1 home playoff game included in those figures, 12/3/16 Villanova - 6154. (Cold, miserable day - I was there).

NDSU didn't max out the Dome until year 2, the Nickel Trophy game vs UND (18,760). In our 2nd yr, we nearly had a full house vs NDSU on 11/4 (18,130). Pretty sure SDSU counts butts in seats, not tickets sold. I'm unsure how NDSU takes attendance.

Considering Fargo population>>Brookings, SDSU historically a basketball school, these are pretty even numbers. We have nothing to complain about and lots more to look forward to .

[jakejc795]

Re: 2017 regular season attendance

I agree that there is a line to be walked. To me it isn't even really about being priced out. It has more to do with the perception of getting nickel and dimed for everything. I have said that season ticket holders should receive GoJacks premium, for their season, at no charge so they can follow the teams they already support. Why aren't there more "giveaways" during the pre-game or game? It is amazing how someone that shells out a couple hundred dollars for tickets gets super excited about a 10 dollar shirt.

I'm wholeheartedly in favor of your suggested GoJacks promo. I could see why they might not want to give folks the entire sports suite for free, so maybe they could credit season ticket holders the equivalent number of games in one alternate sport of their choice, so football season ticket holders could watch 10-12 basketball games on gojacks, for instance. This could have an ancillary benefit of getting prospective ticket purchasers more familiar with the teams and more likely to buy tickets to see them live.

I'm guilty of getting excited about pre-game swag. My beef there is that the propensity seems to be that they're only distributing it on the west side, so my strategy is to stroll by the student entrance on the way to meet my parents on the east side and see if it looks like gate personnel are giving anything away. Then, if they are, we just go through the west side gates (or even head over there after entering the east side entrance.

[SDSUAlum08]

Re: 2017 regular season attendance

Just don't wristband. Have a UPD presence but don't search out for problems. Example: the AGR spot is near mine. It appears that both actives and alumni use that spot (at least they have in the past). They were there for 1 game this year. They were playing music, sitting/standing around and talking, with some playing beer darts. Nothing crazy. It looked like most students had wrist bands but UPD still went through their spot and asked people for IDs. There is no need for that. After that, the group didn't come back.

This is why I can’t stand UPD. They think it’s their job to seek out problems.

They physically went up into the suites at the football game and there were a few people drinking hard alcohol. They caused a scene and made them get rid of it. They’re out of control and I’ve heard of so many issues in the past that I don’t like tailgating anymore.

[Mr_Tibbs]

Re: 2017 regular season attendance

Hello... um, is this thing on?
Firstly, I want to state that I enjoy reading these boards and have done so for a long time. I've never felt the need to jump into a conversation as you all do an excellent job of arguing multiple points on both sides of the topics. However, this thread has piqued my interest.

On the subject of student attendance since changes in tailgating, isn't student attendance up since the hay days of tailgating mobs in the backyard? I think I remember UPD and Athletics twittering about student attendance increasing 20% a year or so ago? (someone more tech savvy could probably find it)

On the subject of the tailgating experience, most of the complaints have seemed to come from folks "up north." In the games I've been to, it's seemed that more and more tailgaters are pushing to the east, west, and south which would put less people overall in the north making it less "hopping." The atmosphere has still been a blast with plenty of folks willing to share drinks, food, and stories as well as yard games. Heck, I even ran into the Wieneke family (who are every bit as gracious and fun loving as Jake seems to be). The major differences seem to be that we have smaller rigs/setups than our cohorts up north and they're still pushed into one area for tailgating. As we continue to grow, it seems we, as fans, are evolving with it.

On the subject of student tailgating, there's always been a spot marked on the map for students to tailgate in. Wasn't it a couple of years ago that they had a spot next the the backyard? When they started the band march through tailgating? I remember there being bands and food but few students once the food ran out. Can't say I blame them. It was always fun meeting the older generations while socializing before games.

On the subject of wristbands, USeD was using them during their D-Days game - not sure if they've used them for other games. Hopefully some of you can update us on this this weekend! Might it be a Regents issue? Or is SDSU once again leading the way for our peer institutions in today's overly-sensitive law riddled environment?

I usually don't have a penny so I just hang around but on this issue I had a nickel so I threw my money down. I hope some of you older posters get the reference

To the student attendance being up, I believe that stat was for 2015, not 2016. The tailgating policies were changed preceding the 2016 season. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong on the date and/or UPD tweet. I'm not really sure if student attendance at games is vastly different than it was in 2014, 2012, etc. 20% on the season at an average of six games isn't a whole lot. Assuming you average 3000 students per game (and we don't), that's 18000 over the course of the season. A 20% increase from that total applied back to an in game average is an increase of about 600 students per game. Looking at the past couple of seasons, and the student attendance late in the year, 600 more students aren't piling in each game. The bulk of that increase is coming from the first two or three home games. I'm not sure how that relates to this overall discussion, but if the average is up, we are still ending up with games like last Saturday where 500 showed up. And avoiding that situation is part of the point to this whole thread.

To the point about being "up north", I tailgate in the Library lot. Most games (the last two haven't been as bad), UPD goes tailgate by tailgate to check IDs/wristbands/etc. They are pleasant to be around (usually), but it is a theme across the whole area.

USD using wristbands is a copy of what we started. And the admin down there received a ton of crap about it and backed off. Go read the Voplante articles about it and the twitter for their student fan club, and the response was more of a middle ground it seems after they implemented it the first time. I do know that we have the most heavy handed Board of Regents in the country it seems, and it would not shock me if a lot of this is coming down from them. That, I have no idea about.

[JackJD]

Re: 2017 regular season attendance

...If people chucking beer can during Hobo Day 2014 had been doing so away from families and vehicles, would anyone on here have noticed?...

Kudos to Mr. Tibbs for getting philosophical on us! Compare: "If a tree falls in a forest and no one is around to hear it, does it make a sound?" [From Wikipedia: the statement is a philosophical thought experiment that raises questions regarding observation and perception.]

[UWMandSDSU]

Re: 2017 regular season attendance

This is what I was about to post. We need to go around to different peer universities and look at their tailgating policies and how they run things and set things up. Go look how NDSU, Montana, etc. do things. Attend some of their tailgating events to get a first hand look. Most importantly, listen to you own fans. There are some things they are just not going or can allow, but see what the fans want/like.

The times I have been on road trips w/ individuals from Admin they do check out the facilities and game day operations, which includes tailgating, of the other schools.

[JacKsBack]

Re: 2017 regular season attendance

Hello... um, is this thing on?
Firstly, I want to state that I enjoy reading these boards and have done so for a long time. I've never felt the need to jump into a conversation as you all do an excellent job of arguing multiple points on both sides of the topics. However, this thread has piqued my interest.

On the subject of student attendance since changes in tailgating, isn't student attendance up since the hay days of tailgating mobs in the backyard? I think I remember UPD and Athletics twittering about student attendance increasing 20% a year or so ago? (someone more tech savvy could probably find it)

On the subject of the tailgating experience, most of the complaints have seemed to come from folks "up north." In the games I've been to, it's seemed that more and more tailgaters are pushing to the east, west, and south which would put less people overall in the north making it less "hopping." The atmosphere has still been a blast with plenty of folks willing to share drinks, food, and stories as well as yard games. Heck, I even ran into the Wieneke family (who are every bit as gracious and fun loving as Jake seems to be). The major differences seem to be that we have smaller rigs/setups than our cohorts up north and they're still pushed into one area for tailgating. As we continue to grow, it seems we, as fans, are evolving with it.

On the subject of student tailgating, there's always been a spot marked on the map for students to tailgate in. Wasn't it a couple of years ago that they had a spot next the the backyard? When they started the band march through tailgating? I remember there being bands and food but few students once the food ran out. Can't say I blame them. It was always fun meeting the older generations while socializing before games.

On the subject of wristbands, USeD was using them during their D-Days game - not sure if they've used them for other games. Hopefully some of you can update us on this this weekend! Might it be a Regents issue? Or is SDSU once again leading the way for our peer institutions in today's overly-sensitive law riddled environment?

I usually don't have a penny so I just hang around but on this issue I had a nickel so I threw my money down. I hope some of you older posters get the reference

[Nidaros]

Re: 2017 regular season attendance

I don't think anyone is advocating underage drinking. Obviously laws are laws. I think that what has many people in a tizzy is the way that the UPD enforces those rules. It has been my experience that many times the law enforcement at the games tries to justify their being at the game. I liken a tailgate police force to a sports offical...they should enforce the rules but not be noticed.

My comment about social drinking applies to all age groups.

[Evolution Prime]

Re: 2017 regular season attendance

Some in this thread, myself included, are advocating that SDSU look at what their peers are doing and find a way to make that work.

This is what I was about to post. We need to go around to different peer universities and look at their tailgating policies and how they run things and set things up. Go look how NDSU, Montana, etc. do things. Attend some of their tailgating events to get a first hand look. Most importantly, listen to you own fans. There are some things they are just not going or can allow, but see what the fans want/like.

[Mr_Tibbs]

Re: 2017 regular season attendance

It might also be found that the enforcement of alcohol rules for minors was a bad idea. See post #37 and #44. There could be more references. It is a tie in for the thread title of attendance. It is just a hard sell and liability issue to condone or allow under age drinking. It is like the old adage of being lots of fun until somebody gets an eye poked out and watch the court dockets grow with that situation. If the students are drinking on some other street, that is not SDSU's problem.

I understand the legality issue everyone is bringing up and the potential liability.

But I'd like to point out a few things.

1) Most institutions our size that have football are tailgaing. Those places have students tailgating, and I'm sure many are underage. They may not condone or encourage it, but they are not going through a vetting process or checking everyone's IDs. Those institutions are just as liable as SDSU, but they've figured out a way to make it work.

2) I refuse to beleive that our students are somehow uniquely drunker than others elsewhere. Many of these issues that have arisen in the past with students stem from where those issues occured, as opposed to the fact that the students were drunk and rowdy. If people chucking beer can during Hobo Day 2014 had been doing so away from families and vehicles, would anyone on here have noticed?

3) I've tailgated at 10 different universities, and talked about this type of issue to people at several more. Bottom line is, absolutely no one does what SDSU does when it comes to wrist banding, targeting students, etc. If there's a problem at tailgating, I'm sure those places take care of it. And again, they live under the same legal climate we do. I once asked someone in the athletic department if they had researched any other universities that were using this wristband/ID station system. He said they hadn't really researched who else did it (which is troubling in its own right), and they were not aware of any other regional D1 or D2 schools doing the same.

No one is advocating that we blatantly encourage underage drinking or stop cracking down on bad behavior. Some in this thread, myself included, are advocating that SDSU look at what their peers are doing and find a way to make that work.

[SoDakJack]

Re: 2017 regular season attendance

I have mixed feelings about the monetization you mention. First, I think charging a small fee can help decrease the possible "exploitation" of student athletes. I don't want to lose sight of the fact that the Millers, Daums, Goederts, and Wienekes on Jacks' teams should not become cogs in the SDSU Athletics machine -- not saying they are, but it's something to be cognizant of. Thus, a portion of the funds raised could possibly be allocated to fund further outreach, FCOA, etc., and I think such initiatives to broaden that fiscal base can serve to benefit program sustainability. However, I also do not want to price out families, recent graduates with student loan debt, etc. who are prospective season ticket holders.

I agree that there is a line to be walked. To me it isn't even really about being priced out. It has more to do with the perception of getting nickel and dimed for everything. I have said that season ticket holders should receive GoJacks premium, for their season, at no charge so they can follow the teams they already support. Why aren't there more "giveaways" during the pre-game or game? It is amazing how someone that shells out a couple hundred dollars for tickets gets super excited about a 10 dollar shirt.

I don’t have an answer, but with society glorifying social drinking it’s bigger than a game day experience. It is a huge problem but laws have to be enforced.

I don't think anyone is advocating underage drinking. Obviously laws are laws. I think that what has many people in a tizzy is the way that the UPD enforces those rules. It has been my experience that many times the law enforcement at the games tries to justify their being at the game. I liken a tailgate police force to a sports offical...they should enforce the rules but not be noticed.

[Nidaros]

Re: 2017 regular season attendance

Monetization, that’s a term I am not familiar with, though I did a google and it is self-explanatory. Drinking on Saturday by students? It’s been going on long before any administrator even dreamed of moving to D1. Back in the last century, at one of Augie-SDSU basketball games I sat by a very senior gentleman, who told me he was an SDSU alum who played football and lettered sometime in 1930’s. He also told me he ran a bootleging business which helped him pay his way through college. So now we still have the same problem manifested in a different form. How do we deal with this problem? I don’t have an answer, but with society glorifying social drinking it’s bigger than a game day experience. It is a huge problem but laws have to be enforced.

[jakejc795]

Re: 2017 regular season attendance

Why even charge the fans? I realize that they want to monetize as much as they can, but at some point you just have to do something for the pure entertainment of the fans. Have meet and greets with the other sports in the SJAC, maybe some food choices for those fans that come to the game but do not have a spot to tailgate, perhaps some type of live pregame (radio or TV) that would give it that ESPN Gameday vibe (on a very, very small scale). My many years in the business tells me that a live broadcast of any type is a big production, so that may be just a pipe dream. I just feel the pre-game experience has stalled just a little bit.

The in-game experience has vastly improved. But, as always, there is room for improvement. For me, college football saturday is about more that W-L. If you can make the entire game day an event, you might just win over a few hundred that normally would stay home and watch Nebraska get blown out (I just had to work some type of Husker dig in).

I have mixed feelings about the monetization you mention. First, I think charging a small fee can help decrease the possible "exploitation" of student athletes. I don't want to lose sight of the fact that the Millers, Daums, Goederts, and Wienekes on Jacks' teams should not become cogs in the SDSU Athletics machine -- not saying they are, but it's something to be cognizant of. Thus, a portion of the funds raised could possibly be allocated to fund further outreach, FCOA, etc., and I think such initiatives to broaden that fiscal base can serve to benefit program sustainability. However, I also do not want to price out families, recent graduates with student loan debt, etc. who are prospective season ticket holders.

[OldHare]

Re: 2017 regular season attendance

I guess with my addition I was going off a couple previous posts that had brought up "providing alcohol" for students, I was mostly pointing out that was a bad idea. I may have misread, but felt it was a good point to make

It might also be found that the enforcement of alcohol rules for minors was a bad idea. See post #37 and #44. There could be more references. It is a tie in for the thread title of attendance. It is just a hard sell and liability issue to condone or allow under age drinking. It is like the old adage of being lots of fun until somebody gets an eye poked out and watch the court dockets grow with that situation. If the students are drinking on some other street, that is not SDSU's problem.

[jacksfan2011]

Re: 2017 regular season attendance

Who is advocating allowing underage drinking? I have seen it referenced on here a couple times but I don't recall reading it. I don't think anyone with a shred of common sense would suggest we allow minors to drink. I also haven't seen a reference to giving students unlimited alcohol. Are these just ideas that were a "slippery slope" argument?

I guess with my addition I was going off a couple previous posts that had brought up "providing alcohol" for students, I was mostly pointing out that was a bad idea. I may have misread, but felt it was a good point to make