Playoffs

[TransAmBison]

Re: Playoffs

Anybody have an idea what it costs the athletic department to run a game day at CAS? How much would they need to make to break even?

With 4000 playoff tickets sold at $20/ticket, that would equate to 80,000 in gate revenue. If the NCAA minimum guarantee is $30,000 for the first round, that would give us $50,000 or so to break even after expenses. Is that feasible? I can't recall how much tickets were for last year's game? I also realize that of the 4300 in attendance last year, some would have been comped attendance for the band, parents, etc.

You don't get to keep everything above and beyond the bid. The bid is in place in case you don't make that much. The NCAA gets a certain percentage of your gate, or the bid, whichever is bigger. So think of the bid as the minimum you will pay...

[jackrabbit1979]

Re: Playoffs

Anybody have an idea what it costs the athletic department to run a game day at CAS? How much would they need to make to break even?

With 4000 playoff tickets sold at $20/ticket, that would equate to 80,000 in gate revenue. If the NCAA minimum guarantee is $30,000 for the first round, that would give us $50,000 or so to break even after expenses. Is that feasible? I can't recall how much tickets were for last year's game? I also realize that of the 4300 in attendance last year, some would have been comped attendance for the band, parents, etc.

[TK22867]

Re: Playoffs

No doubt this attendance was poor last year but I would expect a large improvement the next time the Jacks host a playoff game. The whole playoff concept was more new to SDSU fans then and as I remember the possibility of hosting was not much talked about. That and the holiday weekend mixed in to create a small crowd. Next time it will be different.

I would expect an improvement as well, but not a large one. If we play in the opening round of the playoffs and it is on the holiday weekend, we will always struggle with attendance. Some folks have the choice of traveling to be with family for Thanksgiving holiday or stay home and watch the Jackrabbits. I have no qualms with folks choosing the former if a choice has to be made. It's just the nature of the beast.

Kemo had it right......crowd size matters for $, but it had little impact on the atmosphere. Plus, if I recall correctly, there was a major donor that stepped up to essentially guarantee we would host a home playoff game. Must not have been the case this year.

[JackrabbitGuy]

Re: Playoffs

The lesson here should be to show up the next time the Jacks host a playoff game.

No doubt this attendance was poor last year but I would expect a large improvement the next time the Jacks host a playoff game. The whole playoff concept was more new to SDSU fans then and as I remember the possibility of hosting was not much talked about. That and the holiday weekend mixed in to create a small crowd. Next time it will be different.

[Kemo]

Re: Playoffs

We have a BINGO! The attendance last year at the playoff game was emberassing IMHO. NAU was probably able to put in a better bid due to better climate and therefore no issues with fans showing up.

I'm with those that said that beating SDSU at CAS in late November/December would be extremely tough. I'm sure that the Athletic Dept. bid every cent they could to get the game here but it wasn't enough. Unless someone is stroking a large check it wouldn't make sense for them to bid more than what they know they would take in for a playoff game.

SUPERBUNNY

Honestly, as disappointing as the numbers were for our home playoff game last year there was nothing disappointing about those who showed up. Everyone there really embraced the playoffs and the weather, making the atmosphere better than a lot of games we've had when 12,000 show up.

That said, I think the administration probably put in the appropriate bid for the a Thanksgiving weekend game and wouldn't be surprised if some of our later bids weren't significantly higher in case we make it that far and there is an upset in our bracket.

[SUPERBUNNY]

Re: Playoffs

The lesson here should be to show up the next time the Jacks host a playoff game.

We have a BINGO! The attendance last year at the playoff game was emberassing IMHO. NAU was probably able to put in a better bid due to better climate and therefore no issues with fans showing up.

I'm with those that said that beating SDSU at CAS in late November/December would be extremely tough. I'm sure that the Athletic Dept. bid every cent they could to get the game here but it wasn't enough. Unless someone is stroking a large check it wouldn't make sense for them to bid more than what they know they would take in for a playoff game.

SUPERBUNNY

[rabidrabbit]

Re: Playoffs

Is a 7-4 new hampshire team better than a 7-5 UNI, 7-5 Montana St or 8-4 Youngstown? I sure dont think so. New Hampshire doesnt get in if they dont beat Maine. UNI beat Iowa St and drilled McNeese St in non conference. Im notcsure how a team that loses 41-6 to a non playoff team and loses 41-7 to their conf champ gets one of the 8 seeds. Thats McNeese St

Yes - UNH is tied for 2nd in CAA, with Towson. They also beat the CAA AQ, Maine in their last game. McNeese gets a seed for a 9-3 record that included a major shellacking of FBS So. FLA. 6 of the 8 seeded teams had FBS wins as part of their winning resumes. Every one of the 3 better than's listed had miserable situations. Only UNI had a FBS win. UNI had multiple OT chances. Remember SDSU didn't win the UNI game as much as UNI lost it when they missed a chip shot FG at the end of regulation. Jacks are a very good team, UNI did themselves in 5x in MoValley action. If there is any team that has a right to complain about being left out, it's SoCon co-champ UT Chatty. If Samford hadn't hit a last second FG from 40 yds to win over a last place and Indiana St bad Elon team, Chatty would be the AQ rather than 7-5 Furman.

There will be a Woff'ed team or teams each year. This year just happens to have some head-scratchers as to why selected. 4 years ago, a 4-4 MoValley team, tied with 5 other MoValley teams was a last selected team (and 3rd MVFC) into the play-offs. That team made it to the final 4, and was beat, IIRC, in OT on a controversial call losing to the eventual National Champion. So even from a lowly seed and position, there are chance to advance.

[mitchellrabbit]

Re: Playoffs

Is a 7-4 new hampshire team better than a 7-5 UNI, 7-5 Montana St or 8-4 Youngstown? I sure dont think so. New Hampshire doesnt get in if they dont beat Maine. UNI beat Iowa St and drilled McNeese St in non conference. Im notcsure how a team that loses 41-6 to a non playoff team and loses 41-7 to their conf champ gets one of the 8 seeds. Thats McNeese St

[TransAmBison]

Re: Playoffs

Congrats on the playoffs...but sorry you didn't get a home game to start. I am very happy to see you guys on the other side of the bracket. Now go make some noise and tear them all up! I expect your defense will look pretty good against some of those soft teams. If your passing game can compliment Zenner a little, I have a feeling you guys could go far.

Anyway, good luck guys...I'll be cheering for you throughout your battle on your side of the bracket.

btw, I believe I did call it you would roll Youngstown. (Just showing my faith in you isn't without justification)

[rabidrabbit]

Re: Playoffs

The current traveling scenario is better for the Jacks than a home game, followed immediately by a trip to Fargo. If SDSU would have landed a home date, this likely would have placed us in that situation right?

Jackmd is right, we simply have to win more games. With the sustained success that NDSU has had it would best if we can continue to build our program to be in the mix of the top 4 spots. Then bid the heck out of these games and make the entire FCS playoff have to come through either Brookings or Fargo.

Jacks would have been a seed, if we had done what was supposed to, which is beat SIU and especially Mo St. Does anybody else notice that playing NDSU was followed by losses in the following games? SDSU, UNI, YSU, did ANY team win their NEXT GAME AFTER NDSU? K-State did. Any others?

[SF_Rabbit_Fan]

Re: Playoffs

Two things...One, IMO, losing money on one playoff game means very little, but I'm not the one balancing the budget. The athletic department should look at it like this...you want to sell more season tickets (and thus make more guaranteed money every year)...win playoff games...what's the easiest way to win a playoff game...play at home. At this point I think the Jackrabbbits would kick the piss out of any of the non-seeded teams at CAS.

Second thing, and this is a sarcastic shot at the Big Sky, let's get that out of the way now. Maybe the Valley should add some dogsh*t teams to pad the records of the top teams and get more teams in the playoffs and get more seeds. Because of how many teams are in the Big Sky they don't get to play all of the awful teams, but they don't play all of the top teams either. NAU didn't play EWU, but they played 3 of the bottom 4 who have a combined 4 conference wins. Hey, I'd take a second version of Indiana St on Hobo Day versus SIU. Maybe the Jacks would be the #8 seed (or better) then. I would imagine every team in the Valley is begging the Jacks to go for back-to-back wins against the Big Sky to prove this theory right. I know I can't wait/hope to see Montana go to the Fargodome in the quarterfinals.

Joining this discussion way late, but you are on the money with your second point.

If a conference wants teams in the post season, there isn't much room for a middle class in the standings. You need good teams and bad teams. A bunch of .500 teams jumbled in the middle doesn't do anybody any good.

[jackmd]

Re: Playoffs

This is NOT the selection committee's fault. The MVFC, besides NDSU & SDSU failed to perform. UNI failed to perform in MVFC play. Can't finish in 8th (of 10), with a losing conference record and expect to make the play-offs. YSU played pud teams in their OOC. Need more than NEC, low end Patriot, and Pioneer teams for the OOC. Mo St., the #2 team per MVFC criteria lost all 4 OOC's. SIU didn't play a full slate of D-I, thus ended up with only 6 D-I wins.

Butler won the auto-bid of the Pioneer, a non-schollie D-I conference, and the addition of that league led to play-off expansion to 24 teams.

IMHO, NDSU has a pretty reasonably easy road to Frisco. Their first challenge will be vs either a MEAC at-large or a very low rated SoCon AQ. Then Montana has to go to Fargo, rather than NDSU to Missoula. IMHO the first serious challenge to NDSU will come from SELA, who learned from their early season mistakes, and are playing some really good football now.

If MVFC is as good as we think, then SDSU needs to do what SHSU did last year, which is to win the Big Sky championship. If progress through the bracket, SDSU will take out #2, then #1 Big Sky teams, for the opportunity to play, likely vs McNeese.

If there is a team that is in, and shouldn't be, it's the 2x national runner-up, Sam Houston. Two first year transitional teams, Houston Baptist and Incarnate word, and a loss to the other 3 "good" programs in the Southland (plus Texas A&M) - IMHO, the Bearkats are in on last two years reputation rather than this years successes.

I'm not placing blame. The process allows for bias, there is no arguing that. Plenty of so-called experts had 4 or 5 MVFC teams in and SUU out.

The autobid for the Pioneer league and expansion to 24 is a topic for debate. Look where it puts teams this year. EIU gets a free pass to the 3rd round, nice.

[JackrabbitGuy]

Re: Playoffs

The current traveling scenario is better for the Jacks than a home game, followed immediately by a trip to Fargo. If SDSU would have landed a home date, this likely would have placed us in that situation right?

Jackmd is right, we simply have to win more games. With the sustained success that NDSU has had it would best if we can continue to build our program to be in the mix of the top 4 spots. Then bid the heck out of these games and make the entire FCS playoff have to come through either Brookings or Fargo.

[rabidrabbit]

Re: Playoffs

The glaring problem that is being ignored in the regional conversation is the presence of only 2 teams for the best conference in FCS. THIS IS THE PROBLEM PEOPLE. The bias against the midwest teams is pervasive and drives all of these decisions. Tenn St. and Butler shouldn't even be in the playoffs, autobid aside. Butler is not one of the best 24 teams. Big Sky deserved no more than 3 teams. The MVFC could have easily had 5 in and should have had no less than 3.

Regionalization is a fact of FCS life. Once the teams are slotted to be in the playoffs seeding is way more about saving money than being fair. Other than the the top 4 seeds the rest is about cash.

The MVFC powers that be had better start working right now to have greater influence over their peers in the south and on the east coast. End of rant, nothing will change, gotta win more games.

This is NOT the selection committee's fault. The MVFC, besides NDSU & SDSU failed to perform. UNI failed to perform in MVFC play. Can't finish in 8th (of 10), with a losing conference record and expect to make the play-offs. YSU played pud teams in their OOC. Need more than NEC, low end Patriot, and Pioneer teams for the OOC. Mo St., the #2 team per MVFC criteria lost all 4 OOC's. SIU didn't play a full slate of D-I, thus ended up with only 6 D-I wins.

Butler won the auto-bid of the Pioneer, a non-schollie D-I conference, and the addition of that league led to play-off expansion to 24 teams.

IMHO, NDSU has a pretty reasonably easy road to Frisco. Their first challenge will be vs either a MEAC at-large or a very low rated SoCon AQ. Then Montana has to go to Fargo, rather than NDSU to Missoula. IMHO the first serious challenge to NDSU will come from SELA, who learned from their early season mistakes, and are playing some really good football now.

If MVFC is as good as we think, then SDSU needs to do what SHSU did last year, which is to win the Big Sky championship. If progress through the bracket, SDSU will take out #2, then #1 Big Sky teams, for the opportunity to play, likely vs McNeese.

If there is a team that is in, and shouldn't be, it's the 2x national runner-up, Sam Houston. Two first year transitional teams, Houston Baptist and Incarnate word, and a loss to the other 3 "good" programs in the Southland (plus Texas A&M) - IMHO, the Bearkats are in on last two years reputation rather than this years successes.

[Hartford108]

Re: Playoffs

The lesson here should be to show up the next time the Jacks host a playoff game.