Is UMKC coming back?

[Mr_Tibbs]

Re: Is UMKC coming back?

Not sure what Otz has for connections at Loyola, but it’s close to his area in Milwaukee/Chicago. If Loyola’s coach leaves you have to think Otz would be an option. I still think Otz will try to move from SDSU to a power 5 job.

That'd be an odd hire for them in my mind, because the type of basketball that has carried them into the final four is the exact opposite of what Otz would bring to the table. Loyola got this far on their defense (and just hitting their stride at the right time), and I'd imagine they'd want to replicate that with another defensive coach.

[SDSUAlum08]

Re: Is UMKC coming back?

Not sure what Otz has for connections at Loyola, but it’s close to his area in Milwaukee/Chicago. If Loyola’s coach leaves you have to think Otz would be an option. I still think Otz will try to move from SDSU to a power 5 job.

[OldHare]

Re: Is UMKC coming back?

Great analysis. The MVC is just not what it used to be and the private schools don't want the added competition the State schools from the Summit would bring. Need to build on what we have in the Summit. As for playing in the Denny we can't fill the Pentagon for a neutral site game.

Loyola Chicago may be another school looking for a new coach. The history at Loyola may give Moser an advantage in the Big East if there was an opening soon. He took the MVC last to first in 5 years with successful steps in between. He certainly has the Shaka Smart Cinderella type team going into the final week of the season. Moser may go anther year at Loyola. He will be making some short lists for the big payday.

[JACKGUYII]

Re: Is UMKC coming back?

I took a look at the average RPI over the past five years for existing Summit League schools as well as some potential expansion candidates and other similar universities for comparison. I posted the numbers below. A few takeaways: I was surprised at how poorly WIU has been, by far the worse in the league. IPFW is also higher than I expected. Also surprised that SDSU is actually has a slightly higher average RPI than UNI, even with UNI's 11 RPI ranking in 2015.

Not a lot of viable options for expansion that would increase our RPI. I also think it would be very difficult for a team like Augie to consistently be ranked above 200. Look at Drake. Their 5-year average is 248.8 and they have an athletics budget that is double that of Augie. Drake also has an endowment of $197 million vs $67 million for Augie, so it's easier for them to throw money at the athletics department. A dream conference for me would consist of the four Dakota schools, UNO, Drake, UNI, UWGB, UWM and one Minnesota move up. It would be upper-midwest based, and have some competitive programs. Not going to happen, but it would be a great conference for regional rivalries and minimal travel. It would also open up the possibility for a conference tournament in Minneapolis.

Another thought on conference affiliation. I don't foresee an invite from the MVC, but if by some miracle it did happen, we would be foolish not to take it. Even if it meant no conference tournament in Sioux Falls. One realization I had about losing the conference tournament is that it would open up the possibility of having an annual game at the Denny against better programs.

Summit League
SDSU - 91.2
NDSU - 115.8
IPFW - 157
USD - 176.4
Denver - 201.2
ORU - 210
Omaha - 216
WIU - 302.6

UND - 219.4

Expansion Candidates
UNC - 233.8
UMKC - 254

Longshots
NMSU - 77
GCU - 172.4

Other Big Sky Teams
Montana - 155
Weber St - 172.8
Idaho - 208.6
Montana St - 279.2

Iowa and Wisconsin Mid Major Teams
UNI - 97
Drake - 248.8
UWGB - 142.6
UWM - 201.6

Great analysis. The MVC is just not what it used to be and the private schools don't want the added competition the State schools from the Summit would bring. Need to build on what we have in the Summit. As for playing in the Denny we can't fill the Pentagon for a neutral site game.

[LARabbit]

Re: Is UMKC coming back?

I took a look at the average RPI over the past five years for existing Summit League schools as well as some potential expansion candidates and other similar universities for comparison. I posted the numbers below. A few takeaways: I was surprised at how poorly WIU has been, by far the worse in the league. IPFW is also higher than I expected. Also surprised that SDSU is actually has a slightly higher average RPI than UNI, even with UNI's 11 RPI ranking in 2015.

Not a lot of viable options for expansion that would increase our RPI. I also think it would be very difficult for a team like Augie to consistently be ranked above 200. Look at Drake. Their 5-year average is 248.8 and they have an athletics budget that is double that of Augie. Drake also has an endowment of $197 million vs $67 million for Augie, so it's easier for them to throw money at the athletics department. A dream conference for me would consist of the four Dakota schools, UNO, Drake, UNI, UWGB, UWM and one Minnesota move up. It would be upper-midwest based, and have some competitive programs. Not going to happen, but it would be a great conference for regional rivalries and minimal travel. It would also open up the possibility for a conference tournament in Minneapolis.

Another thought on conference affiliation. I don't foresee an invite from the MVC, but if by some miracle it did happen, we would be foolish not to take it. Even if it meant no conference tournament in Sioux Falls. One realization I had about losing the conference tournament is that it would open up the possibility of having an annual game at the Denny against better programs.

Summit League
SDSU - 91.2
NDSU - 115.8
IPFW - 157
USD - 176.4
Denver - 201.2
ORU - 210
Omaha - 216
WIU - 302.6

UND - 219.4

Expansion Candidates
UNC - 233.8
UMKC - 254

Longshots
NMSU - 77
GCU - 172.4

Other Big Sky Teams
Montana - 155
Weber St - 172.8
Idaho - 208.6
Montana St - 279.2

Iowa and Wisconsin Mid Major Teams
UNI - 97
Drake - 248.8
UWGB - 142.6
UWM - 201.6

[goon]

Re: Is UMKC coming back?

What I noticed about Loyola is what a mid major really needs. top level guard play. Which is really what our weakness was. As good as King has been, and DJJ can shoot etc, they just aren't there. If we had a wolters type PG who can score and that is more valuable to cause an upset. Along with good shooters. Finally it takes effort on D and those upsets you can tell that the teams that won, they just flat out out-worked the other teams in the tourney.

[SoDakJack]

Re: Is UMKC coming back?

Loyola is not significantly better than SDSU this season. In fact i think SDSU wins by double digits in Brookings/Sioux Falls and plays them very close in Chicago. The NCAA tourney is all about matchups and getting hot. Obviously they have taken advantage and ran with it. I do agree that playing in the MVC with better nightly competition has prepared them for the tourney.

Did you borrow a pair of blue tinted glasses from someone on this board? Although SDSU was very good this year, I find it hard to believe that we would beat them by double digits. They have the length to match-up with SDSU and can defend.

[BitsTD]

Re: Is UMKC coming back?

The difference IMHO between Loyola and SDSU is the defensive intensity of Loyola is off-the-charts incredible. Kansas State-Loyola is going to be an absolute rockfight, as K-State has ramped up their D as well.

I love that you described something as a "rockfight". That is awesome!

[filbert]

Re: Is UMKC coming back?

I think your last sentence deserves some more emphasis. With the general weakness of every team but SDSU and USD this year we really only played three "tough" games since December.

The difference IMHO between Loyola and SDSU is the defensive intensity of Loyola is off-the-charts incredible. Kansas State-Loyola is going to be an absolute rockfight, as K-State has ramped up their D as well.

[MontanaRabbit]

Re: Is UMKC coming back?

Loyola is not significantly better than SDSU this season. In fact i think SDSU wins by double digits in Brookings/Sioux Falls and plays them very close in Chicago. The NCAA tourney is all about matchups and getting hot. Obviously they have taken advantage and ran with it. I do agree that playing in the MVC with better nightly competition has prepared them for the tourney.

I think your last sentence deserves some more emphasis. With the general weakness of every team but SDSU and USD this year we really only played three "tough" games since December.

[JACKGUYII]

Re: Is UMKC coming back?

Loyola is not significantly better than SDSU this season. In fact i think SDSU wins by double digits in Brookings/Sioux Falls and plays them very close in Chicago. The NCAA tourney is all about matchups and getting hot. Obviously they have taken advantage and ran with it. I do agree that playing in the MVC with better nightly competition has prepared them for the tourney.

I'm glad someone else said this. I would like our chances against Loyola.

[scbison]

Re: Is UMKC coming back?

Loyola is not significantly better than SDSU this season. In fact i think SDSU wins by double digits in Brookings/Sioux Falls and plays them very close in Chicago. The NCAA tourney is all about matchups and getting hot. Obviously they have taken advantage and ran with it. I do agree that playing in the MVC with better nightly competition has prepared them for the tourney.

[thumper_76]

Re: Is UMKC coming back?

Well, I usually pass on reading the “history lesson” posts on this board, but I suppose in this case I’ll bite since your post was directed to me.
What I think we’re seeing with a team like Loyola-Chicago is that once they gained entrance into the MVC they had to “up they’re game” so they say. Just like we would have to if the MVC would come calling and we accepted.
But IMO, there are zero teams in the Summit that the MVC is interested in, so you don’t have to worry about waking up tomorrow and hearing any news about any Summit team joining a conference that has a 2018 Elite 8 participant.
And alas, the folks of SF can’t rest assured the SLT will be in SF for the foreseeable future, or at least as long as the Summit League is still a viable conference.?

We absolutely would have to, especially in the money department. I certainly think that our programs have shown they are more than capable of raising their game to compete where ever they are and I guess I think we could have a much higher ceiling if we are competing in a conference that demands a higher standard to be at the top.


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[thumper_76]

Re: Is UMKC coming back?

So any good teams in the OVC should try to move to the MVFC since its better conference and harder and would raise their profile and be good for their program?

Absolutely, if we would take them I would think it would be a good move for them if they are serious about being a good football program.

So you are saying we should be expecting an invite to the MVC? That is in the damp dream stage at this point and it also behooves me that when there is not Bison envy for the football team there is MVC envy for everything else! Meanwhile, it is a static or declining scenario that we have not built this Summit thing bigger. Keep making improvements and this conference could be an established conference that might bring another good program into the stage. The Summit has moved the center of the conference west. Does that assume the conference is swirling the drain? Rhetorical question for you since we should not have ever been there in the first place. Show me the invitation to the MVC so we can knock out a wall and make a quick exit while the building crumbles behind us. Tell me again how bad the SLT has evolved.

The SLT success has approximately zero to do with any school outside of S.D. What schools outside of USD has stepped up? Both men’s and women’s were pretty close to foregone conclusions as to who was in the title game.

As to the invite, I’m more arguing that if it came we should accept since I saw the thread where apparently the majority of people here would be against it according to when I last saw the poll.


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[UWMandSDSU]

Re: Is UMKC coming back?

My bad...”Media Folk”...but just like the move to D1...if this move ever happened, SDSU would be the evil, selfish devils once again. Dang those days were fun!! As I sit here watching Northern make a run to the D2 National Championship in SF. Awesome atmosphere btw.

Gotcha about media. for what it’s worth I am all for a MVC move.