Summit League Building Boom

[MaddogJack]

Re: Summit League Building Boom

I would say during my years in school 98-2002, most of the NCC games had a larger crowd then the current Summit games. According to the media guide, the average attendance in 1997-98 was 5350. Last years average attendance (the highest since DI) was 3625. Somethings not right. They messed up the sight lines for G.A. to the point that alot of people don't enjoy going. Including me. I only go if I get reserved seats from someone.

I might be part of the problem.

Yeah, me too. In the late 80's and early 90's - we used to be squeezed in on the bleachers, pretty tight. You could barely get a bottle of Southern Comfort between you and your neighbor. Come to think of it, if we had taken out all the bottles - we might have topped 10,000!

Now - I'm like you, I don't mind the chairbacks and I shudder to think of sitting on a bleacher. <<spoiled?>>

[SF_Rabbit_Fan]

Re: Summit League Building Boom

Understand the cost, but a big upgrade needs to be made in restrooms and concessions. With a roll-out where would you construct these amenities?

I agree with you. Don't forget to add suites or box seating to the list of needed upgrades.

I'm just saying it would be a pretty major renovation to install permanent seating (including premium boxes), restrooms, and concessions.

Faced with spending $30 million or $5 million, it becomes a more difficult choice. I'm pulling these numbers from the air, but the idea is that it will not be easy or cheap to renovate the upper level for permanent seating. My dad (and many other South Dakotans) would quickly go into want vs. need mode when the cost of choice A was triple the cost of choice B.

[UWMandSDSU]

Re: Summit League Building Boom

I think I've heard that too. I'm just saying once they start looking at cost, roll out will be attractive because it will be much cheaper. I'm no engineer, but it seems like a MAJOR undertaking to install permanent seating in the upper level.

Understand the cost, but a big upgrade needs to be made in restrooms and concessions. With a roll-out where would you construct these amenities?

[Southeast]

Re: Summit League Building Boom

I sat in the upper sideline bleachers for NDSU this year and felt pretty good about sightlines. The chairbacks behind the benches were fixed so they didn't block views from above. Last year I sat in the baseline upper bleachers, and it was awful. I enjoyed both games, but I won't be paying to sit on the end bleachers again. I would pay to sit in the upper bleachers on the sideline.

How quickly we've forgotten how terrible the sight lines were on the sideline with a standing student section behind the benches. The last time I sat there under that configuration, I couldn't see at least 1/3 of the court. At that time, the upper end bleachers were a much better viewpoint.

Sightlines were better, but not that much better in bleacher packed Frost. I had terrible views for some USD games back in the day when people were crammed standing at the railings and walking by on 3 foot wide concourses. And there was no video board to try to watch what you couldn't see either.

I sat in the sideline bleachers for NDSU also, and "sightlines" did not cross my mind once because I could see the whole court fine. I was in the top row, however - but way down even with the baseline on the end. I love those top row seats. Built in back rest, no one's knees in your back, close enough to the action in a small arena, and you can stand as much as you want without bugging anyone.

[SF_Rabbit_Fan]

Re: Summit League Building Boom

I have no inside information but I thought I had heard it is going to be permanent seating that way a new concourse, bathrooms and concessions can be installed underneath? I think JacksFan#1 awhile back gave an overview of the new configuration.

I think I've heard that too. I'm just saying once they start looking at cost, roll out will be attractive because it will be much cheaper. I'm no engineer, but it seems like a MAJOR undertaking to install permanent seating in the upper level.

[UWMandSDSU]

Re: Summit League Building Boom

I would actually be pretty surprised if the upper level becomes permanent seating. Roll out seating would be much cheaper, I would think.

I have no inside information but I thought I had heard it is going to be permanent seating that way a new concourse, bathrooms and concessions can be installed underneath? I think JacksFan#1 awhile back gave an overview of the new configuration.

[SF_Rabbit_Fan]

Re: Summit League Building Boom

The previous old wooden bleachers that were starting at the court level and didnt go up as high as all the replacement bleachers did. so when students were standing it was not much different then what it is now when the chairback group sits. however when they stand now with the higher bleachers it makes it harder to see and back with the old wooden bleachers if the students were sitting or not packing the whole section it was minimal at most, only packed games would it really be an issue for blocking the upper levels view. but those games most fans were probably standing anyway. I totally feel for those that its not as easy or try to sit most of the game, but for most fans probably still most games where fine. Sitting baseline upper sections were rarely a problem before

You raise a good point.

IMO, the student sections should have been lowered and loaded from floor level. This would solve sightlines in the baseline upper sections. As I said before, I don't think the sideline upper is that bad today and they've added a bunch of chairbacks for season ticket holders.

I think if the athletic department had the money, they would have done a total renovation instead of piecing together the arena one phase at a time. As it is, they have done the best they could with the resources available.

I would actually be pretty surprised if the upper level becomes permanent seating. Roll out seating would be much cheaper, I would think.

[goon]

Re: Summit League Building Boom

Just wondering, if anyone has any idea of what the "supposed" improvements to Frost Arena will or would look like?

I don't suppose there are any diagrams or anything along those lines yet...still building the outdoor facility, and yet to start on the FB stadium.

Just wondering if anyone had any sort of "insider info" on what sort of changes they are considering. With the women's BB and Volleyball team rooms and office set right in the hallway to the West side of the arena...it would be difficult to "expand" in any way...and they will probably need to "expand" to make any sort of substantial change to what is already been done.

All i have heard is to put all permanant seating on the top more like a bowl where it fills in the corners, so it would be chair back not bleachers, not sure the lower level, probably level them as pull out seating so they can keep using the floor space. I thought the talk was after indoor practice is built, that the track upstairs isnt needed anymore so it would be taken out for permantant seating. I am sure there have been many discussions on what could or should happen. my guess is they will try to use the space as best they can without changing the footprint or expanding the arena. frankly, i think the whole thing should be gutted, and a full permanant bowl seating similar to what the IUPUI new arena would have. floor to ceiling. Also have to find way to get more consession space too.

[da_coach]

Re: Summit League Building Boom

Just wondering, if anyone has any idea of what the "supposed" improvements to Frost Arena will or would look like?

I don't suppose there are any diagrams or anything along those lines yet...still building the outdoor facility, and yet to start on the FB stadium.

Just wondering if anyone had any sort of "insider info" on what sort of changes they are considering. With the women's BB and Volleyball team rooms and office set right in the hallway to the West side of the arena...it would be difficult to "expand" in any way...and they will probably need to "expand" to make any sort of substantial change to what is already been done.

[goon]

Re: Summit League Building Boom

I sat in the upper sideline bleachers for NDSU this year and felt pretty good about sightlines. The chairbacks behind the benches were fixed so they didn't block views from above. Last year I sat in the baseline upper bleachers, and it was awful. I enjoyed both games, but I won't be paying to sit on the end bleachers again. I would pay to sit in the upper bleachers on the sideline.

How quickly we've forgotten how terrible the sight lines were on the sideline with a standing student section behind the benches. The last time I sat there under that configuration, I couldn't see at least 1/3 of the court. At that time, the upper end bleachers were a much better viewpoint.

Sightlines were better, but not that much better in bleacher packed Frost. I had terrible views for some USD games back in the day when people were crammed standing at the railings and walking by on 3 foot wide concourses. And there was no video board to try to watch what you couldn't see either.

The previous old wooden bleachers that were starting at the court level and didnt go up as high as all the replacement bleachers did. so when students were standing it was not much different then what it is now when the chairback group sits. however when they stand now with the higher bleachers it makes it harder to see and back with the old wooden bleachers if the students were sitting or not packing the whole section it was minimal at most, only packed games would it really be an issue for blocking the upper levels view. but those games most fans were probably standing anyway. I totally feel for those that its not as easy or try to sit most of the game, but for most fans probably still most games where fine. Sitting baseline upper sections were rarely a problem before

[SF_Rabbit_Fan]

Re: Summit League Building Boom

Regardless Frost is not as good of an overall fan experience IMO. having the games on TV occasionially helps people watch it, but doesnt enhance the in house game day experience. Just because some season ticket holders and donors were unhappy with their seats dont really make it ok to ruin the sight lines for the upper level, which is obviously critical for fans to enjoy the game, if they cant see the court as well because the seats in the lower level are raised up to high, that is a serious issue. hopefully the next round of renovations fixes these problems. I am skeptical it will.

I sat in the upper sideline bleachers for NDSU this year and felt pretty good about sightlines. The chairbacks behind the benches were fixed so they didn't block views from above. Last year I sat in the baseline upper bleachers, and it was awful. I enjoyed both games, but I won't be paying to sit on the end bleachers again. I would pay to sit in the upper bleachers on the sideline.

How quickly we've forgotten how terrible the sight lines were on the sideline with a standing student section behind the benches. The last time I sat there under that configuration, I couldn't see at least 1/3 of the court. At that time, the upper end bleachers were a much better viewpoint.

Sightlines were better, but not that much better in bleacher packed Frost. I had terrible views for some USD games back in the day when people were crammed standing at the railings and walking by on 3 foot wide concourses. And there was no video board to try to watch what you couldn't see either.

[SF_Rabbit_Fan]

Re: Summit League Building Boom

You also had more seats with bleachers, allowing those USD/Augie games to really inflate the average attendence numbers for those years. TV/video coverage is another difference. Back then, if you were not in the gym there was typically no other way to see the game. The past is the past. We are not going back to more bleachers, moving the students back to the sideline, or sticking the media up in the rafters. Finally, if you skipped out on going to Frost the last couple years because of what you perceive as "bad sight lines" then wow did you ever miss out!

I agree. There was nothing like a USD or Augie game in Frost back then. Other games weren't that much better than they are now, IMO.

[goon]

Re: Summit League Building Boom

You also had more seats with bleachers, allowing those USD/Augie games to really inflate the average attendence numbers for those years. TV/video coverage is another difference. Back then, if you were not in the gym there was typically no other way to see the game. The past is the past. We are not going back to more bleachers, moving the students back to the sideline, or sticking the media up in the rafters. Finally, if you skipped out on going to Frost the last couple years because of what you perceive as "bad sight lines" then wow did you ever miss out!

Regardless Frost is not as good of an overall fan experience IMO. having the games on TV occasionially helps people watch it, but doesnt enhance the in house game day experience. Just because some season ticket holders and donors were unhappy with their seats dont really make it ok to ruin the sight lines for the upper level, which is obviously critical for fans to enjoy the game, if they cant see the court as well because the seats in the lower level are raised up to high, that is a serious issue. hopefully the next round of renovations fixes these problems. I am skeptical it will.

[MontanaRabbit]

Re: Summit League Building Boom

Apparently they also play hockey there which pushes the seating too far from the floor,especially the 2 ends. Omaha has the same issue.

I was more referring to the actual structure of the building. It's sure looks like a "Morton" type building.

[Southeast]

Re: Summit League Building Boom

Frost was awesome back in the day, I do wish they would have kept bleachers to the floor on the end lines (if that is even allowed in D-I hoops). But some things needed to be updated. I don't think its fair to compare attendance, D-I tickets cost more, most of the games are against teams that have little name recognition, and few double headers. When it was the NCC, you had regional games, Fri-Sat. double headers, and regional games. If you were a Mankato grad living it Sioux Falls, you might make the trip up the road, where now you are not going, etc.

You also had more seats with bleachers, allowing those USD/Augie games to really inflate the average attendence numbers for those years. TV/video coverage is another difference. Back then, if you were not in the gym there was typically no other way to see the game. The past is the past. We are not going back to more bleachers, moving the students back to the sideline, or sticking the media up in the rafters. Finally, if you skipped out on going to Frost the last couple years because of what you perceive as "bad sight lines" then wow did you ever miss out!