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Mavericks#1
09-05-2004, 12:26 AM
You are probably thinking that I going to rub your face in this horrible loss. Not true. Today is my birthday and I am in a fairly good mood. One the bright side your womens soccer team played Creighton tougher than I thought they would. The score at half was 0-0. I was not at the game but it sounds as if big jake was and he seems to think that it was more lobsided than the score would indicate. One the down side your volleyball team has lost to two D2 schools. UNK swept them in three games.
Your football team seems to have some big problems. Yes, UNO lost today, but not like that. I see little hope for your football team. I actually thought this game and the Southern Utah game were the D1 games that you had a chance of winning. Now I am not so sure.
The question that I have for you rabbitt fans is Can you handle all this losing for an extended period of time. Your athletic program has such a great tradition of winning that I wonder how long you will accept the losing. If you think the losing will go away you are kidding yourself. Sure you might have some success at D1. But is it worth all the losing. Big Jake and myself have sat through some horrible losing seasons, while you guys have not. Trust me when I say that winning is a hell of a lot more fun than losing. You say us UNO fans are jeolous of your move to D1. I can honestly say that I wouldn't want UNO to go D1 because I wouldn't want to go through all that losing again. Now that we are winning I don't care if we are D1 or D2. We still get to compete against D1 schools. Today we beat Drury 3-0 in soccer. Two years ago we beat San Jose State in Mens baskeball, but I know that would not be the norm.
Contrary to popular belief, I hope that you win some D1 games because i know it will improve you spirirts. I am just curiuos to see how you handle losing on a frequent basis. You say it won't be a problem, but I predict that it will wear you down. Have a nice day

SDSUFAN
09-05-2004, 05:31 AM
Mav No1.

We can handle it. Thats why NCAA gives each provisional member 5 years to get their programs competitive. How we bounce back against a quality D2 school, Winona State, will be a key. As Hank Williams Jr. says," Are you ready for some Football? I am home opener next week. Come up and join us. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

BTW, Happy Birthday and keep that birthday mood going until next year.

jackmd
09-05-2004, 06:32 AM
Come on Maverick we need someone to focus our frustration on and you come back with this? I couldn't be more disappointed but I will recover. No doubt losing will wear on all of us and I can't predict what the attitudes of those in support and oppossed and more improtantly indifferent about the move will be after a potentially brutal first couple of years. I suspect staunch supporters like most of us here will hang in there. My fear is that those undecided about the move will stray from the Jacks to lesser schools in the state. If this happens I guess we just have to win back the fans. I really thought we could compete with Davis and boy was I wrong. New week, new team, first DI game at Coughlin. Wish I could be there.

bigjake
09-05-2004, 06:41 AM
IN theory people think they can handle it until they have to actually do it. In the early 90's I remember sitting thru consecutive 1-10 fb seasons and 4-23 bb seasons. I love college sports and I can take it but the majority of fans didn't come out which is what will happen at most schools.
Also, sdsu just can't expect to compete with 38 scholarships against 63. They need to ramp up to 63 now not later. UNo cut scholies and things went to hell in the late 80's. It was only after they restored them that good times returned. Also, facilities upgrades occurred at the same time.
Sure, you will probably beat winona at home. They fund about 18 scholarships but to get worked by another provisional d1 team like davis just tells you where you stand.
But your soccer team did compete ok and probably will eventually do ok in d1. But in the money sports (fb and bb) where there is more incentive to be good that is where the real problems will be.
It will be interesting to see how the big sky will look at sdsu after just getting mauled all year long in every sport. Then they look at UNC and NDSU who will do well in at least fb and that would make picking you that much harder. Good luck.
I plan to write my thoughts all year long and I plan to follow you closely. BC if you have success (and I am not ruling that out eventually) then I plan to jump on the 1aa bandwagon for UNO. But let's make you the guineau pigs.

Mavericks#1
09-07-2004, 04:02 AM
Rabbitt fans,

I have to give you credit that you have noticed that your football team lacks team speed. I couldn't agree with you more. My question to you is will you be able to recruit team speed to Brookings. I know you will try and convince me that you can, but I will believe it when I see it. Here is what I see. First of all you have to get coaches who can recruit. It sounds as if your football coach knows the game but is not a players coach. This will hurt, your coach needs to be a master salesman who can get a bunch of inner city kids to believe that Brookings South Dakota is a place they need to be. In my opinion this will not be easy. Sure Coach Nagy can get one or two every now and then. But for football you need a lot more and your basketball team has good facilities and a rich tradition where your football team does not. Second of all your football facilities need major, I repeat major upgrades. Kids today are impressed by where they are going to practice and play. There is a reason why Nebraska is dumping 50 million into their football facilities. They need to keep up with the rest of the Big Twelve. You at least need to have some type of plan in place which to my knowledge you do not.
Also if you do get the inner city kids to come to Brookings, are you ready for the problems these kids will bring. You had a incident earlier this year and this will be a more common experience if you bring the inner city kids in.
Coach Callahan at Nebraska while putting together his staff got coaches who could recruit first and coach second because he knows that no matter how well you coach that if you don't have the athletes it won't matter. This is the type of staff that you need to build at SDSU. Otherwise last saturday's game won't be the last 52-0 game that you see.
This post was not meant to be mean spirited.I am just calling them like I see them and trying to be a realist. I am very skeptical whether your football program can pull it off. It will take a lot of hard work and much money and some people who have some foward thinking. I will be interested to here your opinions. Later days.

Mavericks #1

bigjake
09-07-2004, 05:51 AM
Sometimes my points have been wrong but your whole thesis that you can compete at d1 has been wrong thus far, too. You can always claim victory by saying that it is a long term process and the jury is out but the fact remains that you are getting slaughtered in fb, soccer and beaten involleyball and your brethren in fargo notice this. I was right that you have stadium problems and right that you aren't funding 63 scholarships in fb ( i know you are planning to but I want proof) and right that you were going to struggle in your programs. You can try to shout me down with all your "facts" but the odds are the BSC isn't going to take some 3-8 fb team and a bb team that probably won't win more than one or 2 d1 basketball games all year. NDSU has won a d1 soccer game - you are still waiting for your first goal.
Maverick1 makes good points - you people will never let that influence you bc you will always think it won't happen to you. Rabbit 89 - just ask the people in KC who follow the Roos how easy it is to transition to d1.
I know you are a landgrant school with a huge name with incredible support, blah, blah, blah, but when you get past that nonsense you still have to have the horses and you have a long long way to go.
Get on Bisonville and read some of their comments. I am not the only one who has reservations about sdsu.
You better be worried about your own team's terrible performances instead of some guy's opinion in omaha.
I think I will go again this weekend to see your soccer team play and see if they can get that first goal this weekend. They may be approaching a record for scoreless minutes - I don't know. You can straighten me out on that,too.
Maverick 1 - if you ever have time listen from 4-6pm to the sports talk show on kwsn am 1230 on the internet. You will see we are by far not the only ones who are skeptical about sdsu's move - there is a ton of skepticism among callers to that show. It is just on this site you have about a dozen high intensity fans who will always try to "shout you down" with their version of the truth. So far their version is looking a little shakey although I know it is a five year process at least. But it is a one year process before the big decision and so far they would get a failing grade from this professor.

SDSUFAN
09-07-2004, 07:22 AM
Gee if MAV NO1 and Big Jake knew what they were talking about, then I would worry about what two guys in Omaha think. Until then well keep on checking in.

89rabbit
09-07-2004, 07:59 AM
Thank you two for your insight and concern. I know your opionions are driven by love, not jealousy (that we are D-I, that we have fan support, that we have had more National Championships in Men's Cross Country then UNO has had in all sports, Men's and Women'sput together), fear (for the health of the NCC, and the timing of your jump to the MIAA), or frustration over being left behind. ::)

I have to ask why the special attention to SDSU? I never see you on the UNC board, you are hardly over at the NDSU board (unless it is to write about the Rabbits). Why the love?

To be honest, and I think I speak for most SDSU fans, we really didn't care about UNO when you where in the same Division and same Conference as our Jackrabbits. We certainly care about you less now. So it confuses me why you two are such haters ???

I also think I speak for most when I say that we don't care about your uninformed opinions of what we need to do. Your premises are flawed even if they were genuine (which they are not), so they are irrelevant.

Finally I have to mention a recent "theory" of yours that has made me laugh harder then any other. That is that SDSU's move to D-I is some sort of test for UNO. That we are your guinea pig. HA You and I both know that UND will move up some day. You and I both know that UN-L (University of Nebraska) will never let you move up. You will always be what you are, a commuter school that is second best in it's own city (behind Creighton). I am sure it is frustrating. Maybe that explains the hatred.

bigjake, I know that UNO doesn't have a fan board but come on you are a top 15 poster on our board. Kind of sad really. :'( Keep up the good work, the FES needs more supporters like you and Mavericks#1. You are always good for a laugh, especially when you are trying to "help" us out. ;)

Go State! ;D

Mike_H
09-07-2004, 09:41 AM
Maverick 1 - if you ever have time listen from 4-6pm to the sports talk show on kwsn am 1230 on the internet. You will see we are by far not the only ones who are skeptical about sdsu's move - there is a ton of skepticism among callers to that show.

Just a correction. The show is on from 3pm to 5pm Central time.

One other point. One reason for some of the questions about the move have been the way it has been sold. Many people were told by administrators that the increase in scholarships would provide for additional opportunities for South Dakota kids. I may be wrong on this, but I don't see the kid from Centerville or Mobridge getting faster because State is now D1. There is no question that to make the move and be competitive, State has to expand their recruiting base. I think Stig and the staff have tried to do that over the last couple of years, and will continue to do so in the future. The number of football recruits to State from South Dakota has dropped a lot the last two years. That is by design. But some SDSU boosters are upset by the fact there will be more out of staters on the roster. They liked seeing the kid that played nine man football make good at the college level. This is where a lot of the division has come from.

One game, one week, and even one season does not make, break, or define this move. But it does help define the folks that are for it and those that are against it.

SDSUFAN
09-07-2004, 10:32 AM
Mike H

Thanks for setting the record straight on a number of things. It sounds different, but then again I respect what you say since you do talk to more people than what are callers on your show. The fact that my mind is made up has had the building of a conclusive state of mind reguarding SDSU move to D1AA. ;D :-X

I think SDSU has had better luck recruiting in the Omaha area because we are in the reclassification process to D1AA. The only recuit lost so far from Omaha is Adrian Headon, who followed Eric Eidness to SWMU. We will see a bunch more from Omaha in the next few years and dont for a second think that this does not bother Pat Behrns at UNO. It bothers him a bunch and he is about the only coach at UNO that wants to move up to D1AA. So much for a slow moving Jackrabbit squad. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

89rabbit
09-07-2004, 11:36 AM
One reason for some of the questions about the move have been the way it has been sold. Many people were told by administrators that the increase in scholarships would provide for additional opportunities for South Dakota kids. I may be wrong on this, but I don't see the kid from Centerville or Mobridge getting faster because State is now D1. . .

. . .They liked seeing the kid that played nine man football make good at the college level. This is where a lot of the division has come from.



Mike,

I can see how fans might be upset if they interpreted our move to D-I this way. The way I interpreted what the administration was selling was different. I interpreted our move to D-I as giving D-I caliber South Dakota athletes an opportunity to play "at home". An opportunity they did not have before our move to D-I. I see this as a plain and simple misunderstanding. It happens every day.

On the second part of your quote, I am at a loss on that one. I am not sure I understand the feeling of loss that some fans seem to be experiencing. SDSU's move to D-I did not take anything away from them. There are still plenty of opportunities for a kid who played 9 man football to go make good at the college level. He can go to USD, Augie, Northern, SD Tech, DSU, etc. Or if he is good enough he can play D-I ball at SDSU. All SDSU has done is given the sports fan, and a higher caliber athlete an additional choice. How can giving people more choices be bad? I am puzzled.

Go State! ;D

P.S. A quick check of the rosters of SDSU and "South Dakota's Team" USD offered up some interesting facts.

SDSU Total Roster: 90
SD Kids: 33
% SD Kids: 37%

USD Total Roster: 97
SD Kids: 31
% SD Kids: 32%

Mike_H
09-07-2004, 11:51 AM
89: Check my entire quote. Why would an SDSU booster be happy to see a kid go to Augie, the U, or USF?

Also, apples to apples comparisons, please. SDSU's roster of freshmen and redshirt freshmen compared to the same for USD. That would actually reflect when the change of direction took place.

Alumguy
09-07-2004, 11:53 AM
I don't know of one SDSU administrator who ever claimed that the move to Division I would create more opportunities for SD kids. I do believe Fred Oien was quoted as saying the move to Division I would create a new opportunity for SD kids with Division I talent. Oh, and the equestrian program will create new opportunities for SD kids.

As far as people seeing SD kids play, there's Augie, Northern, Tech, Sioux Falls College, DSU, BHSU, and USD. According to the USD football coach, he likes SDSU's move because now he can recruit more SD kids than ever to USD. Heck, last year he signed 36 kids, many from SD.

Oh, here's a list of great former SDSU athletes:

Jim Langer
Sid Bostic
Tom Black
Adam Timmerman
Chris White
Pete Retzlaff
Steve Heiden
Chuck Loewen
Steve Lingenfelter (King Ling)
Bruce Klostermann
Dean Krogman
Melissa Pater
Jodi Bergemann
Angie Swenson
Kurt Meister
Stacie Cizek

Heck, I could go on and on. Do you know what they have in common? None are from South Dakota.

SDSU is a university, not a Hutterite Colony.

89rabbit
09-07-2004, 12:23 PM
89: Check my entire quote. Why would an SDSU booster be happy to see a kid go to Augie, the U, or USF?

Also, apples to apples comparisons, please. SDSU's roster of freshmen and redshirt freshmen compared to the same for USD. That would actually reflect when the change of direction took place.

Why would a SDSU fan want inferior athletes to represent his team? Are the fans in question fans of SDSU or South Dakota high school athletes? I as a fan care about the name on the front of the jersey (SDSU) rather then on the back (kid's name).

Second point I was using your statement as my starting point . . . Mike_H wrote: "The number of football recruits to State from South Dakota has dropped a lot the last two years." If it has dropped and we still have more South Dakota kids then "South Dakota's Team" what is the problem?

Go State! ;D

Mike_H
09-07-2004, 12:50 PM
I am not sure why you guys are arguing with me. This is not an argument or meant in that way. I am trying to point out the arguments of others. I know, I know, it's time to trot out the "if they don't think this is a good idea then they truly aren't a Jackrabbit fan" logic. I was simply explaining to Maverick or whoever what some of the discussions have been about.

But while we are on the subject, do you also not think there are fans of SDSU because guys like Mark Schultz, Mark Tezlaff, Denny Womoldorf, Doug Miller, Adam Vinitieri, and Matt Jones HAVE come from South Dakota? If you want a naming contest of greats from the state, we can move that to a different thread. And 89, what do you care about the high school kids in this state? You moved away long ago. That is another example of the arguments you might find that has made this such a lively debate, and the perfect time to host a sports talk show! And Alumguy, you are wrong about your quotes. Backers were told that additional scholarships for football would mean SDSU could take a chance on a South Dakota kid that they might not have been able to take before because they could buy him some time to develop.

I know you guys have been waiting to jump on something since the final whislte blew Saturday night, but this is a little misguided.

89rabbit
09-07-2004, 02:16 PM
Mike I am not arguing with you. I am trying to understand and win over that fan (s) that you brought up. I think my questions and comments are legitimate. Donít try and pooh pooh my arguments by saying that I have impugned any true Rabbit fans. I am a Minnesota Vikings Fan and I love SDSU. Should I become a Rams, Patriots, or Browns fan simple because they have SDSU guys on their roster? How big of a Vikings fan would I be if I jumped ship because of a single guy. Again I root for the name on the front not the back. Does that make me right? I donít know, but from the Vikingís stand point it probably does. Same is true for the Rabbits, great to get the local kids that have the talent but I donít want a guy on the team just because he is from South Dakota.

Mike you ask what do I care about high school kids in South Dakota. Kind of a tough statement without knowing me. I have lots and I do mean lots of high school aged relatives all over South Dakota and I still keep up with SD high school sports. If you think I have lost touch with my South Dakota roots then you donít know me very well. I was born in SD and am very proud of it. I am in South Dakota about every 6 weeks or so. One of the reasons I am so passionate about SDSU is I want nothing but the best for my home state and the people who live in it. I want opportunity in South Dakota so that people like myself could stay in the place that they love so much and do what they want to do. So donít imply that I donít have a right to speak my mind about this subject just because I don't live in South Dakota currently. >:(

Go State! ;D

Alumguy
09-08-2004, 07:31 AM
Maybe I'm wrong on the SDSU administrators, Mike-H, I just don't remember that being said. You probably have the interview tapes to prove me wrong. If that was said to the general public then I can understand why some folks would be upset.

jackmd
09-08-2004, 09:56 AM
I am not sure why you guys are arguing with me. This is not an argument or meant in that way. I am trying to point out the arguments of others. I know, I know, it's time to trot out the "if they don't think this is a good idea then they truly aren't a Jackrabbit fan" logic. I was simply explaining to Maverick or whoever what some of the discussions have been about.

But while we are on the subject, do you also not think there are fans of SDSU because guys like Mark Schultz, Mark Tezlaff, Denny Womoldorf, Doug Miller, Adam Vinitieri, and Matt Jones HAVE come from South Dakota? If you want a naming contest of greats from the state, we can move that to a different thread. And 89, what do you care about the high school kids in this state? You moved away long ago. That is another example of the arguments you might find that has made this such a lively debate, and the perfect time to host a sports talk show! And Alumguy, you are wrong about your quotes. Backers were told that additional scholarships for football would mean SDSU could take a chance on a South Dakota kid that they might not have been able to take before because they could buy him some time to develop.

I know you guys have been waiting to jump on something since the final whislte blew Saturday night, but this is a little misguided.

Mike_H,

Take your lumps. When you say/type things like you have you can expect replies like you have gotten. Hiding behind the premise that you are representing others view won't fly (at least not with me). I left the state of SD for my medical training because in state there was nothing available that was similar to the training outside of SD. I still consider SD my home and always will and I hope to return in the future. I think 89 shares similar sentiments and does genuinely care about high school kids in SD. Both those with athletic and academic aspirations. I don't care how you slice it SDSU's move to DI will be beneficial for all those mentioned.

It may not be readily obvious in the short-term and for the typical South Dakotan it hard to see past that. Therefore, it becomes even more important for those who can look ahead and aspire to strongly encourage support of SDSU. I have many arguments to support these statements but this forum is not the ideal place to express them and therefore I will yield. Its like preaching to the choir around here.

Mike_H
09-08-2004, 12:47 PM
Don't worry, Doc, I have remained lump free during my entire stay here. I am sorry if you do not like my style of writing. I can be more direct if you like. I do not hide behind any premise. You should know that by now. Would you like me to name the folks that I have talked to so they can be cheap shotted by folks that don't use their real names? I would not do that anymore than I would bring your name up in conversation when you are not around to defend yourself or make your points known. That does not make your points any less valid, and I do use the information I find here when talking either on the air or to the general public. I just know that people tend to judge the person and not the message, especially on boards like this.

Alumguy: yes, I do, and that is why I want you guys to know what some of the public is thinking, and what you are up against.

SDSUFAN
09-08-2004, 03:22 PM
geez Mike maybe we should quit now and go back to d2 and be just like those wunderful yotes.